Marshal Loss Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 (edited) MFM (aka Codex) GK points: ^ Oh btw, no Primaris. @Waking Dreamer - You cannot conclude there will be no Primaris Grey Knights. GW already announced content in the MFM for GK and TS is incorrect. It is impossible to take something the company itself said is trash and use it to make wild claims. The points in the MFM are incorrect for the current codex, because they were intended for the next codex. Waking Dreamer is not making wild claims. This article makes that clear. Well, we’ve got a confession to make – the points values featured in the Munitorum Field Manual MkII for the Thousand Sons and Grey Knights are actually incorrect. That’s because their codexes were intended to be out at this point, complete with their fancy new rules and updated points values. For now, you can download the updated points values for the Thousand Sons and Grey Knights using the button below. These points values cater for all the units from both of these factions, and they are designed to be used alongside their current codexes until their new books arrive. It's an identical situation to when we received updated points for the Death Guard's 9th edition book when it wasn't yet released earlier this year. As a result, it is actually very safe to conclude that there will not be Primaris Grey Knights (in this book at least), just as it is very safe to assume that the Thousand Sons will not receive anything beyond the Infernal Master. Edited May 30, 2021 by Marshal Loss Captain Coolpants and Skywrath 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sidonius Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 I'm really glad there (probably) won't be any Grey Knight Primaris. Relieved even. The Primaris models are really nice though so hopefully that upcoming box set comes with 'true scale' Castellan Crowe, Terminators and Strike Squads instead N1SB and Angry Banana 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 The GMNDK fully upgraded with Greathammer, H.Psycannon, G.Psilenecer and teleporter is only 215 points now. Has it ever been that cheap? I'm hoping the Greathammer gets D3+3 damage (as that's what Redemptor dreads got upgraded to in 9E), for the -1 to hit. Wait a minute...it's actually the Greatsword that is now more expensive than the Greathammer? I'm assuming the Greathammer is still -1 to hit, but that wouldn't be enough to make it cheaper unless there's been a significant change between both their damage profiles. Do people think the Greatsword received an improved damage profile from it's current D6 damage...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Ideally, based on the new points the profiles would be: Great Daemonhammer: 10 points = S12, AP-4 D3+3 Damage (-1 to hit) Greatsword: 15 points = S10 AP-3 D3+3 Damage ^ There's now way getting sliced by that huge sword should inflict less damage than that of the infantry-size Daemonhammer. lol Also, hope to God-Emperor Dreadknights and Dreadnaughts finally get full access to Warp tides. It simply makes the rules consistent, logical and relevant. Brother Sidonius 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 (edited) Incinerators are a huge winner for me. Always loved them. just 5pts in the new dex for terminators and free for power armour. Also makes me wonder why the "get us by" pdf has them at 15pts currently? Hopefully they don't lower the strength or anything in the new dex. Stern going up in points too, wonder if that means they fixed his completely garbage rule of giving your opponent rerolls Edited May 30, 2021 by Captain Coolpants Brother Sidonius 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Incinerators are a huge winner for me. Always loved them. just 5pts in the new dex for terminators and free for power armour. Also makes me wonder why the "get us by" pdf has them at 15pts currently? Hopefully they don't lower the strength or anything in the new dex. Stern going up in points too, wonder if that means they fixed his completely garbage rule of giving your opponent rerolls It will go down to -1 instead of -2AP. Still not convinced we will get the 12" range with them either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casb1965 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 MFM (aka Codex) GK points: Why do these points not match up with the crib sheet GW has posted for GK and TS (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/27/5-of-the-biggest-points-drops-from-chapter-approved-2021/) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 (edited) MFM (aka Codex) GK points: Why do these points not match up with the crib sheet GW has posted for GK and TS (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/27/5-of-the-biggest-points-drops-from-chapter-approved-2021/) because one is for the new codex (yet to be released), and the other is for our current one. Edited May 30, 2021 by Captain Coolpants Marshal Loss 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casb1965 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 (edited) MFM (aka Codex) GK points: Why do these points not match up with the crib sheet GW has posted for GK and TS (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/27/5-of-the-biggest-points-drops-from-chapter-approved-2021/)because one is for the new codex (yet to be released, and the other is for our current one. And there was me thinking GW had posted the points for GK and TS to replace the ones that were in the MFM becaause the MFM has incorrect points costs in it. "Well, we’ve got a confession to make – the points values featured in the Munitorum Field Manual MkII for the Thousand Sons and Grey Knights are actually incorrect. That’s because their codexes were intended to be out at this point, complete with their fancy new rules and updated points values. Sadly, due to the fickle winds of fate (for which we can only presume Tzeentch is to blame), the release of these books has been delayed until a little later in the year." "For now, you can download the updated points values for the Thousand Sons and Grey Knights using the button below. These points values cater for all the units from both of these factions, and they are designed to be used alongside their current codexes until their new books arrive." Edited May 30, 2021 by casb1965 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollbeard Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 So wait, do we now have upgraded wounds for our PA units and TDA units with this print out? I have been hearing some rumblings but nothing really confirmed, and I haven’t done any digging myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritFox22 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 So wait, do we now have upgraded wounds for our PA units and TDA units with this print out? I have been hearing some rumblings but nothing really confirmed, and I haven’t done any digging myself. Again no, not until the Codex is released. Just like Standard Chaos has been in no mans land without their 9e codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollbeard Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Ah darn, thanks for the reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Codex Upgrades for units: Wisdom of the Prognosticars Visions of the Augurium - Augury of Aggression......+20 pts - Heroism's Favour............+15 pts - A Noble Death.................+20 pts - Omen of Incursion...........+30 pts - Presaged Paralysis.........+15 pts - Foretelling of Locus.........+30 pts Gifts of the Prescient - True Name Shard...........+10 pts - Temporal Bombs.............+15 pts - Servant of the Thrones...+20 pts - Deluminator of Majesty...+15 pts - Gem of Inoktu.................+15 pts - Severance Bolt...............+30 pts ^ I'm getting so hyped! Just take my money and give me these rules! lol Skywrath, Corvus Fortis and Brother Sidonius 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvus Fortis Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Imagine all of these affecting only Daemons, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Imagine all of these affecting only Daemons, lol. Do you think they're all relics / wargear upgrades, or are some of them equivalent to our Chapter Command upgrades? Maybe they are linked to the <BROTHERHOOD> keyword. A unit in a particular can chose to upgrade say the corresponding Gifts of the Prescient...? Other than those listed above, there are no more points listed in the MFM, so either half of them are for Chapter Command upgrades, or we don't get them and get these instead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Hang on, is this wishlisting or actually the case? If so I might have to very firmly and politely ask to board your Hype Train, Waking Dreamer and Corvus Fortis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 The MFM never explain the rules mechanics, only lists the the Names / Titles of items / upgrades and their points. Right now, I'm reading a little about the Death Guard's DEADLY PATHOGEN upgrades, which allows you to pay points to give a DG Character or a <BUBONIC ASTARTES> unit that also has the CHAMPION keyword, a particular DEADLY PATHOGEN that gives their weapon a bonus plus whatever passive rules / trait the pathogen gives. It's pretty detailed and complex. Anyways, it seems like it will go full circle to my original question: Here's an interesting question about our 9E Codex I have had on my mind for quite some time, will our rules be similar to Codex: SM or will it be closer to Chaos SM? As mentioned a couple times already, we have: 1. <SANCTIC ASTARTES> and <BROTHERHOOD> keywords, which makes us in line with DG, TS Codex. Skywrath and N1SB 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Well, I'm all aboard the hype train now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Death Guard received their own Army of Renown so I believe we have a fair chance of receiving one of our own. I'll throw this speculation out there and say, "The Ragged Brotherhood" - inspired from the legendary Grey Knight force of 109 Terminators who stopped the Daemon Primarch Angron during the First War of Armageddon. Restrictions: - No vehicles or servitors - Every model in the army must have the TERMINATOR keyword Benefts: - Access to an additional WLT, Relic and Stratagems - Rules bonuses to Charge rolls and / or Deepstrike - Rules bonuses against Khorne Daemons and World Eaters. Corvus Fortis 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrom Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 (edited) Wisdom of the Prognosticars Visions of the Augurium - Augury of Aggression......+20 pts - Heroism's Favour............+15 pts - A Noble Death.................+20 pts - Omen of Incursion...........+30 pts - Presaged Paralysis.........+15 pts - Foretelling of Locus.........+30 pts Gifts of the Prescient - True Name Shard...........+10 pts - Temporal Bombs.............+15 pts - Servant of the Thrones...+20 pts - Deluminator of Majesty...+15 pts - Gem of Inoktu.................+15 pts - Severance Bolt...............+30 pts For being a DG and deathwatch player I can foresee the following: Visions of the augurium will be either character upgrades or unit upgrades that will provide some buff or abilities. "A noble death" my might a pts upgrade to do our previous stratagem to strike even after death or something. "Presaged paralysis" sounds like a way to apply a fight last to opponent unit. "Foretelling of focus" might be some ap boost or rerolls "Omen of incursion" might be a way to deepstrike closer than 9" or a bonus to charge (I hope) but damn 30 pts for that will require to carefully apply it. Gifts of the Prescient will most likely be mini relic that we can upgrade characters or unit champion with. "Temporal bomb" sounds a lot like the good old vortex bomb and I bet it will be a single use mortal wound item. "True name shard" might be an upgrade to give a unit champion +1 to cast ? Edited May 31, 2021 by angrom Skywrath and Waking Dreamer 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 My take - refining angrom's vision.. Augury of Aggression, the most easiest there - reroll wounds in the fight phase. Could be one hit/wound/save as well. Heroism's favour - Probably a copy paste of the DA stubborn defiance WL trait (essentially a fight twice before remove model thing). A Noble Death - no idea. Omen of Incursion - could be either re-roll charges or overwatch. Pre-saged Paralysis - unit fights last. Foretelling of Locus - hit/wound/save. True Name Shard - not sure, but imagine something anti-demon. Temporal bombs - no idea, could be something to do with damage reduction. Servant of the Thrones - no idea. Deluminator of Majesty - easy one, -1 to invuln saves. Gem of Intoku - psychic buffs perhaps? Severance bolt - remove obsec? It's all in the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollbeard Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Ah darn, thanks for the reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Where is this from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 (edited) Where is this from? CA2021 leaks. There was a few links in news and announcement in the CA2021 thread discussion, page 10. EDIT: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370380-chapter-approved-munitorum-field-manual-2021-mk-ii-gt21/page-10 Waking dreamer's response. Edited May 31, 2021 by Skywrath Captain Coolpants 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 There is a second page from the MFM for GK. It contains the points for the GK flyers and these points are listed after them. I think Heroism's Favour gives a unit Heroic Intervention, or increases it to 6" range, I will have to think about the rest after work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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