Why the Emperor did not reveal himself until the time he did

[Noctus Cornix]

DAoT Bio-Weapon Emperor was the coolest. 

 

Or the oooooooooold school lore that suggested he was like, the gestalt union of a bunch of really powerful Shamans. That was dope too.

 

I don't really have anything else to say on the subject...... so, yeah. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Noctus Cornix

[Spagunk]

I mean, him being a DAoT weapon AND being the union of a bunch of shamans wouldn't be mutually exclusive. The in-fluff team responsible could have easily done both where in "shamen" could have been the name people gave when the stories were passed down once everything exploded. "Mandatory Volunteers" could have been used in his creation since it's likely the powers that were doing this had no idea what they were messing with.

[lansalt]

I mean, him being a DAoT weapon AND being the union of a bunch of shamans wouldn't be mutually exclusive. The in-fluff team responsible could have easily done both where in "shamen" could have been the name people gave when the stories were passed down once everything exploded. "Mandatory Volunteers" could have been used in his creation since it's likely the powers that were doing this had no idea what they were messing with.

Since "there is no time in the warp", a DAoT weapon against Chaos could be sent back in time to be born at the beginning of civilization among shamans. That could be the explanation for the existence of Perpetuals and the Emperor.

 

And just like Slaanesh manifested before they was born, we have people in the Heresy doing "miracles" before the coming of the God-Emperor.

 

[Spagunk]

Since "there is no time in the warp", a DAoT weapon against Chaos could be sent back in time to be born at the beginning of civilization among shamans. That could be the explanation for the existence of Perpetuals and the Emperor.

 

And just like Slaanesh manifested before they was born, we have people in the Heresy doing "miracles" before the coming of the God-Emperor.

 

 

 

That honestly sounds right in my head. Humans, experimenting with psychers, unwittingly hit the cocktail needed for a warp spawn/chaos god birth. But since it wasn't a natural occurrence, the emperor was an anomaly and unnatural birth and is thus reviled. His "light" being just something of an antithesis to what Chaos usually is or some such.

[lansalt]

Yeah, the fact that he is called "the Anathema" by daemons, that his powers and faith in him just erases Chaos beings and turns the warp into plain inmaterium hints at him being something more than just a powerful psyker.

Besides all this, I find very strange that humankind leaders, scientist, and AIs at peak DAoT didn't learn anything about chaos, daemons, necron anti-warp stones and tomb worlds for all those thousands of years.

The only reasonable explanation is that something big happened, and if that is the case the Emperor, then using another name ("Neoth"?), was involved. And of course must have been a disaster. Hence the Men of Iron war, the Eldar being idiots, etc. and even more damning: By 30k all that is erased from history, censored by dogma, and the Emperor never talks about it.

[Spagunk]

He probably killed everyone around him during his birth. Hell, maybe his birth caused psykers to start popping up everywhere, thus starting all the problems with humanity.

[Just123456]

I mean, him being a DAoT weapon AND being the union of a bunch of shamans wouldn't be mutually exclusive. The in-fluff team responsible could have easily done both where in "shamen" could have been the name people gave when the stories were passed down once everything exploded. "Mandatory Volunteers" could have been used in his creation since it's likely the powers that were doing this had no idea what they were messing with.

The DAOT notion is from a unreliable character. And the Perpetuals have replaced that fluff for the Emperor.

DAoT Bio-Weapon Emperor was the coolest.

 

Or the oooooooooold school lore that suggested he was like, the gestalt union of a bunch of really powerful Shamans. That was dope too.

 

I don't really have anything else to say on the subject...... so, yeah.

 

There are a lot of people who think the Perpetuals such as Oll Persson are more solid than either. Edited June 11, 2021 by Just123456

[Spagunk]

 

I mean, him being a DAoT weapon AND being the union of a bunch of shamans wouldn't be mutually exclusive. The in-fluff team responsible could have easily done both where in "shamen" could have been the name people gave when the stories were passed down once everything exploded. "Mandatory Volunteers" could have been used in his creation since it's likely the powers that were doing this had no idea what they were messing with.

The DAOT notion is from a unreliable character. And the Perpetuals have replaced that fluff for the Emperor.

Bet your remind your teacher that they forgot to assign homework :p

[Just123456]

 

 

I mean, him being a DAoT weapon AND being the union of a bunch of shamans wouldn't be mutually exclusive. The in-fluff team responsible could have easily done both where in "shamen" could have been the name people gave when the stories were passed down once everything exploded. "Mandatory Volunteers" could have been used in his creation since it's likely the powers that were doing this had no idea what they were messing with.

 

The DAOT notion is from a unreliable character. And the Perpetuals have replaced that fluff for the Emperor.

Bet your remind your teacher that they forgot to assign homework :p

The outdated backstory for the Emperor has been replaced. The Perpetuals give him new backstory. The spoilers for Mortis show he was the first psyker and that he attacked the Tower of Babel with Oll Persson. Edited June 12, 2021 by Just123456

[Spagunk]

Hate to say it but that's not new. He's always been portrayed as such. Spoiler alert: Emperor was also jesus, Alexander the great etc.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Spagunk

[Just123456]

Hate to say it but that's not new. He's always been portrayed as such. Spoiler alert: Emperor was also jesus, Alexander the great etc.

 

There is a bit of doubt on him being Jesus, since Oll Persson is Christian.

 

Do you know Oll Persson was one of Jason's Argonauts?

Edited June 13, 2021 by Slips

[Scammel]

Hate to say it but that's not new. He's always been portrayed as such. Spoiler alert: Emperor was also jesus, Alexander the great etc.

This was always a reasonably good fan theory, but Mortis has nixed it, I think - He probably wasn't these people because 

 

Oll rendered Him comatose.

 

Also, given what we know of His character there's little chance He was secretly any other human in world history, because no other human we know of went on to successfully conquer the planet.

 

RE: The DAoT 'weapon' theory - I wouldn't take it at face value given that the source is unreliable, but the very fact that the source interprets His re-emergence in this way tells us that people have some grounds to believe that the Emperor wasn't the one with agency in this. If a group of techno-barbarians stumbled into a cave in search of ancient tech and walk out with an extremely powerful psyker, one might well assume that He's some kind of weapon as opposed to a slumbering ancient.

[Just123456]

Hate to say it but that's not new. He's always been portrayed as such. Spoiler alert: Emperor was also jesus, Alexander the great etc.

This was always a reasonably good fan theory, but Mortis has nixed it, I think - He probably wasn't these people because

 

Oll rendered Him comatose.

 

Also, given what we know of His character there's little chance He was secretly any other human in world history, because no other human we know of went on to successfully conquer the planet.

 

RE: The DAoT 'weapon' theory - I wouldn't take it at face value given that the source is unreliable, but the very fact that the source interprets His re-emergence in this way tells us that people have some grounds to believe that the Emperor wasn't the one with agency in this. If a group of techno-barbarians stumbled into a cave in search of ancient tech and walk out with an extremely powerful psyker, one might well assume that He's some kind of weapon as opposed to a slumbering ancient.

The shaman background was in Realm of Chaos: The Lost and The Damned.

 

And the Perpetuals such as Oll Persson discredit the DAOT notion.

 

The notion is from a thug who was executed for stealing water. She is going to purposefully mislead. She was not buying into what she said.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Slips

[Scammel]

 

 

Hate to say it but that's not new. He's always been portrayed as such. Spoiler alert: Emperor was also jesus, Alexander the great etc.

 

This was always a reasonably good fan theory, but Mortis has nixed it, I think - He probably wasn't these people because

 

Oll rendered Him comatose.

 

Also, given what we know of His character there's little chance He was secretly any other human in world history, because no other human we know of went on to successfully conquer the planet.

 

RE: The DAoT 'weapon' theory - I wouldn't take it at face value given that the source is unreliable, but the very fact that the source interprets His re-emergence in this way tells us that people have some grounds to believe that the Emperor wasn't the one with agency in this. If a group of techno-barbarians stumbled into a cave in search of ancient tech and walk out with an extremely powerful psyker, one might well assume that He's some kind of weapon as opposed to a slumbering ancient.

The notion is from a thug who was executed for stealing water. She is going to purposefully mislead. She was not buying into what she said.

It might not be correct, but given that these are the character's barbed final words (and she knows it) there's no obvious reason for her to contrive something. It's clearly not a throwaway line from the author, either, given the conspicuous placement in the prologue. My overwhelming takeaway is that characters have reason to believe that the Emperor didn't simply announce His presence without some form of trigger, even if few people have the full facts.

[lansalt]

In Cawl's book The Great Work, a C'tan also describes the Emperor as "a weapon"

[Just123456]

In Cawl's book The Great Work, a C'tan also describes the Emperor as "a weapon"

Even if the C'tan was not being deceptive, it might not have even been talking the DAOT. Especially since its perspective is different from a mortal's. The C'tan's words are basically worthless.

Hate to say it but that's not new. He's always been portrayed as such. Spoiler alert: Emperor was also jesus, Alexander the great etc.

This was always a reasonably good fan theory, but Mortis has nixed it, I think - He probably wasn't these people because

Oll rendered Him comatose.

Also, given what we know of His character there's little chance He was secretly any other human in world history, because no other human we know of went on to successfully conquer the planet.

RE: The DAoT 'weapon' theory - I wouldn't take it at face value given that the source is unreliable, but the very fact that the source interprets His re-emergence in this way tells us that people have some grounds to believe that the Emperor wasn't the one with agency in this. If a group of techno-barbarians stumbled into a cave in search of ancient tech and walk out with an extremely powerful psyker, one might well assume that He's some kind of weapon as opposed to a slumbering ancient.

The notion is from a thug who was executed for stealing water. She is going to purposefully mislead. She was not buying into what she said.

It might not be correct, but given that these are the character's barbed final words (and she knows it) there's no obvious reason for her to contrive something. It's clearly not a throwaway line from the author, either, given the conspicuous placement in the prologue. My overwhelming takeaway is that characters have reason to believe that the Emperor didn't simply announce His presence without some form of trigger, even if few people have the full facts.

You don't appear to know a lot about human nature. People will say a lot of things when they know they will die. She wanted to tick off Valdor and was asshurt. She said that in defiance.

 

Below. ADB discredited it.

 

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8zkgxp/just_grabbed_my_first_ever_aaron_dembskibowden/e2tpt6h/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Edited June 13, 2021 by Slips

[lansalt]

ADB "discredited" nothing in that Reddit thread. He just says that Minister Zu thinks that the "Emperor as DAoT weapon" idea is believable, but not him.

 

But then in "The Great Work", a newly awoken C'tan forcibly reads Cawl's memories to make sense of his new situation, and meanwhile says this to him:
 

 

These are the gods of your time. God of Machines. Gods of Chaos. God of... men? Men. It paused, evaluating the word. There is weakness in this era. You are a man. You are weak. Your species is weak, far removed from the original plan of our enemy. These are not gods you worship, this Machine-God, these entities in the warp, this Emperor. We will explain.The first is a lie. The second are emergent consciousnesses caused by etheric disturbance. The third is a weapon. It paused at this. There is war. The... rift? A rift has opened. The purity of reality is polluted. The war continues.  Our  war.  You  fight  it.  But  you  are  weak.  You  are  echoes. Echoes of might. Blots on purity. Glory has left this galaxy.

And that's all. Like many times with 40k, there is delicious ambiguity, unreliable narrators, and room for speculation.  To paraphrase a quote from another galaxy far away from 40k, the "Emperor as DAoT weapon" could be true from a certain point of view. 

Certainly is not out of the question.


 

[Just123456]

ADB "discredited" nothing in that Reddit thread. He just says that Minister Zu thinks that the "Emperor as DAoT weapon" idea is believable, but not him.

 

But then in "The Great Work", a newly awoken C'tan forcibly reads Cawl's memories to make sense of his new situation, and meanwhile says this to him:

 

 

 

 

These are the gods of your time. God of Machines. Gods of Chaos. God of... men? Men. It paused, evaluating the word. There is weakness in this era. You are a man. You are weak. Your species is weak, far removed from the original plan of our enemy. These are not gods you worship, this Machine-God, these entities in the warp, this Emperor. We will explain.The first is a lie. The second are emergent consciousnesses caused by etheric disturbance. The third is a weapon. It paused at this. There is war. The... rift? A rift has opened. The purity of reality is polluted. The war continues. Our war. You fight it. But you are weak. You are echoes. Echoes of might. Blots on purity. Glory has left this galaxy.

 

And that's all. Like many times with 40k, there is delicious ambiguity, unreliable narrators, and room for speculation. To paraphrase a quote from another galaxy far away from 40k, the "Emperor as DAoT weapon" could be true from a certain point of view.

Certainly is not out of the question.

ADB said we can safely say the character is wrong. Pay more attention. Look at the bottom paragraph where he said "But we can pretty safely say he is not that."

 

And the Perpetuals such as Oll Persson discredit that.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Just123456

[Just123456]

Look again. And the C'tan's words are basically worthless, even if it was being truthful, and that is not a given. And the authors said they want to use the Perpetuals such as Oll Persson to explore the Emperor.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8zkgxp/just_grabbed_my_first_ever_aaron_dembskibowden/e2tpt6h/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Edited June 13, 2021 by Just123456

[Captain Idaho]

Just a gentle reminder to be considerate to each other's opinions and it is certainly much easier to get your point across if you provide a quote so people can directly read what you're referencing.

 

Now, a few thoughts on this subject. From my interactions with A D-B I can make a reasonable presumption he doesn't tend to talk in absolutes on many enigmatic subjects.

 

Even the link above isn't an absolute. He mentions Alan Bligh holding the theory the Emperor is a weapon from the DAoT and that we can "pretty safely say" which is leading but not absolute.

 

But that doesn't mean the Emperor can't be a being that existed prior to it and a force tried to use him as a weapon in the DAoT either. Or the interpretation of the word weapon is even literal.

 

After all, you don't have to be a creation or adaption of something or someone to be referred to as a weapon because of your actions or intent or even alliance of ideals.

 

The variables are not absolutes, which is the key here. The Emperor is or isn't a weapon is too black and white.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[lansalt]

Thanks, that was what I was trying to convey.

To add more to the point, the Perpetuals knowing the Emperor before DAoT means nothing on a galaxy where slaaneshi cultists where around before Slaanesh was born. Time has no meaning in the warp.  

Whatever ADB said, years later the same idea is earnestly repeated by another character in another novel by another author.  It's neither proven nor disproven, but it's there.

            

[Just123456]

I should say that the DAOT notion is unlikely, given the Perpetuals and what ADB said. That is what I wanted to say.

 

The C'tan might not have been talking about the DAOT.

Just a gentle reminder to be considerate to each other's opinions and it is certainly much easier to get your point across if you provide a quote so people can directly read what you're referencing.

Now, a few thoughts on this subject. From my interactions with A D-B I can make a reasonable presumption he doesn't tend to talk in absolutes on many enigmatic subjects.

Even the link above isn't an absolute. He mentions Alan Bligh holding the theory the Emperor is a weapon from the DAoT and that we can "pretty safely say" which is leading but not absolute.

But that doesn't mean the Emperor can't be a being that existed prior to it and a force tried to use him as a weapon in the DAoT either. Or the interpretation of the word weapon is even literal.

After all, you don't have to be a creation or adaption of something or someone to be referred to as a weapon because of your actions or intent or even alliance of ideals.

The variables are not absolutes, which is the key here. The Emperor is or isn't a weapon is too black and white.

ADB said his friend was fond of it. He only put it in his book as a cheeky nod. He did not mean they viewed it seriously.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Slips

[Marshal Loss]

 

Just a gentle reminder to be considerate to each other's opinions and it is certainly much easier to get your point across if you provide a quote so people can directly read what you're referencing.

Now, a few thoughts on this subject. From my interactions with A D-B I can make a reasonable presumption he doesn't tend to talk in absolutes on many enigmatic subjects.

Even the link above isn't an absolute. He mentions Alan Bligh holding the theory the Emperor is a weapon from the DAoT and that we can "pretty safely say" which is leading but not absolute.

But that doesn't mean the Emperor can't be a being that existed prior to it and a force tried to use him as a weapon in the DAoT either. Or the interpretation of the word weapon is even literal.

After all, you don't have to be a creation or adaption of something or someone to be referred to as a weapon because of your actions or intent or even alliance of ideals.

The variables are not absolutes, which is the key here. The Emperor is or isn't a weapon is too black and white.

ADB said his friend was fond of it. He only put it in his book as a cheeky nod. He did not mean they viewed it seriously.

 

 

It's just as serious and valid as any other theory in 40k, and you don't speak for ADB. Idaho is completely correct on all counts. Stop looking for certainty in a setting where it literally does not exist. Your constant posts attempting to shoot down anything that doesn't fit with your worldview is becoming rather tiresome, both here and in the BL forum.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[Just123456]

 

 

Just a gentle reminder to be considerate to each other's opinions and it is certainly much easier to get your point across if you provide a quote so people can directly read what you're referencing.

Now, a few thoughts on this subject. From my interactions with A D-B I can make a reasonable presumption he doesn't tend to talk in absolutes on many enigmatic subjects.

Even the link above isn't an absolute. He mentions Alan Bligh holding the theory the Emperor is a weapon from the DAoT and that we can "pretty safely say" which is leading but not absolute.

But that doesn't mean the Emperor can't be a being that existed prior to it and a force tried to use him as a weapon in the DAoT either. Or the interpretation of the word weapon is even literal.

After all, you don't have to be a creation or adaption of something or someone to be referred to as a weapon because of your actions or intent or even alliance of ideals.

The variables are not absolutes, which is the key here. The Emperor is or isn't a weapon is too black and white.

 

ADB said his friend was fond of it. He only put it in his book as a cheeky nod. He did not mean they viewed it seriously.

It's just as serious and valid as any other theory in 40k, and you don't speak for ADB. Idaho is completely correct on all counts. Stop looking for certainty in a setting where it literally does not exist. Your constant posts attempting to shoot down anything that doesn't fit with your worldview is becoming rather tiresome, both here and in the BL forum.

The whole setting runs on unreliable narrators.

 

it's extremely unlikely, as a lot of those things in the setting are. I did not say it was totally impossible.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Just123456

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

 

Just a gentle reminder to be considerate to each other's opinions and it is certainly much easier to get your point across if you provide a quote so people can directly read what you're referencing.

Now, a few thoughts on this subject. From my interactions with A D-B I can make a reasonable presumption he doesn't tend to talk in absolutes on many enigmatic subjects.

Even the link above isn't an absolute. He mentions Alan Bligh holding the theory the Emperor is a weapon from the DAoT and that we can "pretty safely say" which is leading but not absolute.

But that doesn't mean the Emperor can't be a being that existed prior to it and a force tried to use him as a weapon in the DAoT either. Or the interpretation of the word weapon is even literal.

After all, you don't have to be a creation or adaption of something or someone to be referred to as a weapon because of your actions or intent or even alliance of ideals.

The variables are not absolutes, which is the key here. The Emperor is or isn't a weapon is too black and white.

ADB said his friend was fond of it. He only put it in his book as a cheeky nod. He did not mean they viewed it seriously.

 

It's just as serious and valid as any other theory in 40k, and you don't speak for ADB. Idaho is completely correct on all counts. Stop looking for certainty in a setting where it literally does not exist. Your constant posts attempting to shoot down anything that doesn't fit with your worldview is becoming rather tiresome, both here and in the BL forum.

The whole setting runs on unreliable narrators.

 

It's extremely unlikely, as most of those things in the setting are. I did not say it was mathematically impossible.

 

Cool, so stop making stuff up and twisting facts. Where exactly did ADB say that he only put it in his book as a "cheeky nod", or that he "did not mean they viewed it seriously"? AB made it very obvious at events that it was his favourite theory, so quit posting nonsense. You have your views, fine. But that's all they are - opinions.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Marshal Loss