Terminator Captain vs Deathwing Strikemaster

[Romer]

Having returned to GW and 40K when the Dark Angels got re-released again recently, I've been in the process of building and painting my army. With the stuff that I've got, I've got a nice 1000pts army on the way. However I can't help but list build towards that 2000pts mark so help me shape my next purchases. Whilst I'm pretty set on that being some Deathwing Knights, Terminator Librarian and LR Crusader, I've also been looking at the Captain in Terminator armour and the Strikemaster and it feels like I'm missing something. 

 

A Terminator Captain with say a power sword and storm shield is 105pts. The Strikemaster with power sword and stormshield is 100pts. Whilst I no one rerolls 1s for hits and the other 1s for wounds, 5pts seems like a no brainer for an additional attack, wound and leadership?

 

The Terminator Captain already has all the Deathwing and Inner circle rules as far as I can see, so it just seems like a strange costing. Am I looking at this right because I haven't built or played 40k for a long time now. 

 

As an aside to that, I'll be playing for fun whilst I learn the game again, so it doesn't matter I suppose, but is it considering worth it if you're going for a Terminator Captain to splash out for Belial over a regular Captain?

 

Thanks

[CCE1981]

A Captain takes a Power Sword while a StrikeMaster takes a Master-Crafted Power Sword. A Master-Crafted Power Sword does 2 damage instead of 1.

[Galthan Ironsturm]

Captain Can take relic Blade.

 

Strike master is lieutenant with Deathwing spécificities...but in dw force, it's hard top make a place...imho.

[G8Keeper]

It's also worth pointing out that a Terminator Captain unlocks a slot-free Deathwing Command Squad.

[Romer]

A Captain takes a Power Sword while a StrikeMaster takes a Master-Crafted Power Sword. A Master-Crafted Power Sword does 2 damage instead of 1.

 

Ahhh yes, ok that does make sense! However if the captain upgrades for free to a relic weapon I suppose that's  less consequential. 

 

Thanks all.

[davextreme]

Re-rolling wounds and hits in most cases are interchangable, probability-wise, unless you need to be re-rolling supercharged plasma hits. If you do, a Master (Captain) is preferable, but the Deathwing only have a few sources of plasma weapons. If he’s sitting next to Hellblasters or Inceptors, obviously he’ll be helping there.

 

Regardless, I don’t see many cases where you’d want both a Master and a Stikemaster over just one of those + a Librarian or Chaplain.

[bigtrouble]

as far as the math on re-rolls, unless as davextreme points out you want to prevent plasma burn, you are always better off re-rolling the thing with the lower probability simply because the reroll will happen with more frequency, so the relative improvement is greater. rerolling 3+ is a 16% improvement over rerolling a 2+. So consider your opponent and the choice of weapon there.

[Syphid]

Strikemaster can also take a Mace of Absolution, which is just a flat upgrade over a thunder hammer. A Strikemaster with Foe Smiter and Mace has good shooting, melee and a aura, even without a Warlord trait.

[Isual]

as far as the math on re-rolls, unless as davextreme points out you want to prevent plasma burn, you are always better off re-rolling the thing with the lower probability simply because the reroll will happen with more frequency, so the relative improvement is greater. rerolling 3+ is a 16% improvement over rerolling a 2+. So consider your opponent and the choice of weapon there.

 

Both are "re-roll x rolls of 1" so it doesn't matter ;).

[Redbaron997]

For a 5 point difference you get +1 wound, +1 attack, & +1 invurn save so if you can at all find 5 points it's a solid upgrade

[Karhedron]

The captain is limited to 1 per detachment so if you already have a Captain, adding a Strikemaster to give you a different set of rerolls is good. In isolation though, I agree that the captain will usually be the better choice.

[Hannibal]

 

as far as the math on re-rolls, unless as davextreme points out you want to prevent plasma burn, you are always better off re-rolling the thing with the lower probability simply because the reroll will happen with more frequency, so the relative improvement is greater. rerolling 3+ is a 16% improvement over rerolling a 2+. So consider your opponent and the choice of weapon there.

 

Both are "re-roll x rolls of 1" so it doesn't matter .

 

Sorry, this is not true.

 

(1) rerolling ones to hit will will happen more often because you statistically throw more dice "to hit" than "to wound".

(2) even if the number of dice rolled were equal (lets say 3 "to hit" and 3 "to wound") then the probability of success for these rerolls has an impact. The higher the chance to succed on that reroll, the more you will get from it.

[Galron]

Captain. A more solid model. But if you need a side dude thats helping out a shooty unit with lower strength weapons then a strikemaster may be a good utility. But do you really want to spend 100pts on a guy who is hanging back in the rear with plasma guys when you can simply run a greenwing LT to do the same thing for cheaper in a different detachment?

[march10k]

But do you really want to spend 100pts on a guy who is hanging back in the rear with plasma guys?

 

LOL...I do that with Azzy.  I use him to give 4++ and rerolls to DWT with dual plasma cannons.  Most people don't even try to shift them off of their objective, and the plasma has plenty of reach to ensure that they're not standing around looking bored.  With DWK blowing the enemy off of his most heavily defended objective on turn 2, It's uphill sledding for my opponent in the primary objective.  Usually, that DWK strike goes into the enemy backfield, flushing him into the midfield, right into range of the plasma cannons.  And, usually, at least one objective is also in range of the stormbolters, so the DWT campers contribute more than you would think.  

[dice4thedicegod]

 

 

 

 

as far as the math on re-rolls, unless as davextreme points out you want to prevent plasma burn, you are always better off re-rolling the thing with the lower probability simply because the reroll will happen with more frequency, so the relative improvement is greater. rerolling 3+ is a 16% improvement over rerolling a 2+. So consider your opponent and the choice of weapon there.

Both are "re-roll x rolls of 1" so it doesn't matter .

Sorry, this is not true.

 

(1) rerolling ones to hit will will happen more often because you statistically throw more dice "to hit" than "to wound".

(2) even if the number of dice rolled were equal (lets say 3 "to hit" and 3 "to wound") then the probability of success for these rerolls has an impact. The higher the chance to succed on that reroll, the more you will get from it.

No, the proportions will be unchanged. Consider a case study where you are hitting on threes and wounding on fours. You can have either to-hit or to-wound rerolls…

 

To-hit: 28/36 * 18/36 = 0.39

To-wound: 24/36 * 21/36 = 0.39

 

It’s the same.

 

Note: with full rerolls, reroll the hardest one in order to get the greatest shift in odds.

[Karhedron]

dice4thedicegod is correct. If you run the maths, no matter what combination of hit and wound values you use, rerolling 1s on one or the other always leads to the same statistical outcome.

 

I agree that if you have a source of full rerolls, it is bet applied to whichever is harder. Mind you, I don't think anything in our army provides full rerolls to wound so that may be academic.