Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

New Codex Released - Discussion and FW strategies

Codex Strategy

  • Please log in to reply
38 replies to this topic

#1
DanPesci

DanPesci

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,252 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh
  • Faction: Adeptus Mechanicus
So as were now on codex launch day (wooo), and theres are now several leak vids/reviews of the full codex, , I thought itd be good to have a dedicated thread to discuss what peoples initial thoughts are, as its seemed a little quiet in here recently?
 
 
There's obviously loads of changes to discuss, but I've tried to keep this generally focused to the models I own, and the stygies army I've been playing the last 3-4 years.
 
I've linked a couple reviews here for those that havent seen these yet
 
Auspex Tactics
 
GMG Review
 
 
 
1. Overall thoughts on the codex/units
 
2. How has it affected your current army/forgeworld?
 
3. What would you change in your list/new models to get?
 
4. If a new admech player...what are your plans?
 
 
 
1. Overall thoughts on the codex/units
 
Could talk for days here so will keep this short (ish).
So overall I think the new codex looks great. Lots of options and variety, with a ton of ways to combine different playstyles. I do appreciate us getting quite a major shakeup with how things work, cant wait to get my hands on my copy.
 
I think they've brought a lot of units back into being viable (my infiltrators are very happy), although the one glaring issue for me is ironstrider just being SO good it just straight up outclasses the other anti tank vehicles.
 
I don't own any ironstriders, nor do I plan on getting any (not that keen on the models), but booooooy are my 3 onagers jealous.
 
Annoyingly as a non-mars player, it seems the best way to run my 3 neutron onagers would be as mars, as benevolence really pays off on them (as all three would reroll a hit, wound, and dmg on that low shot neutron.
 
Lucius also seems a very possible alternative to stygies (albeit you'll be dropping in turn 2 rather than taking midfield in deployment).
 
Rad saturated forgeworld also seems pretty nuts if going massed vanguard (ie run 4x 20 squads with 60 S4 -1AP shots each, 10 autowounds on average each salvo.....muahah).
 
 
 
 
 
2. How has it affected your current army/forgeworld?
 
I've always played stygies and use the older admech range. So I'm just going to talk about Stygies and models I own here.
 
-1 to hit is still there (albeit less so on vehicles), which is always nice. The changes to the rest are interesting for sure. No longer being able to move units up pregame but instead infitrate 1 core unit is different but still good. Redeploying a further 2 in your own deployment zone is very nice too. But it does change the way my list plays a lot - previously i was using the stygies strat to move a dunerider with priests and some breacher squads forwards...now I can infiltrate one squad of priests (or vanguard/rangers)
 
I'm looking at my 15 infiltrators with a big smile though. The change so that they simply infiltrate during deployment instead (im not sure if this previously changed from their DS and i missed it?), is cool, and actually synergises with stygies, as they can deploy midfield alongside the other core unit you have chosen.
 
I also run 12 breachers and these are now great at 2+ save. A bit less killy as they can no longer be boosted as much but still a great objective holder. Nasty enough in combat to cause headaches if you get too close.
 
 
 
 
 
3. What would you change in your list/new models to get?
 
My main change is going to be getting more vanguard. I previously ran 2 kastellans as a shooty distraction carnifex, but don't think they really work well in low numbers like this anymore (4 CC ones however, oooft). The kastellans have got the kick for now in favour of more boots on the ground.
 
Ill also be adding in manipulus and marshal conversions.
 
This is the current list I'm playing around with (I think I can pick up 2 boxes of vanguard and have everything I need to run this, which is nice!):
 
 
 
Spoiler

Edited by DanPesci, 29 May 2021 - 11:06 AM.

  • MagicHat and Magos Guilderius Davvarel like this
Posted Image

30Geek - Freelance web development & Digital Design

DVNE - Post-Metal straight out of the eye of terror.

#2
Magos Takatus

Magos Takatus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,667 posts

Thanks for the thread, I thought it was alarmingly quiet in here considering the new codex was due. 

 

For my plan, I think I'm going to learn how to use the Rad Saturation rules and stock up on a few more Vanguard, some more Ironstriders and possibly a third Dragoon. I was considering some Fulgurite priests but I am unsure about that currently. I haven't received my codex and Marshal yet so I'm not leaping right into things today.


  • DanPesci, MagicHat and Magos Guilderius Davvarel like this

Formerly known as Flame Boy since about 1999. Time for a change! smile.png

My Adeptus Mechanicus Ploghttp://www.bolterand...og-torburnides/

My Ork Ploghttp://www.bolterand...oys-orky-horde/

https://www.instagra.../magos_takatus/

gallery_48988_15465_6059.png


#3
Magos Guilderius Davvarel

Magos Guilderius Davvarel

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 70 posts
  • Location:Forge-World Akmon
  • Faction: Adeptus Mechanicus

Excellent idea, though I have little insight to offer, as I'm returning to 40k^^

 

Still, after reading quite a fews reviews/battlereports, I'm quite enclined to try a mixed Mars/Lucius. The re-rolls from Mars seem very interesting for shooty things, and the teleportation from Lucius, coupled with enriched rounds, might be an interesting way to go. Thinking about trading my planned Duneriders for Disintegrators instead, and taking at least 2 Transvectors to maximise mobility for Lucius units (Vangards and/or Electro-Priests).

 

Of course all of this is pure theory, as of today I :

- don't have the codex

- only have a 1000-ish points army

- have only painted 1 model (took some time to gather painting things)

 

Thanks for opening the thread though, I'll be sure to check once in a while, to discover new knowledge, as it is the will of the Omnissiah !


  • DanPesci likes this

-------------------

"Through Fire and Ash, We Honor The Machine God !
Through Lava and Smoke, We Praise The Omnissiah !
Through The Spark and The Flame, We Will Know Enlightenment !"

Akmon's Cant Mechanicus

 

"Mars Rangers:  They never fail to be useful.  They are the most consistent way to get your mortals maxed out and due to the massive amount of other threats on the board they tend to just get to do their thing all game."

James "One_Wing" Grover - Competitive Innovations in 9th: Age of the Machine - Goonhammer.com


#4
DanPesci

DanPesci

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,252 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh
  • Faction: Adeptus Mechanicus

Thanks for the thread, I thought it was alarmingly quiet in here considering the new codex was due. 

 

For my plan, I think I'm going to learn how to use the Rad Saturation rules and stock up on a few more Vanguard, some more Ironstriders and possibly a third Dragoon. I was considering some Fulgurite priests but I am unsure about that currently. I haven't received my codex and Marshal yet so I'm not leaping right into things today.

 

 

No worries, I guess its a very odd time still, things are opening up here again in the UK but ive still yet to play a game of 40k this year (so this is all very much theorycrafting haha)

 

Rad Saturation Id say is a legit choice if you have the vanguard to do it.

Multiple 20 strong units putting out 60xS4 AP-1 shots each is crazy, especially once you add in the buffs.

 

Theres a mathhammer for them on Auspex Tactics for the following stack:

 

20 Vanguard

Marshall with Exemplar for reroll 1s hit and wound (multiple units getting this)

+1 BS Doctrina (multiple units getting this one turn)

Auto-wound on 4 Strat

 

= 42 Dead GEQ, 23 Wounds to MEQ, 10W to vehicle, 19W to T7 Monster

 

Thats without a maniplus to give them a further AP!


  • Magos Guilderius Davvarel likes this
Posted Image

30Geek - Freelance web development & Digital Design

DVNE - Post-Metal straight out of the eye of terror.

#5
DanPesci

DanPesci

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,252 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh
  • Faction: Adeptus Mechanicus

Excellent idea, though I have little insight to offer, as I'm returning to 40k^^

 

Still, after reading quite a fews reviews/battlereports, I'm quite enclined to try a mixed Mars/Lucius. The re-rolls from Mars seem very interesting for shooty things, and the teleportation from Lucius, coupled with enriched rounds, might be an interesting way to go. Thinking about trading my planned Duneriders for Disintegrators instead, and taking at least 2 Transvectors to maximise mobility for Lucius units (Vangards and/or Electro-Priests).

 

Of course all of this is pure theory, as of today I :

- don't have the codex

- only have a 1000-ish points army

- have only painted 1 model (took some time to gather painting things)

 

Thanks for opening the thread though, I'll be sure to check once in a while, to discover new knowledge, as it is the will of the Omnissiah !

 

Mixed can be a strong way to go, Ive never done it though as have problems enough remembering rules without half my army being different to the other!

 

That new transvector ability to drop pod in turn 1 is also interesting, by itself id say the dunerider is a better transport (cheaper, with double capacity), but if you were really building around the double transvector ability and have other units coming in..it could be good fun.

 

Keep in mind that units teleporting in will arrive turn 2, whereas those transvectors (if using them that way) will arrive turn 1. You can take the lucius solar flare relic which lets you teleport a unit already on the board somewhere else turn 1 though (great to get a unit of priests upfield).

 

 

And no worries on the painting, welcome back to the hobby! Its taken me about 4 years (and a global pandemic) to get my 2-2.5k worth of admech painted, so theres no rush. Id definitely recommend painting what you already have and playing a few 1000pt games to figure out what you like about them/how they play. I find having a big pile of grey plastic a bit demoralising when first painting an army!


  • Magos Guilderius Davvarel likes this
Posted Image

30Geek - Freelance web development & Digital Design

DVNE - Post-Metal straight out of the eye of terror.

#6
SpiritFox22

SpiritFox22

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 289 posts

Honestly I'm still just going through the Codex online, but I'm stupidly happy that I'm no longer forced to include Cult Mech units in my army anymore.

 

I'm torn on my favored troop the Rangers though.  One one hand the rifles going to heavy and getting AP-1, synergizes exceptionally well with them being a passive gunline but that's just a minor issue.  On the other hand a 2CP strategem to turn them into RF2 is something that's gonna hurt if you can get them into half range.  Which with them now getting a T1 scoot of 3in looks like something I'd be tempted to use them as a mini rush unit since most players would focus down Vanguard instead.

 

Vanguard definitely got slapped a tad on their basic rifles since they no longer do 2D on a 6 to wound, but unmodified 6's to hit Auto wound instead so it's a fair trade.  Add in Enriched Rounds for 1CP and they're shredding anything that's not a Vehicle with their A3 flashlights of doom.

 

Though once again I foresee the Electric Chicken of doom Rearing it's ugly head with Dragoons getting -1 to hit regardless of range and Tazer Goads being infinitely better than the Jezzails they start with.

 

Ballistari OH MY the changes to Cognis made them a steal for their points.  The Auto-cannon being the clear winner IMO for anything that's not a super heavy, which the Lascannon isn't bad but it's a lot less flexible.  Still with Enhanced data Tether they're going to be flexible enough to help toss buffs to specific units that need the Data Tethers that turn.



#7
Commissar Yossarian

Commissar Yossarian

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 35 posts
Unless monster mash becomes a thing I'm going to land on the side of rangers.

Especially with Mars. They can get to st5 ap-2 pretty easy and have the option to ignore the move and shoot penalty.

With two big blocks and their defensive buff there is a real possibility of getting 15 bodies into half range and pumping out 60 shots to max out wrath of Mars.

Putting these together they seem like a good core to build around and present too many priorities for the opponent to overcome.
  • SpiritFox22 and Magos Guilderius Davvarel like this

#8
SpiritFox22

SpiritFox22

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 289 posts

Unless monster mash becomes a thing I'm going to land on the side of rangers.

Especially with Mars. They can get to st5 ap-2 pretty easy and have the option to ignore the move and shoot penalty.

With two big blocks and their defensive buff there is a real possibility of getting 15 bodies into half range and pumping out 60 shots to max out wrath of Mars.

Putting these together they seem like a good core to build around and present too many priorities for the opponent to overcome.

Yeah add in a bare bone squad of 20 costing a whopping 160pts and Rangers can be scary this edition.  Which I personally love seeing as I have 80 rangers. 

 

Though for pure ranger spam, I think Metallica for the ignoring of all weapon movement penalties or Agripinaa for an additional AP-1 to any weapon in half range are better than mars.

 

GRANTED I'm ignoring Canticles.


Edited by SpiritFox22, 30 May 2021 - 04:18 PM.


#9
MajorNese

MajorNese

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,179 posts

Well, the updates mean I need more vanguard bodies. The radium carbine's previous downsides are possible to work around now - Enriched Rounds offsets their S3, auto-wounding on a hit roll of 6 further increases chances to wound, stacking 25 wounds (for a squad of 20) on any target, without including rerolls. For 160p that's a steal.

Likewise Rangers with the RF strat - I hadn't considered the double shots at half range, but these could rather be backfield units to not need CP for their base operations.

 

Lucius is specifically useful in this case since it makes base skitarii considerably more resilient (3+sv against 1D weaponry) and increases radium to 21", with no characters/traits/relics necessary.

 

A Manipulus could be a nice combo for both, with resulting 18" double-tap range for Rangers, or 24" (Lucius 27") AP-1 for Radium (=12,5W inflicted on 3+sv units).

 

The sheer amount of Skitarii buffs will need quite some time to sort through - my first draft would include 2x20 vanguard, one squad starting on the field, one in Lucius deep strike reserve. If the first unit gets whittled down, the second drops in and takes over. Data tether means some buffs work across the board, which is also invaluable for forward units - the Marshall is really fragile after all.


  • Magos Guilderius Davvarel likes this

gallery_6494_6331_8260.pnghhoth_majornesehts27qojyj.jpggallery_48988_11572_4164.pnggallery_48988_11572_12518.pnggallery_48988_15465_8459.pnggallery_48988_15465_5251.pnggallery_48988_6285_13120.pnglockdownpaintingchallwgjra.png


#10
SpiritFox22

SpiritFox22

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 289 posts

The sheer amount of Skitarii buffs will need quite some time to sort through - my first draft would include 2x20 vanguard, one squad starting on the field, one in Lucius deep strike reserve. If the first unit gets whittled down, the second drops in and takes over. Data tether means some buffs work across the board, which is also invaluable for forward units - the Marshall is really fragile after all.

Yeah Skitarii went from being the chaff of the 8th ed Codex to being the best options for most of the slots 9th.  Add in the Marshal being able to remove the penalty from the Doctrina Imperitive from anywhere on the map so long as they have a Data-Tether or are given one that turn from anything with an BSDT which for Skitarii means anything that's not an HQ can work better than usual.

 

Though IMO for an aggressive gunline I think Metallica is the best option.  Makes the Ironstriders more flexible since you can advance them into positions and suffer no penalties.  Rangers also love it since they have a free 3in move T1 so they don't gimp themselves with their heavy rifles.  Plus Metalica's Deafening Assault is nice both for it's defensive and offensive option, Halving the enemies move can stop a sledgehammer unit from reaching something important while the other option gives you a safe charge for 1 CP.

 

Also if the Plasma Cav's aren't FAQ'd they have 30in range.  That is damn scary for how cheap the model is, sure it's a max 2 per 20, but MSU spam with Vanguard means they're still very much an option.

 

Though Lucius is 100% the best defensive Forgeworld of the bunch.  There's no debate that +1 Sv vs D1 is amazing vs most armies.  Though Morale may be a problem if you go for max squads.

 

I actually can see Rust Stalkers not being Trash this edition.  Cheap enough at 170pts for a max squad that throws 31 Str 5 AP-3 d1 swings, or 31 Str 4 AP-2 + 10 str 4 Ap-1 and MW's on 6's to W isn't bad.  Add in they cant be slowed down minus from the Bulwark Doctrina putting them down to 5", which if they're near a BSDT unit you could delete that.  Also them getting +1sv if they benefit from any cover means with decent positioning they're much more resiliant that expected.


Edited by SpiritFox22, 31 May 2021 - 06:34 PM.


#11
Commissar Yossarian

Commissar Yossarian

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 35 posts
New orks stats are really making the ranger vs vanguard debate challenging.

It's generally not good to split but if T5 orks take hold of the meta being able to drop 60 shots that wound on 4+ on a max blob of boys is going to be very tempting.

In general, unless you have a specific role to fill I'm leaning away from any special weapons in van/ranger squads.

#12
MajorNese

MajorNese

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,179 posts

It's generally not good to split but if T5 orks take hold of the meta being able to drop 60 shots that wound on 4+ on a max blob of boys is going to be very tempting.

 

In general, unless you have a specific role to fill I'm leaning away from any special weapons in van/ranger squads.

Same here. The default guns are good, or can become really good by the 1CP buffs and maybe the Manipulus. It's a bit like trading the default rifle of Rangers/Vanguard/Peltasts against pistols - it costs, but it's more of a downgrade.

 

The Artisans Holy Order WT in its charged variant, put on a Manipulus, seems perfect for Rangers - S5 AP-2 at 36" should nicely take care of both marines and orks.

And the Manipulus' magnarail lance was buffed to 36" at flat 3 damage, so the range is now actually usable.


gallery_6494_6331_8260.pnghhoth_majornesehts27qojyj.jpggallery_48988_11572_4164.pnggallery_48988_11572_12518.pnggallery_48988_15465_8459.pnggallery_48988_15465_5251.pnggallery_48988_6285_13120.pnglockdownpaintingchallwgjra.png


#13
Commissar Yossarian

Commissar Yossarian

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 35 posts
The ability to go to St5 with decent AP is a significant break point all around against most infantry in the game.

The ability to choose it as needed is pretty huge.

#14
brother_b

brother_b

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,278 posts

Here goes, my pre-orders just shipped, so still a ways off from holding the Codex in hand. I have been online and have watched several reviews on the codex.

 

1. Overall thoughts on the codex/units:
 
This codex appears insanely disjointed and complex, moreso than necessary. It also feels, incomplete, or that it suffered late development re-writes. Some examples are the strange lack of kataphron as core, the Holy Orders having a "first part" and "second part". The nomenclature does not feel like what I'd expect from GW, a company that comes up with so many epic names/naming schemes. We get ... first part, second part. I don't know why, but feels weird.
 
Add in some other things like the transport issue, the horribly devised method of datasmiths changing kastellan protocols, etc.
 
I didn't say the codex wasn't powerful, it just feels weird.
 
It looks like they've purposefully neutered some previously powerful units (Robots) and created new monstrosities (Ironstriders, giant skitarii units).
 
2. How has it affected your current army/forgeworld?
 
In 8th I played mostly Stygies, probably 80% of the time, with another 15% Lucius and 5% Mars. I love the background and lore of Stygies, and the background and feel of the army are important for me as a player.
 
I think Stygies has taken a nerf in power from the 9th edition codex. This has to do also with the nature of 9th edition as a game.
 
The boards are smaller, the -1 to hit has been made a little different (12" to 18"), and armies must advance and hold objectives, encroach into enemy territory, and generally get closer than 12-18".
 
The Stygies pre move stratagem has changed significantly as well. No more multiple moves of priests safely hidden in toasters. Instead we place a unit of CORE INFANTRY anywhere but must be greater than 9" away. This is powerful, dropping down 20 priests or a giant blob of skitarii seems great, but they will be left on an island by themselves.
 
I like veiled hunter as well, allowing me to redirect and redeploy units. This feels sneaky like GSC, and could definitely be used to spread out your enemy and direct the flow of the battle.
 
Stuff just seems to be... really pre-game oriented and after that you're relying on a dogma to protect your units, but from long range. I feel that Lucius has a lot of the same abilities, but will be usable the entire game. Their deployment options are also really tasty with solar flare and teleportarium.
 
3. What would you change in your list/new models to get?
 
I bought a lot of the new models and never built them, so I have options. I'll will build 10 raiders (3 boxes+1 from ebay), a toaster tank (str 5 no LOS), 10 sterilyzors, and the bomb plane.
 
I also will now build a bunch of basic skitarii vanguard and rangers. I have a box of robots that I'll magnetize for either dual fist or fist/phosphor. Finally I have another box of kataphrons, but with 6 breachers and 3 destroyers already, I'm not sure what I'll make.
 
Those new additions will go along with my current army which consists of onagers, skitarii, and robots, lead by a TPD and Manipulus.
 
As far as a change, I may just stay with Stygies, but I feel that Lucius and Mars will also get a lot of play time, with Lucius potentially taking the top spot for me.
 

  • DanPesci likes this

#15
L30n1d4s

L30n1d4s

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,275 posts
  • Faction: Celestial Lions

While I agree that it is a bit complicated, I think the codex (especially in the hands of a high-level player) is going to be top tier, including against the current "usual suspects" like Dark Eldar, Sisters of Battle, Dark Angels, Death Guard, etc.

 

Specifically, AdMech now have multiple effective ways to deal with infantry hordes, MEQs/elite infantry, monsters/vehicles, and even characters.

 

 

For example, against infantry hordes, they can use massed Vanguard/Ranger fire, Sterilyzor flamers, massed Cognis Heavy Stubbers from vehicles, Corpuscarii shooting/melee, massed Taser attacks by Infiltrators, and even Kataphron Plasma Culverins (thanks to the Blast rule) to deal with them quite efficiently.

 

 

Alternately, against MEQs and other more elite/multi-wound infantry, Rangers with all the buffs you can put on them, Ironstriders, Sydonian Dragoons, shooty/close combat Castellan Robots, Fulgurites in melee, Grav Cannon Destroyers, and even certain variants of the Dunecrawler and Disintegrator can work quite effectively against them. 

 

 

For Monsters/Vehicles, Ironstriders, Dragoons, close combat Castellans, Neutron Laser Dunecrawlers, and Torsion Cannon Breachers all excel (and get even better with the right Canticle/Doctrina Imperative, Forgeworld, Relic, Stratagem, and Holy Order force-multiplier support). This is especially relevant against the recent threats like DE Raider spam, Mortarion, Dark Angel Talonmasters, Tyranid "Monster Mash" lists, etc.

 

 

Finally, even against characters, AdMech have multiple competitive options, including Serberys Raiders and, believe it or not, Dragoons with Radium Jezzails (and the "Scarifying Weaponry" custom FW dogma). Both of these units can reliably "one-shot" a Primaris Apothecary (or similar character) in a single shooting phase, so that is quite a game-changer against many armies (including against AdMech mirror matches, since surgically removing key support characters can greatly reduce their efficiency).

 

 

Anyway, I am excited to see where AdMech go and am currently looking at how I can use their rules for a "counts as" Astra Militarum elite Grenadier army (i.e. similar to Storm Troopers, but less "Special Ops-like" and more just elite conventional assault infantry). 


  • DanPesci and Magos Guilderius Davvarel like this

#16
DanPesci

DanPesci

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,252 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh
  • Faction: Adeptus Mechanicus

 

Here goes, my pre-orders just shipped, so still a ways off from holding the Codex in hand. I have been online and have watched several reviews on the codex.

 

1. Overall thoughts on the codex/units:
 
This codex appears insanely disjointed and complex, moreso than necessary. It also feels, incomplete, or that it suffered late development re-writes. Some examples are the strange lack of kataphron as core, the Holy Orders having a "first part" and "second part". The nomenclature does not feel like what I'd expect from GW, a company that comes up with so many epic names/naming schemes. We get ... first part, second part. I don't know why, but feels weird.
 
Add in some other things like the transport issue, the horribly devised method of datasmiths changing kastellan protocols, etc.
 
I didn't say the codex wasn't powerful, it just feels weird.
 
It looks like they've purposefully neutered some previously powerful units (Robots) and created new monstrosities (Ironstriders, giant skitarii units).
 

 

 

I think if they had made kataphrons core, theyd have been a bit broken as it would have unlocked

- shroudpsalm and benedictions - both which would be amazing on breacher units (especially min squads with benedictions)

- Several character buffs (42" ap3 arc/ap4 plasma with manipulus!)

- 2+ save breachers ignoring Ap-1 with lucius.

- Ability to deepstrike/deploy a whole unit of them midfield with stygies/lucius

 

As much as i love my breachers and used to build around them, I think they'd just be an auto-take if they got core.

The are still a very good holding unit (esp with the new 2+ save), just less killy, whereas the vanguard/rangers have become more killy - so kind of balance the troop section out for me

 

What I think they should have actually done is NOT give ironstriders core, as these for me are the main broken (or at least severely unbalanced) unit in the dex. All i can think here is that someone found a massive cache of ironstrider boxes 'raiders of the lost ark' style before writing the codex. 

 

 

Agree that the holy order traits are a bit weird, and clunky in how they work - but this seems to be a norm for new codex - looking at the sisters preview this week they have a similar idea - although it works slightly differently as the second tier uses miracle dice.

 

Ive pretty much ignored the '2nd tier' part of all our HO traits, as you have to spend a turn doing an action to get into them - which seems a bit counterintuitive if its on say a manipulus, who you want buffing stuff turn one (or an a techpriest who you want reroll aura).

 

Logi seems decent though as its initial tier is useful all game long, for 35pts you are getting a free CP, and giving 1 core unit ignore AP 1/2 a turn

 

 

2. How has it affected your current army/forgeworld?

 
In 8th I played mostly Stygies, probably 80% of the time, with another 15% Lucius and 5% Mars. I love the background and lore of Stygies, and the background and feel of the army are important for me as a player.
 
I think Stygies has taken a nerf in power from the 9th edition codex. This has to do also with the nature of 9th edition as a game.
 
The boards are smaller, the -1 to hit has been made a little different (12" to 18"), and armies must advance and hold objectives, encroach into enemy territory, and generally get closer than 12-18".
 
The Stygies pre move stratagem has changed significantly as well. No more multiple moves of priests safely hidden in toasters. Instead we place a unit of CORE INFANTRY anywhere but must be greater than 9" away. This is powerful, dropping down 20 priests or a giant blob of skitarii seems great, but they will be left on an island by themselves.
 
I like veiled hunter as well, allowing me to redirect and redeploy units. This feels sneaky like GSC, and could definitely be used to spread out your enemy and direct the flow of the battle.
 
Stuff just seems to be... really pre-game oriented and after that you're relying on a dogma to protect your units, but from long range. I feel that Lucius has a lot of the same abilities, but will be usable the entire game. Their deployment options are also really tasty with solar flare and teleportarium.

 

 

Its still 12" on infantry but id agree its slightly less useful this edition, but its still going to be good turn 1 and for your backfield units throughout the game.

 

With the forward deployed unit, im thinking of also deploying at least 2 units of infiltrators with them for support (infiltrators now start the game on the board anywhere 9" form the enemy/deployment zone, they dont come in from reserve like previously). With their 5++ save and turning off rerolls for units firing at them, I think they could be deceptively tough to shift if you can get them in cover midfield T1.

 

Stygies is definatley T0-1 focused, compared to lucius T2 teleports. Lucius is certainly a strong choice - my only issue with is is if your opponent goes first, and can take midfield/screen, they can dictate where your teleporting units can go, stygies doesnt have this problem (but is less flexible T1 onwards).


Edited by DanPesci, 02 June 2021 - 08:41 AM.

  • brother_b and Magos Guilderius Davvarel like this
Posted Image

30Geek - Freelance web development & Digital Design

DVNE - Post-Metal straight out of the eye of terror.

#17
DanPesci

DanPesci

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,252 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh
  • Faction: Adeptus Mechanicus

While I agree that it is a bit complicated, I think the codex (especially in the hands of a high-level player) is going to be top tier, including against the current "usual suspects" like Dark Eldar, Sisters of Battle, Dark Angels, Death Guard, etc.

 

Specifically, AdMech now have multiple effective ways to deal with infantry hordes, MEQs/elite infantry, monsters/vehicles, and even characters.

 

 

For example, against infantry hordes, they can use massed Vanguard/Ranger fire, Sterilyzor flamers, massed Cognis Heavy Stubbers from vehicles, Corpuscarii shooting/melee, massed Taser attacks by Infiltrators, and even Kataphron Plasma Culverins (thanks to the Blast rule) to deal with them quite efficiently.

 

 

Alternately, against MEQs and other more elite/multi-wound infantry, Rangers with all the buffs you can put on them, Ironstriders, Sydonian Dragoons, shooty/close combat Castellan Robots, Fulgurites in melee, Grav Cannon Destroyers, and even certain variants of the Dunecrawler and Disintegrator can work quite effectively against them. 

 

 

 

 

Id second this. Theres most certainly several routes you could go down with the dex/army build, which is always great.

 

I also dont think its actaully that complicated once you get used to how the new stuff works. Yes theres a lot of stuff to remember/thats changed, but I think after a few games sticking to one setup it should become a bit easier to remember it all (esp as your not going to be using everything at once).


  • Magos Guilderius Davvarel likes this
Posted Image

30Geek - Freelance web development & Digital Design

DVNE - Post-Metal straight out of the eye of terror.

#18
brother_b

brother_b

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,278 posts

No I agree Kataphron would be extremely potent as core. I was more commenting on the feel of the codex in general; lots of competing ideas and feels like last minute edits. I plan on taking a group of 6 kataphron to hold midfield objectives. They'll be tough to shift and will require dedicated firepower to remove. They're also huge with their base sizes alone taking up a lot of real estate and allowing to screen other units effectively (per my use of them in 8th edition).

 

Stygies -1 is a nice defensive buff... but the whole game has changed and I don't feel it's as impactful as last edition. This is of course to be expected with such small boards sizes that my group currently plays with.

 

I want to come up with a first turn shuffle that would really place my opponent on the back foot. I haven't considered the changes to infiltrators. I only have one unit of 5, but could push that to 10 for a large unit ready to push forward first turn. Infiltrators are interesting with Stygies as they'll always have some sort of protection from shooting; either outside 12" for the Stygies bonus or inside for their innate ability causing no rerolls. Interesting. They're just damn fragile.

 

How many times can we use Clandestine Infiltration? We could potentially forward stack the board with ranger pre move, Serby Raider pre move, infiltrators, and clandestine infiltration.

 

I'll need to ponder the value of Stygies for first turn, or the toughness of Lucius for all game. Or Mars. Just full in on Mars.


  • Magos Guilderius Davvarel likes this

#19
DanPesci

DanPesci

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,252 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh
  • Faction: Adeptus Mechanicus

 

 

No I agree Kataphron would be extremely potent as core. I was more commenting on the feel of the codex in general; lots of competing ideas and feels like last minute edits.

 

 

Ah fair yeah I get you. I do think there's some bits that could have been better thought out (holy order traits) and its a shame there isn't more interaction for servitors.

 

 

 

 

How many times can we use Clandestine Infiltration? We could potentially forward stack the board with ranger pre move, Serby Raider pre move, infiltrators, and clandestine infiltration.

 

 

RaW I think we can currently use it multiple times.

There is no usage restriction written into the strat (like there is for Lucius teleport), and as it happens in deployment, I think its exempt from the '1 use per battle round' rule for strats (someone let me know if I'm wrong here?!)

 

So yeah stacking the midfield pregame could certainly be viable/give the opponent a LOT to think about during deployment. I think that's the route you'd want to go down with stygies as as you mentioned, just having one or two units up there by themselves would be tough to support.

 

I've currently got 15 infiltrators. Torn between getting 5 more to run 2 units of 10, or just use units of 5 (easier to hide/get in cover and not as susceptible to blast)


  • Magos Guilderius Davvarel likes this
Posted Image

30Geek - Freelance web development & Digital Design

DVNE - Post-Metal straight out of the eye of terror.

#20
brother_b

brother_b

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,278 posts

For infiltrators I’d consider a larger unit if using a warlord trait or relic. Otherwise it’s a hard call.



#21
TrawlingCleaner

TrawlingCleaner

    ++ CLOACARIUS RETICULUM ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 1,421 posts
  • Location:UK
I'm in a similar boat to others I suspect, in that I'm still waiting on my codex to arrive as I was late to pre-orders I have to wait until June 11th.

The codex does look complicated but should be easy enough once I've gotten a few games in.

I think I'll be going down the Ryza route, plasma and combat sounds like a grand old time!
  • brother_b likes this

#22
brother_b

brother_b

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,278 posts

I preordered and still don’t have my goodies. In fact preordering from GW in the States has always been a little underwhelming with the shipping.

 

We’re having a mini tournament soon and I can’t wait to see the codex and start thinking up my list and strategy. I really feel the pull towards Stygies as always but may choose Lucius just for the game long buffs.



#23
Magos Takatus

Magos Takatus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,667 posts

I am finally reading my Codex, in my infinite wisdom I accidentally sent my order to my local GW store instead of having it delivered to my house. A friend of mine offered a lift into town and now I am considering ways to hold back his tide of Tyranids. Hopefully I will find enlightenment from the Omnissiah. I certainly need it.


  • DanPesci and brother_b like this

Formerly known as Flame Boy since about 1999. Time for a change! smile.png

My Adeptus Mechanicus Ploghttp://www.bolterand...og-torburnides/

My Ork Ploghttp://www.bolterand...oys-orky-horde/

https://www.instagra.../magos_takatus/

gallery_48988_15465_6059.png


#24
DanPesci

DanPesci

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,252 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh
  • Faction: Adeptus Mechanicus

I am finally reading my Codex, in my infinite wisdom I accidentally sent my order to my local GW store instead of having it delivered to my house. A friend of mine offered a lift into town and now I am considering ways to hold back his tide of Tyranids. Hopefully I will find enlightenment from the Omnissiah. I certainly need it.

 

 

Am still waiting on my copy (had thought id got in with FLGS fast enough to get it this week but apparently theyre still watiing on next set of stock).

 

Good luck with your nids battle - id say theres certainly some new tricks in there that should help you.

 

Vanguard especially do very well vs both little gribblies (rate of fire) and bigger ones (autowound on 6s to hit against anything not a vehicle - with a start to do that on 4s)


  • Magos Takatus likes this
Posted Image

30Geek - Freelance web development & Digital Design

DVNE - Post-Metal straight out of the eye of terror.

#25
Magos Takatus

Magos Takatus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,667 posts

 

I am finally reading my Codex, in my infinite wisdom I accidentally sent my order to my local GW store instead of having it delivered to my house. A friend of mine offered a lift into town and now I am considering ways to hold back his tide of Tyranids. Hopefully I will find enlightenment from the Omnissiah. I certainly need it.

 

 

Am still waiting on my copy (had thought id got in with FLGS fast enough to get it this week but apparently theyre still watiing on next set of stock).

 

Good luck with your nids battle - id say theres certainly some new tricks in there that should help you.

 

Vanguard especially do very well vs both little gribblies (rate of fire) and bigger ones (autowound on 6s to hit against anything not a vehicle - with a start to do that on 4s)

 

 

Very true. Unfortunately my special weapon loadouts are now invalid. If I'm buying more Vanguard that will probably sort itself out eventually though. Vanguard did a pretty good job of clearing away untidy masses of Hormagaunts, hopefully they will now give Genestealers reason to pause. 

 

One of the advantages of buying a little of everything in my army is I don't have to make too dramatic a change to pivot my army in another direction. I already have 3 squads of Skitarii so another box or two will fill out the numbers nicely. That new combat patrol would give me some Breachers to fill out a squad and I never got round to making an Icarus Dunecrawler so nothing would go to waste if I bought one of those boxes.

 

I just noticed today that Secutarii Breachers Peltasts don't seem to be available from Forge World any more. That's a shame, they were cool looking models and had less spikes and aerials than standard Skitarii. They did have the disadvantage that they weren't Hoplites though. I love me a good Hoplite phalanx.

 

Edit: Thanks MajorNese. Some crossed wires there.


Edited by Magos Takatus, 05 June 2021 - 11:38 AM.

  • Magos Guilderius Davvarel likes this

Formerly known as Flame Boy since about 1999. Time for a change! smile.png

My Adeptus Mechanicus Ploghttp://www.bolterand...og-torburnides/

My Ork Ploghttp://www.bolterand...oys-orky-horde/

https://www.instagra.../magos_takatus/

gallery_48988_15465_6059.png






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Codex, Strategy

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users