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3k Army, Getting back in the swing


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8 replies to this topic

#1
Commisar Necros

Commisar Necros

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My friends and I love playing big games of 40k, and I'm finally able to have time to play again! The last time I played regularly was just as fourth edition came out so I'm adapting this list from what models I have to get to 3k and am looking for what to replace/expand/adapt for the new lore. Definitely going to replace the grenade launchers with plasma guns when I can get the bits, was a points issue back then. Maybe a couple more sentinels to grab cheap objectives? Or will the infantry swarm be enough?

 

Then are heavy weapons squads worth it? Would I be better off ditching the squads and adding in a couple basilisks? The board size seems like all my heavy's can get swarmed even with the big screen.

 

Spoiler

Edited by Commisar Necros, 28 May 2021 - 02:58 AM.


#2
sairence

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I don't really play above 2k so I'm not sure what would be best at 3k, but maybe a few remarks...

HWTs are okay for their firepower and cost, their main issue is how squishy they are. Swarming is probably not a big issue with the screening you can do in such a big battle, but more that they can just be picked off. Mortars are okay because you can hide them, but don't expect miracles from them. That said, you have loads of them, which might mitigate that a bit. :P

Baneblades currently are sadly just bad. They are overpriced and fragile to the point where bringing one is actively hindering yourself. :(

If you are bringing that many HWTs + tanks you probably want the tanks all in the Spearhead, as they get ObSec there.

Yarrick is a fun model, but he doesn't really add much to a Cadian force. You'll probably keep him with the tanks and HWTs and they'll already have reroll 1s when they stand still.

And your main struggle is likely going to be board control. You have a lot of firepower, but probably not enough to screen and move out past turn 2. And controlling the middle is key to scoring points in the current mission set.

Finally, in matched play games you have a rule of x, limiting the number of times you can take a single datasheet. For 2k points it's 3, so could bring max 3 HWTs for example. I don't know what it is for 3k or if you and your friend would be applying thst rule.

Also, just as a disclaimer: we have one of the oldest Codexes still kicking around from the start of 8th edition and it really shows in the tools we don't really have.
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#3
Commisar Necros

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So I hadn't heard of the rule of three before so definitely going to look into it while rebuilding the army. The heavy weapons squads are a hold over from when you took 3-5 as a platoon heavy weapons choice, so I have quite a few more than really needed, especially in light of that rule of three. Yarrick is probably going to be a simple lord commissar going forward, but my friend runs a Thraka list and the idea of them fighting was too fun to pass up.

 

Speaking of that game it was a total rout, for most of the reasons you mentioned here. Turn one 30 boys jumped into the screen and dissolved the crusaders, Yarrick, and and infantry squad while a relic zapp cannon one shoted the Baneblade after repositioning it using a stratagem after I though I hid it. I was able to clear the boys away but then a mess of storm boys deep struck and killed all of the veterans behind them, while his Kans on the other flank tore into the infantry screen. After that he held 5 of 6 objectives and contested the other and we called it.

 

I know Orks are melee monsters but the infantry squads have no staying power at all. The veterans got a sneaky shot off with their special weapons, but then same story, dissolved. The Baneblade was a giant chain around my neck that didn't even fire before dying. No invulnerable save and the Zapp guns ap and it was done. In the first small game against Deathguard I was able to use infantry to just control objectives and outnumber him, but against the horde they just stood there and died, or moved up and got swarmed. Part of the problem was deployment, too linear needed to be manipole. Yarrick died, but his re-rolls would have been wasted the commands did more than enough.

 

Good notes, mortars did amazing work. Missile launchers too. Not sure how I'm going to split those with the rule of three. 3 squads of em in the back field wailing on their infantry would be great. The russes earned their keep too. The heavy bolter's and battle cannons smashed his nobs and truck to scraps, but the las-cannons on the hull hit absolutely nothing. On the flip-side the exterminators did ok? The autocannon teams did squat, they get ditched. The ones in the russ I'm torn. Love the model but they just seem worse than battle-cannons.

 

Neutral things- Sentinels, put a wound on Thraka, but what else should I do with em? just solo guys to grab objectives? Command squads, the only thing I can imagine helping me is the banner. They just got picked off. Junior officers- I'm liking em but 3 is probably too many? With the company commanders, and probably another one If I have to bring another detachment to replace stuff moving forward.

 

Speaking of moving forward, good bye Baneblade. That was rough to watch and doing the math I can bring 3 russes to replace it. Now with the rule of three am I already at the cap of them in the one heavy support spot? Adding two tank commanders would prob fill the same. Pretty sure I'm going to replace the crusaders with more infantry. If they're all squishy I'd rather just have more of them. And I'm going to be hunting some plasmaguns to replace the grenade launchers. Maybe some meltas too. The grenade launchers seemed to be stuck in the middle. Going to chew on it while I paint stuff and watch Brockmire today. I really don't wanna add any ab-humans but everyone is telling me ogryns are money. I also wanted to keep it cadian, or at least all the same regiment, or id add some krieg watch riders. How likely are rough riders to be coming back as regular units? They seem like they could work as a movable screen or a counter charge.



#4
Commisar Necros

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Ok so my changes here I think will help, though its a long term change I think, since it will need a mess of models. Until then, maybe some allies with space wolves or grey knights to fill points. This list will need alot of new tanks and even some more infantry. I switch up the organization like you mentioned. def not something I considered since they tend to stick to the back field, but if all I have to do to get that in my pocket is change where they are in the force organization, I'm game. So all the tanks go over to the spearhead and heavy weapons teams to the infantry. Winds up being and almost 1k inf 2k mech spilt. The baneblade is gone, command squad gone, crusaders gone and most the of the heavy weapons,RIP (Hope that changes, love heavy weapons platoons). That opens up enough to add, pask in a demolisher, 2 other demolishers, a hellhound, 2 infantry squads with chimeras, and 2 more sentinels.

 

Gameplan becomes rush the sentinels, chimeras and hellhound forward to grab everything and park on objectives and if they blow up in the midst of hordes, all the better. The infantry swarm forms a gun line or second wave as needed. Tanks give mobile support on the flanks, mortars and missiles in the back clearing bojectives. Most games ill outnumber them and be able to bully the objectives with numbers and have the mortars force my opponent to keep something durable on the backfield. During deployment the sentiels and infantry mass let me get alot of insight into how the opponent is deploying, before having to put down the big guns.

 

The tanks have both AT and swarm potential so will be the killy while the infantry provide the objective control. The inquisitor and astropath are mostly there to counter the gnarly psyker stuff my friends deathguard, thousand suns, and orks bring with them. And if unopposed they can do some mean things on their own. Debating about swapping a junior officer for a commissar to avoid perils, but prob more effort than its worth. Also forgot to change it but in the bulk infantry squads 4 of em get plasma and 2 melta.

Spoiler

Edited by Commisar Necros, 28 May 2021 - 02:58 AM.


#5
sairence

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So just two small points, as it's pretty late. :P

Exterminators are just underpowered in their current iteration, because they didn't get their shots doubled as almost all other twin-linked weapons did in the switch from 7th to 8th. Most other turrets will be better, the arguably best choice these days is the Demolisher.

As for rule of 3, we are actually lucky with most of our vehicles, as we still have vehicle squadrons. So for each Leman Russ datasheet you can take a squadron of up to 3 tanks, plus up to 3 tank commanders. If you're Cadian, Pask on top of that.

I would hold off on big purchases for a bit though if you're not buying for the fun of it...we're bound to get an updated Codex in the next few months which is very likely to make big changes to how the army works, as that's been the pattern with the new books so far.
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#6
Commisar Necros

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Ya that's whats got me worried. Prob grab a sentinel or  hellhound before it comes out to carve up a good 2k list for regular play and mostly wait. Be a shame to buy 4 more russ and not be able to field em the same.



#7
Commisar Necros

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So going back at it for monday, playing against orks and deathguard and going to run the same list. Running the guard to mostly be killy tanks and disposable infantry to screen the valuable stuff and snag objectives. The grey hunters hold the line or reinforce as needed with the dreadnoughts. Blood claws lead the charge wherever they need to go. The land speeder, razorbacks, and lascannon teams go tank-hunting, while the rest of the tanks clear heavy infantry. The russes and vindicator can push or hold objectives all on their own.

 

Got some swappable arms for the dreads, tons of infantry for the guard, and bunches of first born wolves to supplement or swap.

 

Spoiler

Edited by Commisar Necros, 28 May 2021 - 02:59 AM.


#8
Commisar Necros

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Ok so gave this list, and then a modified versions swapping the vets and razorbacks for more infantry, a shot. Results were close loss to the deathguard, score said otherwise but he held the objectives we contested by 1 model each turn. Tanks did well on giving fire support while the wolves and infantry fought for the objectives. His ob sec poxwalkers were really what saved him as I just couldn't kill as many as he had(60), and the plague marines coming with them. Russes were all over the place with their damage, some of it bad rolls but I think leaning on heavy bolters with them vs deathguard just hurts.

 

Second game was against orks and was another tabling, though close on victory points. Honestly im at a loss on what to do. I went first and was able to kill 2 jumpjet(? planes with wheels and corkscrews) but still got 30 ard boys with a turn one charge with the jump, and then a relic shock gun one shotting a russ. Turn two I kill most of the ard boys, a truck and shoota boys and take the right of the field. Then he drops 30 ard boys from a teleporter, 30 storm boys from the sky, pulls the wounded ard boys off and re sets them up at full 30. Shock attack kills another tank, batlewagons take out tank commander, then all the boys charge, wipe out pretty much every wolf on the table. Top of turn three I have an exterminator, sentinel, squad of infantry, one squad of mortars, dread, and the rune priest, so it was quick. They dent some of the boys, then his turn comes around and they finish the job. Orks seem to do everything I do better, more boys, better morale, better tanks, more ob sec. His redeploy warlord trait means I cant hide my tanks from getting one shot killed by the shock gun, jump means I cant get out of charge range on turn one, all the deep strike means I never get a chance to shoot at anything before its in my line with the reroll charge orks get. The ramshacke or whatever its called means my las cannons and stuff are bouncing off the trucks for almost no damage. The only thing that outperformed what I expected was the big pack of blood claws able to chew into the ard boys, but then they just got refilled to max with a start.

 

Im going to start working on an anti-ork list, but that just seems cheesy. I don't like building specialized lists, I think they should all be take all comer's kinds, but I seem to be in the minority in my group.



#9
Commisar Necros

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Edited 5/29 Slept on it and changed a bunch.

Ok so working on things and I think I could use this. I splurged for a get started box for the tank and commissar(so cool) so will have a few more models to work on. My shame pile stared at me when I opened it but oh well. This list goes back to all guard, focusing on infantry, but with a heavy tank presence. With  infantry squads I should be able to build a manipole screen that will keep melee units away from my main killy stuff and swarm any undefended objectives. Gotta spread out more. The Russ will form a castle with the mortars and company commanders. Spread out a bit to hopefully keep deep strike a little at bay. The special weapons rush forward to grab objectives quick, with squads behind them. Figure advancing with flamer squads can help with the miserable luck Ive had rolling. The vindicare and inquisitor go char hunting. WInds up being a middle list until I start to get the new tanks to fill out what I want. Next to go is the crusaders and command squad for another russ or hellhounds. Going to start a crusade in july so hopefully will have enough painted by then to get some pictures for you guys and some battle reports.

 

Spoiler

Edited by Commisar Necros, 30 May 2021 - 02:57 AM.





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