What can be done about Reivers?

[Jacques Corbin]

The terror troops stratagem built in would be great. I still think their carbines should get 3 shots. No more AP, just another shot. The knives do not need extra AP, but maybe an feature to grant an extra point of AP on the charge?

 

I wish they had a Storm Speeder Transport like Scouts have with their Land Speeder Storm. Right now, I either drop them in, or use the grapplers, but I want to try them in a transport with a Librarian a d let his powers benefit from how they lower enemy leadership.

 

The ability to "booby trap" a terrain feature would be nice. Also, make it so hordes will be deterred too. The Haywire Mine on the Incursors is nice, but a mob of orks or a swarm of nids will soak the mortal wounds and barely feel it.

[Triszin]

Sorry, on my comment about the instigator bolt carbine.

 

I meant the special rule on the instigator should be on reivers carbines

[L30n1d4s]

Maybe they can be a form of "targeted assassins" for Space Marines.

 

By that, I mean, say they had a special rule called "Priority Target" which enabled each Reiver squad to pick a single enemy (non-Vehicle) Datasheet before the battle; they would then get rerolls to hit, rerolls to wound, and an additional -1AP when making attacks (melee or shooting) against units with that Datasheet for the rest of the battle (they could also ignore Look Out, Sir! restrictions when shooting at that particular Datasheet).

 

This would give Reivers a unique and useful role in a Space Marine army in that they could be a scalpel for taking out a very specific portion of your opponent's army; importantly, since you could choose the enemy Datasheet at the start of each Battle (like the Tome of Ectoclades relic from Deathwatch), this gives savvy commanders the ability to adapt to whatever kind of list they are fighting.

 

If you enemy is using Skitarii Marshals as the lynchpin of his AdMech horde, then the Reivers could go after them. If his army is built around multiple Sacrosant Celestians, the Reivers could target them. If your opponent has one key powerhouse unit, say Magnus or big squad of Deathshroud Terminators, then the Reivers could be focused against them instead.

 

Fluff-wise, this would match with the idea of Reivers as "Astartes Commandos" without making them too good against your opponent's entire army or taking away from the roles of other units in your army (and Reivers would still have a secondary role of taking away ObSec, denying Overwatch, sabotaging enemy Actions, etc. via the unique Strats they have access to).

 

Even with the rerolls and additional AP against their chosen target Datasheet, Reivers would not be too powerful, since their baseline weapons/stats are so "vanilla" and they also still have the same durability and mobility constraints of other basic Astartes infantry.

Edited September 1, 2021 by L30n1d4s

[Berzul]

I like that idea A LOT

[Mandragola]

I think I might have an answer to this, and one that could happen before the next codex. Reivers need to be made into a kill team with a bonus sprue like the one that the DKoK and pathfinders have (rather than a total new design like the kommandos and novitiates).

 

This is a way that GW could give Reivers, and ideally infiltrators and incursors, access to more gear. Make a guy a demolition specialist, another one a sniper and give one of them a plasma incinerator, or whatever. Make one of them extra sneaky, or a bit of a nutter who's too keen on knives. Give actual options for the Sergeant.

 

Reivers would be the ideal marine kill team unit, per the fluff at least, so it would make sense. And of course it would mean you could give the unit equipment to actually be useful in 40k.

[Charlo]

Oddly, Reivers seem to have been made a bit obsolete by the presence of the later Infiltrators/ Incursors.

 

Even the bestiary entry in the 2019 Codex doesn't really give any specifics to their role outside of "they kill something suddenly and that causes the enemy to panic".

 

So in essence they are the Spear tip. The very first assault. Sudden and without warning and totally ferocious.

 

Because of that, I think first turn deep strike, able to land within the opponents deployment zone would be a really thematic ability for them. Their debuffs need to be something that is always on or able to be used on the drop too.

 

Additionally, their weapons are pretty lame - especially for the ELITE terror/ vanguard troops. One fix could be that they can always be in their chosen Doctrine, representing them operating outside of the main battleline. For most this would be Assault, which gives them a nice early boost to AP and turning on some Chapter Specific abilities.

[Triszin]

I think I might have an answer to this, and one that could happen before the next codex. Reivers need to be made into a kill team with a bonus sprue like the one that the DKoK and pathfinders have (rather than a total new design like the kommandos and novitiates).

 

This is a way that GW could give Reivers, and ideally infiltrators and incursors, access to more gear. Make a guy a demolition specialist, another one a sniper and give one of them a plasma incinerator, or whatever. Make one of them extra sneaky, or a bit of a nutter who's too keen on knives. Give actual options for the Sergeant.

 

Reivers would be the ideal marine kill team unit, per the fluff at least, so it would make sense. And of course it would mean you could give the unit equipment to actually be useful in 40k.

I fully agree. A added sprue to fix them is a good idea.

[Blindhamster]

a kill team upgrade would be a very clever way to handle it tbh

[Captain Idaho]

Something I suggested in the Assault Marines thread has inspired me with a light bulb... why not give Reivers +1 to wound against Troops and Heavy Support infantry?

 

So they act like real terror troops? Assault Marines could get +1 to wound against Heavy Support choices, representing a different role to Reivers who are focused on infantry as the Assassins of the army.

 

Hell, I'd expand that rule in plenty of places, but I'd say Reivers can also have +1 to wound against HQs too.

[Charlo]

I don't like that one personally, mainly as it loses all synergy with blood angels and leaves them having no special ability at all!

[Captain Idaho]

Very good point... let me think on BA.

[Jacques Corbin]

I haven't seen this one, and am curious about the board's thoughts and opinions. How about if a unit of Reivers charges into or out of terrain, then the unit they are charging cannot set to defend or fire overwatch?

 

I think it would be good without being game breaking. Use the grav chutes to drop them into ruins, and your opponent will think twice about getting close. Or, if you have a enemy unit camping cover the Reivers can get in there and slice them up without being worried about getting shot on the way in. It would make a great one-two punch after Incursors shoot at that same unit.

 

I keep repeating this in this thread. I want Reivers to be the kind of disruption and distraction unit they are in the fluff. But, the challenge has always been fitting them in with other Phobos units. The Librarian, Eliminators, Infiltrators, and Incursors all get Concealed Positions, but with Reivers, you either have to use the grav chutes, the grapple guns, or a transport to get them to the action. Even then, you do not want them in the thick of the action. Basically you want to point them at a unit that is campng cover, holding an objective, and/or performing an action. That's why the Grav Chutes are better than the Grapples, and with the right character, a transport is a decent option.

[ChargingSoll]

I haven't seen this one, and am curious about the board's thoughts and opinions. How about if a unit of Reivers charges into or out of terrain, then the unit they are charging cannot set to defend or fire overwatch?

 

I think it would be good without being game breaking. Use the grav chutes to drop them into ruins, and your opponent will think twice about getting close. Or, if you have a enemy unit camping cover the Reivers can get in there and slice them up without being worried about getting shot on the way in. It would make a great one-two punch after Incursors shoot at that same unit.

 

I keep repeating this in this thread. I want Reivers to be the kind of disruption and distraction unit they are in the fluff. But, the challenge has always been fitting them in with other Phobos units. The Librarian, Eliminators, Infiltrators, and Incursors all get Concealed Positions, but with Reivers, you either have to use the grav chutes, the grapple guns, or a transport to get them to the action. Even then, you do not want them in the thick of the action. Basically you want to point them at a unit that is campng cover, holding an objective, and/or performing an action. That's why the Grav Chutes are better than the Grapples, and with the right character, a transport is a decent option.

They have something very similar with the shock and awe strategem, which includes a - 1 to hit in the following fight phase. But is 1CP and can only target within 6 but guarantees to go off even if the charge fails and if they run away still have - 1 to hit for their shooting phase. Might sound heretical but I think reivers should play like night lords,always outnumbering their enemy with other units and when things go sour just run away with either the grapple gun or the guerilla tactics strategem.

[Triszin]

I still go back to.

 

 

Enemy models within 6" are not effected by friendly auras.

Then give them a new sprue that adds options and flavour.

 

Also, making their carbine: assault pistol 3

Edited September 24, 2021 by Triszin

[Cap'm Heckus]

I think the should roll reivers, incursors, and infiltrators into one “phobos” troops choice with a few different load outs. Make it 1 data sheet with some “if/then” caveats.

 

Same with intercessors and assault instercessors. The model for it is already in the vets entry. Cut the bloat a little.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Cap'm Heckus

[Captain Idaho]

I've always felt that too.

[Jacques Corbin]

No, do not roll them into the Infiltrators and Incursors. Unlike Incursors and Infiltrators, Reivers are a disruption unit. They may be very light, but they can disrupt enemy units taking actions. The game has become less about killing off your opponent's army, and more to scoring as many victory points as possible. I like the idea of being able to hamper my opponent's scoring options.

 

I do like the idea of them shutting down character auras. Has so many possibilities.

 

But that is the thing, it is either make them more lethal, or make them more disruptive. My vote is more disruptive.

[Triszin]

No, do not roll them into the Infiltrators and Incursors. Unlike Incursors and Infiltrators, Reivers are a disruption unit. They may be very light, but they can disrupt enemy units taking actions. The game has become less about killing off your opponent's army, and more to scoring as many victory points as possible. I like the idea of being able to hamper my opponent's scoring options.

 

I do like the idea of them shutting down character auras. Has so many possibilities.

 

But that is the thing, it is either make them more lethal, or make them more disruptive. My vote is more disruptive.

so

 

enemy models not effect by friendly aura's within 6"

when within engagement range, ob sec denial.

and a added sprue for weapon/equipment options?

[L30n1d4s]

Another option would be to focus less on their damage output, or more special disruption related rules, and instead give them mobility bonuses.

 

For example, they could have a special rule that let's them advance and charge natively, as well as arrive from Reserve more than 7" away (instead of the normal 9"). Lore-wise, this could represent the superior mobility afforded by their unique equipment, armour, and tactics.

 

Gameplay-wise, while not directly making them any more deadly or disruptive, it would make them much more likely to get close to the enemy, where all their special rules/strats come into play.

 

Additionally, it would allow them to more reliably tie up enemy units in combat from deep strike (or just normal movement across the board, thanks to advance and charge), which itself is a form of disruption.

 

Finally, this would pair very well with the strat "Guerrilla Tactics" that enables Phobos units to go back into Reserve and then return anywhere within 6" of a table edge in the next friendly Movement phase.

Edited September 25, 2021 by L30n1d4s

[USNCenturion]

I haven’t read all the pages here, so apologies if this has already been put forward; give Reivers a rule that allows them to always flip or hold an objective. They can have always on ObSec and an aura that shuts off every other type of ObSec. I feel something like this can better represent their schtick than just hurting enemy leadership.

 

You can let them always have grapnel hooks and grav chutes (I model all mine with them anyway- they’re cool, they should be free) Grapnels allow a free 6” move to an objective and grav chutes allow deep strike. They can have native infiltrate, and with all this, I think they’d become a good choice for playing the objective game that the other choices don’t offer.

[Danosborne]

How about this: if this unit arrived using its grav chute ability this turn, add 2 to a charge roll. If this unit disembarked from an impulsor in the movement phase, it can declare a charge in the subsequent charge phase.

 

I wouldn’t change anything else, keep their wargear stats and everything the same, they aren’t necessarily there to delete enemy units but they sow massive disruption. Perhaps making this rule a stratagem would keep it from being too powerful. I can imagine 3 units jumping out of impulsors and crashing into a gun line turn one could be a bit much.

[Jacques Corbin]

 

 

No, do not roll them into the Infiltrators and Incursors. Unlike Incursors and Infiltrators, Reivers are a disruption unit. They may be very light, but they can disrupt enemy units taking actions. The game has become less about killing off your opponent's army, and more to scoring as many victory points as possible. I like the idea of being able to hamper my opponent's scoring options.

 

I do like the idea of them shutting down character auras. Has so many possibilities.

 

But that is the thing, it is either make them more lethal, or make them more disruptive. My vote is more disruptive.

so

 

enemy models not effect by friendly aura's within 6"

when within engagement range, ob sec denial.

and a added sprue for weapon/equipment options?

The only equipment I would add would be shotguns, and/or hatchets that offer +1S or -1AP but no extra attack.

[Havok13]

I think at least they should come with all the weapon options as standard, without a price increase. Combat knife, special issue bolt pistol, bolt carbine, grav chute and grapnal launcher.

[Dracos]

Amen

[General Strike]

I'm no expert, but I have noticed a lot of people say what I think. They need a distince roll to play, and hunter killer stealth guys should play differently from the incursors. They just don't dish anything out that we can't get in a better form of two troops choices. Ld doesn't matter as much, so that isn't super helpful. More shots on the carbines, treat the knives like xenophase blades. Give them some sort of marked for death ability to gain extra killing power against certain units or HQs.

 

Reivers were a first wave primaris unit so they could show us the three types of new armor, phobos, gravis, tacticus. Gravis and tacticus all have a use, only reivers seem lost in the phobos release. Make them the aggressors of the phobos line, tons of dakka.

Edited October 2, 2021 by General Strike