Marshal Loss Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Goonhammer review. I really like the new Brotherhood of Sorcerers (+1 to cast/5+ invul). Iron Sage 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 No range increase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trokair Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 No range increase? If you are referring to psychic power range, it said that some powers got a native range increase, and if you desperately need 6” of range increase one of the Cabalistic options dose that. Iron Sage and Malakithe 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomWolf Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) Ok, looking through the reviews...Dang its a good codex. Got lots of power, lots of flexibility and as complicated as only a tzeentch book can be. The reviews sure gave a poor taste of what is actually full of flavor.5++ is also a very, very nice addition to our arsenal. no effect on our "native" units, but our armored division gets an upgrade, and so does any forgeworld additions. heck that alone would make the crowds go wild in previews! Icon of flame generating cabal points is weird though, seeing how CSM has it too. Guessing they'll get something else instead for their banner. Also confused about the tester reviews mentioning daemon engines to be great for us. They are really not? they don't gain from any of the new rules and lost daemonforge. our "classic" tanks gain so much more. Edited August 7, 2021 by BoomWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Forge and Maulers are looking goooood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torbenos Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Slot free sorcerers for every Exalted Sorcerer. That is nice. Can really try and push for psykers more than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) Overall, we made out pretty good. Seemingly at a glance, at death guard level or slightly lower. That being said, wishlist items were still: 1. a manipulation power to turn enemy weapons (ranged) against themselves. 2. All is dust is a bit of a feel bad let down. Almost akin to necron reanimation for multiple wound models. Yes, we do have a way to help against damage 2 for a one use per turn ability. But any opponent will simply point it's damage 2+ against another rubric unit if given an opportunity. In an edition with loads of damage 2+/random. And now models with 2/3 wounds which beg to be targets of said weapons. Magnus is in a funky spot. An absolute beast in damage output, defensively sill decently manageableto kill in one turn. His ability to crank out powers is dialed up immensely with all the subtle changes. Friggen, yay 5++ to all our vehicles now! Some other at-a-glance let downs is the tzaangor enlightnend. Still a speedy objective grabber, but no real boost. The new arrows acting as snipers is deceptive. Mathematically only causing a couple wounds on a character per turn. Spoiled for choice on relics and warlord traits. Thank you foe fixing the horrible and arguably worst relic in the game, the athenaeum scrolls are fun now. Edited August 7, 2021 by Ahzek451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) No sweep attack for Magnus. Ouch. I played my first game last night with what I knew against Orks. They really struggled against All is Dust on my Rubrics especially. SoT's being ObSec is really nice. I love the new SoT rules. +edit+ I think Magnus also lost his reroll 1's aura for psychic phase? I hope not. That was actually one of the most potent rules I used for him. If Warp time goes the way of the dodo bird, I think personally he's less usable. I do like his new Smite rule though (+3 to cast, rolls 11+ Smite =3D3 mortals) Edited August 7, 2021 by Prot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomWolf Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Magnus got a lot more durable with the -1 damage trait added. and know ALL spells makes him the ultimate utility knife. adding 5 cabal points on his own is also great (4 base, warlord trait for another) he seems good. Sniper goats might not be the best, but its A sniper. and between this and targeted smites, it should be enough to take care of an occasional hidden buff char if that's your problem in the meta. AiD not changing is indeed a letdown, but still, it helps against random shots not getting free kills, especially with 2 wounds. meh. Scarabs became amazing, as prophesied. ObjSec, 2 damage attacks, 3 attacks base, better soulreapers. the gives never stop. The extra sorcerer per exalted is honestly doing nothing to me. I can't find the points for a forth HQ anyway. The cabal rituals are amazing. not very strong in the grand scheme (as you only trigger a handful), but that SO MUCH tactical versatility, especially with triggering them after rolling the cast. Iron Sage 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 It looks like Relics are more interesting which is great. I should admit that I didn't realise AiD worked on Invulnerables so I don't feel like it got worse... :lol: The army wide 5++ is nice I think that is going to be one of the bigger shifts in how Sons play, as this helps non-psychic units for the first time. Overall I think the codex has addressed a fair few issues so I'm keen to get some games in. I also think the Cabal Rituals are going to be a big part - games will surely be won by them when used well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) I'ts going to take me awhile to possibly be turned on to the sniper goats. As a seasoned user of necron desthmarks, they suffer a similar problem but between them and the snipe goats, the death marks are miles better...which..says a lot of bad for the goats. Will require further playtesting. I geuss some positive perspective for us, on the other side of the fence it seems between us and our silver brethren, we made out a lot better. Some feel bads going on for them it seems. This book certainly has done what a lot of fans wanted, goats are ok, but definitely take a back seat. Also still no needed major incentive for tzaangor to take chainswords and las over the blades. Damn. Edited August 7, 2021 by Ahzek451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) Still processing everything and in general we are definitely way better off than we were. As with all new changes some things are going to a bummer (is it confirmed AID does not affect invulnerable saves?) but it seems to have a lot of versatility, cohesiveness and synergy. I don't mind at all that our Sorcerers are doing the heavy lifting. The Rubicae seem much better off and the support astartes units getting 5++ is a nice surprise. The only real gut wrencher for me is otherworldy prescience but Ahriman did get another wound so...have to accept it. I suppose invulns are being scaled back a tad overall in 9th? Vortex beast looks much better though I was hoping for unit buffs and opponents debuffs, still I am more likely to get one now. Also miss a bit of the Tzangoors flavor like the modifer to character hits for pretty shiney relics, even the ws 3 but the reduction in points and invuln is super nice so I will take it. I think that wraps up all my complaints, its off my chest now and I am ready to accept change, Edited August 7, 2021 by Skerr byrd9999 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 I'ts going to take me awhile to possibly be turned on to the sniper goats. As a seasoned user of necron desthmarks, they suffer a similar problem but between them and the snipe goats, the death marks are miles better...which..says a lot of bad for the goats. Will require further playtesting. I geuss some positive perspective for us, on the other side of the fence it seems between us and our silver brethren, we made out a lot better. Some feel bads going on for them it seems. This book certainly has done what a lot of fans wanted, goats are ok, but definitely take a back seat. Also still no needed major incentive for tzaangor to take chainswords and las over the blades. Damn. Honestly I'm okay with less goats. I see using a squad and that's it.... but I do use Exalted. They always fall apart on me but they are fast in a relatively slow army. What I will say is I can see creeping up on weaker armies, like SoB, and sniping the heck out of Hospitalier's etc... weak character hunting at best, but usually these guys just get me quarters scoring. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomWolf Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Didnt even look at the vortex beast before domus mentioned it. my god it has improved! Honestly, whoever made the previews ought to be fired, they looked SO bad, and the book is SO good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 I'm pretty intrigued with this book, I did notice in the goonhammer preview lists that they had soulreaper cannons in 5 man squads of rubrics. Really like this change because I don't plan on running bray units for awhile. That said I haven't played sons anywhere near enough in 9th to know how good they are. Didnt even look at the vortex beast before domus mentioned it. my god it has improved! Honestly, whoever made the previews ought to be fired, they looked SO bad, and the book is SO good. I think it's better to preview it like they did. Concentrating on the character and troops gives a prospective player a good ideal of what they're getting in to. Then let the vets find the spicy stuff, because those rules are the ones that lead to the sky is falling when they are taken out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Eh, it's been the pattern since they joined social media. Cheeky teasers is the name of their game. I do really like the vortex beast changes. And 2 fairly useful strats, it's like gw really wants us to use it. Sort of. One of the big issues from last time was it's defense ability which, does not look to have changed in the sense that it csn fairly easily still be shot off the board in one go. And that tactically speaking, many players valued having some more heavy weapons over this thing. But...I think now we have enough power boosts and distractions that perhaps this thing can make it mid board and get stuck in. The extra 2" to its movement certainly helps, I've had 2 on the standby since the last book and will give them a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 I'm super stoked for this book, it finally feels like my rubric hordes and 15 SoT will perform on the tables as I want them to. A bunch of great relics (seriously, just taking 3 is tough) and some pretty decent warlord traits makes our characters real interesting as well. We get a bunch of great strats so I don't think taking 3 detachments for cults is worth it but a battalion plus another patrol seems like a no-brainer to be able to double dip on cult goodies. I'll give GW credit here, it wouldn't have been difficult to make TS a bit bland and unimaginative (or crazy super strong with buff interactions) but it seems like they walked the tightrope and gave us a fun, solid codex byrd9999 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 I'll also give them some big credit for giving us 2 big items I may have bugged them about many times: making all bolters have inferno rounds. And giving an army special rule to them up our generic things like vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomWolf Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 I'll also give them some big credit for giving us 2 big items I may have bugged them about many times: making all bolters have inferno rounds. And giving an army special rule to them up our generic things like vehicles. I'm really disappointed how they went halfway there and didn't do the same to flamers tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitnam Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) Any word on what Cult of Mutation got? Always been my preferred aspect of Tzeentch Also, I see the Icon of Flame adds cabal points, but does it still have the MW functionality too? And do Tzaangors still have access to it? Edited August 7, 2021 by sitnam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Overall I'm happy with the changes with one exception. Rubric and Scarabs. AiD just doesn't feel like enough. Pretty expensive for extra AP on a Bolter and against what is a very D2+ heavy 40k Armoury. Offensive/Defensive ratio doesn't feel right. Would have loved to see either a straight +1 armour save, toughness, or -1 to wound. Overall pretty happy, just a little sour for the Dusty boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomWolf Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 I am very much not sour for dusty boys. The simple rubric? yea, a bit. but an extra wound for almost no price is good. they have great defense against anti-horde guns, and the build in invul they always had gives decent defense against quality fire. they are decent. The full smite is also a nice touch, as in (improved) soulreaper in 5 man squads, +1 to movement, the much improved spell access and the cabal generation. But lets not forget the age of the warpflamer! for mere 1 point increase they enjoy all the rubric upgrades, but with now range 12 warpflamers so you can teleport into range! and a spell to give it +1S to boot! warpflamer rubric squads. I think we're gonna see a lot of warpflamer squads jumping around. The scarab though are major winners. ObjSec, extra wound, double damage in CC, cheaper and better ranged weapons, casting improvements with no meaningful price change? yes please! I mean, a squad of 5 with a soulreaper and missile rack went up measly 8 points. (15 points for a bare bone 5 man squad) They are GOOD. I cant see a list not taking at least 10 of them. To be frank, I cant see a list not taking quite a lot of stuff, more than we have points for XD Too many goodies is a problem we didn't have for a long time. I'm actually considering cutting down on HQs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 I'll also give them some big credit for giving us 2 big items I may have bugged them about many times: making all bolters have inferno rounds. And giving an army special rule to them up our generic things like vehicles. I'm really disappointed how they went halfway there and didn't do the same to flamers tough. Yeah, but to add to this, also felt that heavy bolters should get rounds too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Comparing psych potential from last edition we came out well! Really happy with our spell selection, difficulty level casting and effects. 2-3 five man rubrics with soulreapers and icons is is a great way to boost those cabal points. I'm probably looking at 1 ten man rubric and 2 five man rubric squads. Also several of the cults look like they could see some play. Plus with a couple other ways to heal models stacking with cult of Time we have increased ways of keeping models on the table. Time will tell with AID and how effective it will be in the meantime we will have to be resourceful with all our tricks to mitigate threats. Is double swords for Exalted Sorcerers back on the menu? Really happy to see ways of boosting those Cabal points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Any word on what Cult of Mutation got? Always been my preferred aspect of Tzeentch Completely unchanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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