New Codex Cover & 9th Ed Speculation/Rumours

[MillionsSons]

Only part I'm bummed about is they went with every cult getting a psychic power that only one person can cast every turn instead of them having a added special rule just for them that effects the whole army not just the sorcerers.

 

Other then that I'm just going to wait till I've watched man reads book.

It might still be the case.

Sub factions like drukhari have multiple bonuses. Our cults might have a spell/artefact/WT + maybe an faction wide bonus and a stratagem

[Ahzek451]

 

Only part I'm bummed about is they went with every cult getting a psychic power that only one person can cast every turn instead of them having a added special rule just for them that effects the whole army not just the sorcerers.

 

Other then that I'm just going to wait till I've watched man reads book.

It might still be the case.

Sub factions like drukhari have multiple bonuses. Our cults might have a spell/artefact/WT + maybe an faction wide bonus and a stratagem

Anything is possible, but I think the best source to look at to see what we will get is our fungal brothers. Look into how eaxh contagion functions. Uniquely different from sub factions.

[Skerr]

I believe it applies to all attacks.

 

1. "Until the start of your next psych phase..."

2. "...each time an attack is made against that unit by a model in a friendly CoK unit, reroll a wound roll of 1."

 

That it lasts from your one psy phase to the next means it effects your entire turn.

 

That it uses the general term attack does not imply, to me, that it defaults only to close combat but rather all attacks.

 

Similarly to how the game refers to saves and then uses a specific type of save if required.

 

I could be wrong though but looking at it as written I believe its all attacks. The fact that it lasts for your entire turn makes me believe the intention is to summon energies that basically hex your opponent for the duration of all attacks.

 

I will say this, I remain optimistic, I generally always am when our new dex drops with each edition, and I have done so with a lot of you right here on B&C though nothing really jumped out at me on these today and that brings back familiar feelings.

 

To be fair, the reroll 1s to wounds ain't that bad and I might be undervaluing that. But I understand the CoT frustration. Will 1 three wound model be enough to keep up? It might once we see all the other rules. And would it be unbalanced to let a lucky roll add an extra model or 2 even if its always defaulted to SOTs? Who knows? At first thought it doesn't but again we only have part of the puzzle. The Last power is definitely niche toward other psychers which can make it feel limited. An extra couple potential mortals at a higher WC would give it more flexibility but as it is WC 5 is cheap.

 

Even so I am still excited to see what else is in store this week, the best may be yet to come and these may be small problems in the end.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Skerr

[BrainFireBob]

I agree, especially if all Cult sorcs get the cult power. Any Sorc can become a quasi-lieutenant or Apothecary. Flexibility. Edited August 3, 2021 by BrainFireBob

[Archaeinox]

it probably still won't scale well from 750pts to 2000pts and above BUT i hope the 'meat' of the faction is from that super doctrine and that the cults are just icing for flavor.

[Marshal Loss]

I could be wrong though but looking at it as written I believe its all attacks.

 

No, you're definitely right, as posted on the previous page. I understand why the phrasing trips some people up but the rulebook makes abundantly clear that each attack is a separate sequence (p220-221).

 

The rules for making attacks have been written assuming you will resolve them one at a time.

 

We can choose to do multiple sequences at once (e.g firing a unit's boltguns simultaneously), but they are still independent of each other.

 

The wording for this particular rule is:

 

If manifested, select one enemy unit within 24" of this Psyker. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, each time an attack is made against that unit by a model in a friendly Cult of Knowledge unit, re-roll a wound roll of 1.

 

Each time a model (in a friendly CoK unit) makes an attack, e.g. every Rubric marine is making their own attacks, independent of each other - they are simply rolled together to save time.

 

So, yeah - there's no ambiguity here at all.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[MillionsSons]

Reroll wound of 1 is great, the problem is that when this is your sub-faction bonus.

A deniable spell, that you can not even cast-off, and that is going to apply to only a few units that are actually shooting on the targetted ennemy... wow

 

Compare to Bkack Heart sub faction bonus:

- Vect

- all units reroll 1 hit roll (shooting and CC)

- +1 level in power from pain table

 

 

All these cult power would be great if combined, means each sorcerer choose a cult, and can target any TS unit with it.

This is fluffy and would be quite interesting to play.

But using only 1 cult, just give us 1 power as a faction bonus, with very near zero impact.

And if we pay 2CP for a patrol, we just unlock 1 more spell, and the units in that oatrol cant be affected by the spell from battalion cult.

Edited August 3, 2021 by MillionsSons

[Ahzek451]

And now we know. 

We have points to spend depending on how many psykers on on the table. Seems nifty. So far, there are a lot of abilities that are helping to mitigate weaknesses in our psychic ability. While, Cabbalistic focus is spendy, so incredibly useful. Kindred sorcerers helps against those feel bad moments. The fact that these act as command points without spending command points is such a boon. The fact that they are neither a psychic power or stratagem means they cannot be stopped in any way. Juicy. 

 Discipline of change and vengeance. I believe the options now available to us is incredible. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Ahzek451

[Archaeinox]

This is some spicy stuff. I can't handle the interwebz today. Gonna take my happy face and go to work and just vibe the rest of the week lol. Praise Tzeentch, yall

[Skerr]

Well I am intrigued. I need to wrap my head around this more but so far sounds promising!

 

For 2000 point games most of us will be well over 10 cabal points and though there are 9 rituals I did not see any limitation or ties to a single cult for this mechanic, might bode well for other mechanics (but keeping my head out of the clouds, lol).

 

At first I thought the Ritual strat got nerfed though as far as we know these can combine. A easy +1 to cast for with no cp is nice. Throw on the strat if needed.

 

I dig the legion command traits also.

 

Now we need more info but I am getting a little excited.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Skerr

[Grendaxe]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/03/cabbalistic-rituals-are-about-to-make-your-thousand-sons-psykers-scarier-than-ever/

 

Yeah, Cabbalistic Rituals is looking really nice. Finally getting off psyker powers with some reassurance and not feel like a first time sorcerer fumbling with the warp   

A quick calculation would put me around 15-17 cabal points at the start of the game which should be plenty to play around with. I'm very curious in the other 7 options.

 

I still would like to see spells with a bit more of an impact but at least this looks and feels very cool and thematic.

[MillionsSons]

Cabbalistic mechanic looks great. Fluffy, fun to play, seems powerful and comes on top of our CP/stratagems

[Prot]

I'm still not crazy about this. I see we will have to buffer our Cabal points to be maintaining an undeniable power (8 Cabal Points), in turns 3-4. 

 

While the Cabal function is very good, the problem is unless some news comes out, we will still need to run multiple detachments so the CP we will lose from Patrols, will be compensated for with Cabalistic Rituals.

 

So for casting, I still stand by my original understanding that you're going to see a lot of 2+ Infernal Masters. That's your way of making sure you can't be denied. And they give 2 Cabal points.

 

What this means to me is by mid game you're probably going to be sitting at 2-3 Rubric squads/Scarabs = 3 Cabal Points. Ahirman=3, and hopefully your Infernal Masters (x2) = 4 points. Total of 10 points. This is assuming that most of your core units are intact. And a good portion of your list is a mix of units. 

 

Let's be honest, having a non-deniable cast once per turn is going to be the goal against certain armies, it's a must. (I just played against SoB last night, and the denial abilities on a 5+ from a bloody Rhino is NOT fun!)

 

Conversely, this may push people towards hardcore Cabal Point hording... (it depends on how good the rest of these are) and not dilute the potential Cabal Points. In this case you'll see DP's, and the odd Exalted in there to push the potential total up by 6 points.

[Xenith]

With access to a possible 20 powers 9+9+cult+smite, minus detachment antics, plus the drive to include more sorcerers through cabbalistic, I'm thinking the TS detachment ability has to be allowing multiple castings of the same power, maybe at 1higher warp charge for each additional time, like smite. Or hopefully at least the cult one everyone knows. 3 exalteds plus 3 aspirings is already 50% of your known powers chosen.

[Skerr]

It's definitely a shaking of the tree and that is refreshing and look forward to more.

 

Its true as the game goes on to later turns armies lose resources. Deny the deny might be key beginning of game to shut enemy psy down and establish psy dominance and we rely on other tricks mid late game. Geez I wonder what the 9 point one does.

 

Maybe there is a strat that adds to rolls for later turns.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Skerr

[Archaeinox]

Better find a way to get tokens fast. 

Oh and the playtester says today that there are rituals that cost 3 and 4 and are great, will probably be used often... good to know.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Archaeinox

[WarriorFish]

This is interesting indeed, I am partial to the ability to customise characters - improving psykers for a modest amount of points is nice. Especially for using floating points which can happen a fair bit for Sons :P The Cabbalistic thing seems like it could have potential. Again I like having options so I'm hoping they're all viable so you don't end up using the same ones all the time.

 

Looking forward to finding out more especially on general army things - i.e. the baked in bits you don't need to roll or spend points to get :P

[Prot]

What I'm really curious about at this point is WL traits, and Relics.

 

I've always struggled to fit them in with this army almost more than any other. Retrieving CP, or Dark Crystal have always been up there, but PA did give a few cool ones (but I think +1 to cast could be removed or different now that we have Cabal Points).

 

I imagine some ways of generating additional Cabal Points will be part of a trait or relic. But as usual I anticipate this to be a hard choice.

 

I've been making new lists based on the points changes in the new dex (part of the 2021 CA). As bizarre as this sounds, I still think CoT Time Flux is nerfed, even with the wound increase, (Heck I almost wish our Rubrics especially stayed at 1 wound!) but there are ways I'm discovering to deflect some of these points increases: 1 is the cost of Tzaangors going down (I believe) and don't quote me on this, but if I recall the Hellfire missile racks went down a good chunk. 

 

As a side note, we don't know what the Kopesh upgrade sword is yet, do we? I saw it in the CA points guide.

[PiñaColada]

I'm really interested to know which Ritual costs 9 Cabal Points. It's such an insanely high cost that odds are it's either crazy strong or really overpriced

[BoomWolf]

Well, either some rituals cost the same, or there is something bigger than 9, or there is a 1,and I can panthom what can be that minor.

 

9...autocast?

[PiñaColada]

They say in the article they cost between 3 and 9, so there's nothing so minor as a 1 or 2 point cost. But considering how strong (albeit situational) the one that costs 8 is, you gotta wonder what 9 is.

Max out damage on a spell? That'd be really good on a super smite but unless you really need 3MWs on a normal smite you'd never use it on anything less than d6 damage potential.

Immediately cast another spell at its minimum cast value (don't have to roll)?

Teleport after casting that power (meaning the caster basically gets a dark matter crystal jump)?

Something way worse than that, who knows? Exciting times!

[Prot]

They say in the article they cost between 3 and 9, so there's nothing so minor as a 1 or 2 point cost. But considering how strong (albeit situational) the one that costs 8 is, you gotta wonder what 9 is.

 

Max out damage on a spell? That'd be really good on a super smite but unless you really need 3MWs on a normal smite you'd never use it on anything less than d6 damage potential.

 

Immediately cast another spell at its minimum cast value (don't have to roll)?

 

Teleport after casting that power (meaning the caster basically gets a dark matter crystal jump)?

 

Something way worse than that, who knows? Exciting times!

 

 

A very powerful choice would be to cast the same power again (whether you passed or failed the previous attempt).

 

Another one I'm hoping for is a 2 Cabal Power: Any units in silver armour cannot cast powers for the batteround.... I kid, I kid...!

[MillionsSons]

They say in the article they cost between 3 and 9, so there's nothing so minor as a 1 or 2 point cost. But considering how strong (albeit situational) the one that costs 8 is, you gotta wonder what 9 is.

 

Max out damage on a spell? That'd be really good on a super smite but unless you really need 3MWs on a normal smite you'd never use it on anything less than d6 damage potential.

 

Immediately cast another spell at its minimum cast value (don't have to roll)?

 

Teleport after casting that power (meaning the caster basically gets a dark matter crystal jump)?

 

Something way worse than that, who knows? Exciting times!

The 9-point could an auto denial. Or something to shut down a culexus?

Or army-reroll 1 for psychic test....

[Xenith]

 

Oh and the playtester says today that there are rituals that cost 3 and 4 and are great, will probably be used often... good to know.

 

It's nice to know with an exalted you get 3CaP, which means you basically get a free cabal thing per turn, just by including that model.

 

 

As bizarre as this sounds, I still think CoT Time Flux is nerfed, even with the wound increase,

 

 

In a vacuum, it's indeed nerfed, but we dont know the range of faction abilities yet. Time might be 'on a casting roll of 9+ for this unit, resolve the psychic power's effects a second time". There's already something similar, right?

 

I'm believeing the hype, and actually put in a request for the book and box with my local supplier. I was reluctant to buy loads of books this edition, still am, but the last was Blood Angels ~8 months ago. 1 per 8 months is acceptable...right?

[Torbenos]

I do quite like that I can boost my terminator sorcerer, I love the model as a leader for my Scarab Occult. I'd like an Exalted Terminator Sorcerer, but Battle Psyker is something.