Ghazghkull Thraka: Prophet of the Waaagh!

[Spottswoode]

Nate Crowley has just posted some images of his upcoming Ghazghkull book:

 

 

https://twitter.com/FrogCroakley/status/1394357470185807877?s=20

 

I'm a huge fan of his writing so I was looking forward to this anyway, but I really like what BL have done with the presentation of this one.

 

As for the reference to Laurence Strene, he's best known for The Life And Times Of Tristram Shandy which is an... odd... choice for Warhammer book, but given the subject matter could work really well:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_and_Opinions_of_Tristram_Shandy,_Gentleman

[aa.logan]

Oh my. I wanted the LE before I saw this, now I *need* the LE

[Knockagh]

I found (the opening chapters because I didn’t finish it) Brutal Kunnin a really tough read. 40k orks in some ways ruin my 40k mojo. The whole semi comedy idiot routine spoils my in world experience. I would say they are unrealistic but that would mean I’m saying the rest is realistic which would be stupid. Orks in LOTR are superb baddies and utterly terrifying, 40k not so much. Sometimes I’ve enjoyed orks in 40k, the orks in Helsreach are scary as anything.

 

Wonder which camp this book will fall into.

[Spottswoode]

I found (the opening chapters because I didn’t finish it) Brutal Kunnin a really tough read. 40k orks in some ways ruin my 40k mojo. The whole semi comedy idiot routine spoils my in world experience. I would say they are unrealistic but that would mean I’m saying the rest is realistic which would be stupid. Orks in LOTR are superb baddies and utterly terrifying, 40k not so much. Sometimes I’ve enjoyed orks in 40k, the orks in Helsreach are scary as anything.

 

Wonder which camp this book will fall into.

 

I think seeing as the premise is Markri being interrogated an Inquisitor it's almost going to be more of an Imperial book than an Ork one, so it shouldn't fall into the usual Ork clichés. It's essentially going to be Makari cheerfully recounting Ghaz's life story of war and terror while the Inquisitor becomes steadily more horrified by what they're hearing.

 

From his mention of the various character perspectives it's probably going to be something like a mix of a straight retelling in the first person by Maraki, and some kind of write-up / report by the Inquisitor in the third person (although I'm not sure how he's going to do the second person) - which means it'll be a combination of voices and styles, and will hopefully allow space to cover all the aspects of the character. Or it might compare and contrast Markari's version of history ("Da Boss killed loadsa humies on Armour-Geddem, hahahahaha!") with Imperial records ("Thraka's first invasion of Armageddon killed untold billions") to really drive home the point.

 

Crowley's writing always has humour in it, so given the premise it's pretty much inevitable that this book will be funny, but playing around with the perspectives and the characters he's chosen to use means there's lots of ways for him to explore that and the darker reality of what Orks mean to the Imperium. 

 

...Plus it's Ghazghkull, prophet of Waaagh and in whose boot prints whole worlds burn - if any 40K Ork is a superb baddie and utterly terrifying it's him.

[Knockagh]

The idea of the book sounds great, a little similar to the black legion. Interrogation of the bad mans little man. A little too similar perhaps...

Ghazghkull is a great bad guy nothing about him should be funny

[b1soul]

The more Ork PoV in the book, the more Ork comedy (which I too don't really enjoy)

 

Helreach is written entirely in Imperial PoV, so there's nothing funny about a horde of Orks from the perspective of a trooper or SM.

[b1soul]

Heldreach had zero silliness with the Orks as it was written from a purely Imperial PoV

 

I'd say ADB did his job fine

[cheywood]

The orks are meant to be silly, and terrifying at the same time. If you ever read a book where the orks did nothing silly, the author didn't do a good job.As for this book.... There's no good reason to not have white pages with black text, and it takes some next level petty jeallousy to censor out the photo in which he wants to show off said pages.

I like some silliness in my ORK POVs too. Just FYI Crowley’s the one who censored the photo of the green pages. I don’t think he wants any spoilers out there.

[Knockagh]

40k has a very specific feeling. The silly orks don’t fit it. They are the jar jar binks of 40k. They are not always written this way, but the silly biscuit tin wearing orks don't fit the feel of 40k at all. Edited May 18, 2021 by Knockagh

[mc warhammer]

odd, since i feel "silly" orks are quintessentially 40k in theme.

 

irl some of the most dangerous people on earth talk, think and act absurdly. that doesn't make them safe or harmless

 

(i also reckon the dark eldar come off as both absolutely ridiculous and sublimely threatening at the same time)

Edited May 18, 2021 by mc warhammer

[Knockagh]

odd, since i feel "silly" orks are quintessentially 40k in theme.

 

irl some of the most dangerous people on earth talk, think and act absurdly. that doesn't make them safe or harmless

 

(i also reckon the dark eldar come off as both absolutely ridiculous and sublimely threatening at the same time)

Your right. Silly orks are a very 40k thing, the models the clanky machinery and it can work (or maybe I can ignore it somewhat) when it’s at a distance. Not the focus of the novel. Humour should be part of any fiction genre as big as 40k, Belisarius Cawl has a great sense of humour. Amberly/Cain/Jurgen are brilliant. I’ve just found the few ork focused books to be far to heavy on the idiocy to tolerate it for a whole book. It’s not what I read 40k for.

Anyway I will reserve judgment until I get a better picture of how Nate will write them. Who knows, I’ve read very little by him.

[mc warhammer]

 

odd, since i feel "silly" orks are quintessentially 40k in theme.

 

irl some of the most dangerous people on earth talk, think and act absurdly. that doesn't make them safe or harmless

 

(i also reckon the dark eldar come off as both absolutely ridiculous and sublimely threatening at the same time)

Your right. Silly orks are a very 40k thing, the models the clanky machinery and it can work (or maybe I can ignore it somewhat) when it’s at a distance. Not the focus of the novel. Humour should be part of any fiction genre as big as 40k, Belisarius Cawl has a great sense of humour. Amberly/Cain/Jurgen are brilliant. I’ve just found the few ork focused books to be far to heavy on the idiocy to tolerate it for a whole book. It’s not what I read 40k for.

Anyway I will reserve judgment until I get a better picture of how Nate will write them. Who knows, I’ve read very little by him.

 

yeah, i see both representations working. i liked the orks in helsreach and the jaghatai novel. i also like my hooligan orks. they don't even necessarily have to clash: i like the idea that orks have crude and borderline ridiculous thoughts we are only privy as readers, but on the outside present as an absolutely terrifying, impossible to fathom beast to humanity.

 

all that said, i totally get that it's a taste thing and i think it's good that we can pick and choose from their depictions. i hope gw is encouraged to present us with more varied takes on their themes than less, if you get my meaning.

[b1soul]

The tone of the setting has changed considerably since Rogue Trader or even 2E

 

Silly Orks are more a relic of 40K olden days.

 

I think in current 40K, Orks with a bit of silliness when written from their own PoV is just fine. From the Imperial PoV, I'd want silliness to be minimal.

[sitnam]

Well as a huge fan of silly orks I'm pumped for this. It looks like, between this, Severed, and the new Necrons nov l that Crowley is becoming a Xenos specialist. Good

[Petitioner's City]

The tone of the setting has changed considerably since Rogue Trader or even 2E

 

Silly Orks are more a relic of 40K olden days.

 

I think in current 40K, Orks with a bit of silliness when written from their own PoV is just fine. From the Imperial PoV, I'd want silliness to be minimal.

Compare 1980s Pratchett with him at the end of his life, still deeply comic yet also more serious (and more pointed in his societal critiques). Later books still had Detritus, Dribbler, Rincewind - but more nuanced forms of those earlier sillier iterations. 40k orks could work well with that paradigmic evolution :) Edited May 18, 2021 by Petitioner's City

[Spottswoode]

Compare 1980s Pratchett with him at the end of his life, still deeply comic yet also more serious (and more pointed in his societal critiques). Later books still had Detritus, Dribbler, Rincewind - but more nuanced forms of those earlier sillier iterations. 40k orks could work well with that paradigmic evolution

 

 

Pratchett is a good call actually, he was fantastic at writing characters that were both comedic and respectful of their archetypes - dwarfs, witches, zombies, golems, were all written as recognisably in line with their literary boundaries, but with added depth and humour that made them so much more enjoyable. In fact, he literally wrote exactly what we're discussing here in one book:

 

(spoilers)

Hidden Content

Mr Nutt, the orc in Unseen Academicals

 

Orks should never be silly, but Orks should always be funny. In the best writing Orks have always demonstrated a sense of deadpan, dry humour about everything going on around them, it's one of the things that make them unique, and such a contrast to every other race that takes the 40K universe so seriously.

[grailkeeper]

One thing that I've always thought would be cool would be if an ork POV book was entirely written in Orkish argot- like Irvine Welsh's are in scottish.

 

Orks are based on football hooligans. The authors should read a few footy autobiographies for a casual attitude to ultraviolence. 

[cheywood]

Out next week: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/23/sunday-preview-the-mortal-realms-quake-beneath-the-tread-of-kragnos/

 

Looks beautiful. Good luck to all who want it. May your internet be fast.

[aa.logan]

Run of 2,000 from what I can tell in the preview.

[aa.logan]

Went up a bit earlier than usual; copies still available on the NZ site- not been the case for some time. Interesting to see less demand for this one

[sitnam]

Went up a bit earlier than usual; copies still available on the NZ site- not been the case for some time. Interesting to see less demand for this one

From what I've seen, non-Horus Heresy and Space Marines stuff doesn't go as quick. I'm sorely tempted to pick this up, but with impending sisters I'm not sure

[aa.logan]

I feel like being bold; I’m not posting chapter-by-chapter updates, but I’m mighty impressed with the first couple. Feels almost RT-era in the oddities. So far, we’ve had...

 

an Ogryn psyker far more intelligent than a Bone ‘Ed in the retinue of an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and a Blood Axe ork discussing the subtleties of Ork to Gothic translation with a (renegade? Radical? IDK) Deathwatch/Space Wolves librarian. Plus green ink text!

 

I’m really enjoying this one.

[aa.logan]

Bit further in; really good fun, lots of existential stuff about ork Kultur, some nice comparisons with humanity and some new(?) Xenos mentioned.

 

Folk upthread have compared the interrogative framing to the Black Legion books, but it’s closest relative is Hayley’s Skarsnik, which is good as that is one of my favourite BL novels. The Inquisitor and her retinue are as much characters as Makari.

 

The green pages have been deployed for visions from Mork/Gork and are a nice touch, but not essential. I wonder if they’ll make it to the regular edition. Did the red pages transfer from the LE Angron?

[Taliesin]

No they didnt, I have the regular hardback.

 

I am interested in this book, thanks for your impressions so far and I will continue to read more

 

I wish they announced when the normal hardback would appear, 55 EUR for this book seems excessive for my spending ( feel the same way about most other limited editions that are not Siege of Terra btw, they dont even feel very special for that kind of money without internal art).

Edited June 7, 2021 by Taliesin

[aa.logan]

It’s short- less than 250 pages, but now I’ve finished it the only flaw I can think of is that the afterword says that Titan Legions was released in 1992.

 

Fuller review to follow.