Army cosisting of Vanguard units: any good?

[Hannibal]

Hi all,

 

I´m thinking about getting a Vanguard themed Marines army, ie the army shall consist of mainly PHOBOS Marines. Do you think that this will be any good?

[Tokugawa]

Is Vanguard veterans vanguard?

 

Unlike gravis themed list, full phobos themed list is much more casual/fun focused, and usually can't compete with mainstream armies.

 

That is because they don't have hard-hitting melee unit options, and whether their long range firearms(laser eliminators?) hit hard is also rather questionable.

[Karhedron]

I believe not. I agree with Tokugawa that a Vanguard army has insufficient melee power and heavy firepower. There are very few multi-damage weapons in the Vanguard list.

[Ragnar69]

Maybe if you include some fast non-phobos units like Vanguard vets, inceptors and attack bikes.

Phobos troops with the WL trait to redeploy aren't bad at all.

If you want to keep the look consistent, you could probably convert all firstborn units with Reiver bodies.

[greatcrusade08]

Im trying this, in the run up to LGT in December.

Feel free to join in the discussion and watch my progress and lessons learned.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369969-um-tenth-company-blog/

Edited April 19, 2021 by greatcrusade08

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I think you can make a good list with a strong Phobos theme, because the troop options are both good, the HQs are fine, and invictors/eliminators are decent. You'll just have to look elsewhere for anti-tank and brawlers. Eradicators and Redemptors would be good choices to plug the gaps, if you aren't sticking to just primaris units than attack bikes, vanguard vets, and terminators would work as well.

[Spleenex]

I tried to make a mostly Phobos list work (all theoryhammer, mind you - not played in ages for obvious reasons), but as others have said, I had a hard time getting sufficient damage output either at range or up close. Most of the Phobos units are really there to provide special abilities rather than raw damage output. Infiltrators, for example, are really great troops - they can lock down huge portions of the board from deepstrike, they can be deployed on/near midfield objectives, and they allow you to spread out with their ability to use (Phobos) character auras if you take the comms array wargear. But they need some additional backbone in terms of output, as they have no weapon options, and their basic gun is essentially just a slightly upgraded standard bolter. This is compounded by the fact that if you take mainly/all Phobos troops, you're pushed pretty strongly towards Phobos commanders/characters, as many of their abilities are keyed specifically to Phobos troops, but these characters again lack the punch of other options. 

What I ended up doing was a hybrid list. My 1000-point list has a Phobos Lt. as warlord, a couple units of infiltrators, a unit of Intercessors with fist, 2x MM attack buggies, an Invictor warsuit, inceptors, and a unit of eliminators, with the option to put a Chaplain or Apothecary in with the Intercessors if I ditch one of the ATVs. Still maintains a lot of the speed and flexibility of a Phobos list, but with much more damage output.

A 100% Phobos list might be a lot more viable at the 500-point level where your opponent is less likely to have vehicles or heavy troops.

 

in any case, it's a really cool concept for a list, and if your main goal is being thematic and having fun, I'd say go for it!

[Galron]

You can always have phobos for all the infantry. Yeah as stated your melee will be lacking but its doable. But you can add Invictor warsuits for some melee and first turn in your face-ness. They still fit the theme being integral to the phobos units for heavier support. That said there is nothing preventing you from adding redemptors. Further for AT work, instead of eliminators bring some tried and true vehicles. Space Marines are not hurting for AT vehicles. A squadron of Predators, speedy Sicarians both standard pattern or Venators do decent with lascannon sponsons. Or to keep with the primaris theme, try the new speeders or grav tanks. Not bringing vehicles is a self imposed limitation, I can easily see the phobos units having vehicles for backup once they locate the targets.

[CCE1981]

I keep trying to make lists consisting of six troop choices because I think the Vanguard units have merit. Two units of Infiltrators with Helix Arrays who raise banners in my back line, and prevent units dropping close enough to engage them. Two units of Incursors for mid board objectives deployment and charge into my opponents face and slow him down and/or disrupt him a bit. The last two being Heavy/Intercessors with their assault variant weapon that relieve the Incursors and provide fire support to the deathball.

 

I just find the Phobos Characters to be pretty bad. Taking a Phobos Captain and:or Lieutenant to give Infiltrators a Comms Array to boost a chaff clearing weapon is a huge waist, while Helix Array is a guaranteed ignored failed armor save each turn. Phobos Lieutenants are just hot garbage, it’s obvious that the proofreader had no idea what was going on, the wrong Lieutenant got the grav chutes, and neither have concealed positions, like seriously?

 

I like to have their units supplementing a list, though I consistently struggle to fit their Characters.

[Karhedron]

Eliminators are decent but I prefer the sniper variant as I feel anti-tank is better handled by non-Phobos units. Since most Marine tanks seem rather sup-par in 9th edition, there is often a Heavy slot free to fit a squad in.

[TheNewman]

The best melee you can get in an all-phobos list is probably a Phobos Librarian with an Master Crafted upgrade to his Force Sword, but you need to pick a chapter with good psychic powers because the base Obscurius discipline is [edit] not very good [/edit].

 

...some chapters do have pretty good powers for taking a stab at that, when you get right down to it. That's got at least some play.

[ValourousHeart]

I think if you expand your list to also include scouts, scout bikers and LS Storms, you'll be able to do quite well with a vanguard themed army.  I'm using the term vanguard to refer to forward elements of an army, as opposed to the Vanguard Detachment that focuses on elite choices.

 

The arguments about not having heavy weapons is erroneous.  They are just not the standard Devastator, Hellblasters and Eradicators.  But in the same way that a Ravenwing army gets around not having Devastators, your army can as well.

 

Let's start with Elites.  Each scout squad can take a heavy bolter or missile launcher, I'd opt for the ML.  Your scouts units can do one of two roles very easily.  Snipers with the ML holding objectives, and Bolter / Shotguns in a Storm as a harassment unit.  No reason to not take both in a single unit and combat squad them.

 

Also look at including an Invictor or two.

 

Both scout options leave your Eliminators free to pick Las-fusals.  Which takes care of your heavy supports.  

 

Then for your fast attack Suppressors and scout bike squads.

 

Any of the phobos troops will work.

 

And for HQ choices in addition to the phobos choices I'd also consider the bike characters.