Stealthy Primaris force?

[schreier]

I have always played assault oriented forces, with Space Wolves back in 2nd edition, Black Templars in 4th, and then Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard and Grey Knights in 5th.

 

In 5th, I loved the "elite" feel - going with an all Sanguinary Guard/Dreadnought force lead by Dante for by Angels, and then all Terminators and Dread Knights for the Grey Knights (looking back, no longer a fan of the Dread Knight models, but they were new and shiny so I fell for the GW trap).

 

We are playing a 30k-based Deathwatch RPG game for fun, and I made a Raven Guard tactical marine sniper (really a recon marine, but Deathwatch didn't have reconcin the rules).  I love the feel and fluff, so now that I am trying to get into the newest Warhammer (9th?  Wow the editions fly by).

 

Can someone suggest a good start to a stealthy and shooty basic build for a Primaris focused Raven Guard army?  It sounds like it should be led by a Vigilator and use the Recon ROW, but that is all I am sure about.

 

I apologize for the overly broad question, but I am just trying to catch up 4 editions quickly.  Thanks!

 

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

I am a bit confused. You mention Vigilator and Rights of War which are 30k ruleset terms. But you then mention wanting to use Primaris - which only exist in the 40k ruleset. Are you looking to play with 30k rules and 40k models? Or vice versa?

[Dracos]

3 units of Fusil Eliminators

2 units of Infiltrators

2 units of Blade Guard (reserve 2CP for Infiltrate strat)

2 units of Bolter Inceptors

2 units of Eradicators (reserve 2CP for Strike from the Shadows strat)

10 man unit of Assault Intercessors for use with Master of Ambush

Shrike and second HQ of choice with Master of Ambush

[schreier]

3 units of Fusil Eliminators

2 units of Infiltrators

2 units of Blade Guard (reserve 2CP for Infiltrate strat)

2 units of Bolter Inceptors

2 units of Eradicators (reserve 2CP for Strike from the Shadows strat)

10 man unit of Assault Intercessors for use with Master of Ambush

Shrike and second HQ of choice with Master of Ambush

 

Thank you for the detailed suggestions - are the "units" in these cases like 5 mans other than the Assault Intercessors?  Any recommendations on loudout?  Do they have trouble with anti-tank?

 

Would you recommend any skimmers/flyers?

I am a bit confused. You mention Vigilator and Rights of War which are 30k ruleset terms. But you then mention wanting to use Primaris - which only exist in the 40k ruleset. Are you looking to play with 30k rules and 40k models? Or vice versa?

Sorry - adjusting from 5th edition to 9th after just starting to get into 30k confused my army-list brain.  This post is for Primaris 40k 9th edition.  I am trying to build a 30k force as well that is similar in focus (actually using my "deathwatch" character as the vigilator basically, so got my games confused.

 

This post is about purely primaris focused forces for now.

 

3 units of fusil eliminators = lascannons, so they should be pretty cool

 

It seems like Intercessors and Reivers are basically the same?  

[Dracos]

Yes most of those units are 5 each except the Eliminators obviously. Speaking of the Eliminators, they aren’t the hammer Eradicators are, and that list will require making some either or choices between them and the Eradicators. Their ability to infiltrate, BS2, and solid 3 damage makes them a very valid choice in my experience. They also benefit from the Guerrilla Tactics stratagem, which I have found situationally can turn a game on its ear.

 

Intercessors and Reivers are definitely NOT the same. Intercessors get useful strats, Reivers not so much.

[Claws and Effect]

Reivers could have been so cool. But they ended up being a unit that struggles to find a place in anything but a narrative list.

[schreier]

Good to know --- it sounds like a viable force to an outsider?  Would the recommended force be competitive? 

 

From your perspective, is it fluffy?  

 

How is Shrike?

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Good to know --- it sounds like a viable force to an outsider?  Would the recommended force be competitive? 

 

Dracos list of suggestions is great. He's also one of our frater that has gotten in more real-world game experience lately post-pandemic (I myself still haven't gotten a game in ages). In general, across all marine lists, some of our strongest units (Primaris) currently are:

 

Eradicators

Bladeguard Veterans

Invader ATVs (Multimeltas)

Inceptors (Plasma)

 

You would be hard pressed to build a "bad" list using the above heavy hitters in conjuction with a smattering of Primaris troops

 

 

From your perspective, is it fluffy?  

 

Fluffy is a tough one to say. As some of our Veteran Frater here will remind newcomers: The Raven Guard adhere to the Codex Astartes meaning their armory for the most part reflects that of other codex compliant chapters. Meaning anything in the codex we can run and there is a justifiable "fluffy" reason to do so. That being said, I think most of us agree from a "head cannon" perspective that some things are more fluffy than others, and the fluffy stuff tends to align with our Chapter Tactics and Strategems better than the "other" stuff.

 

Most Raven Guard lists are a "boots on the ground" approach - aka lots of Infantry

Most Raven Guard lists shy away from tanks and heavier armor. If they do run vehicles it's usually the walker and speeder types that are lighter/faster/more agile

Transports are sort of a 50/50. I personally keep them to a minimum in my lists just because they don't feel necessary with our Strategems, but from a narrative perspective Drop Pods make a lot of sense (not for you though since Primaris-only)

 

How is Shrike?

 

Depends how you evaluate him. If you think of your HQ's as lethal monsters that kill other characters or big stuff like monsters and tanks - he's relatively weak in that regard. If you think of him in terms of versatility and buffing capability - he is excellent. He is very fast, very versatile, and very competitively priced and unique in that regard. Most Chapter Masters are more expensive, slow, and cumbersome to use. I like him a lot (and the sculpt) but he's a bit controversial. He is the best reason to stay stock-standard Raven Guard versus doing a homebrew chapter/successor to get better Chapter Tactics.

[Dracos]

Shrike's okay. I ran him in a tournament couple months ago and he buffed my Eradicators and Plasma Inceptors. He's definitely not a game changer. Since that tournament I've gone back to running my Successor Chapter rules and using a Captain with the Ebony Claws and Imperiums Sword.

 

Yes it's definitely competitive after you learn how to apply RG movement shenanigans to your mission and opponent. Not Top 5 in tourney play but I was a couple dice rolls and one bad decision from breaking the top 10 out of 40 players that weekend.

 

Fluff

 

*stepping on soapbox*

 

If you are playing actual Raven Guard then I'm also in the camp that is cringy about Gravis being the majority of an army build . . . . As a decades long DIY Successor player, I revel in using as much Gravis as possible. Which is not to say I wouldn't be happy as a clam if someone at GW design suddenly got a clue about what the Sons of Corax are really suppose to do best, how to get it done and gave us a Supplement that made RG Phobos units the go to armor pattern.

 

*stepping off soapbox*

 

:D

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Which is not to say I wouldn't be happy as a clam if someone at GW design suddenly got a clue about what the Sons of Corax are really suppose to do best, how to get it done and gave us a Supplement that made RG Phobos units the go to armor pattern.

 

*stepping off soapbox*

 

 

It's only a matter of time before we get those Jump Pack Phobos/Tacticus units and that will breathe a good chunk of fluffy life into our lists

Edited June 16, 2021 by Shadow Captain Vyper

[ValourousHeart]

 

Which is not to say I wouldn't be happy as a clam if someone at GW design suddenly got a clue about what the Sons of Corax are really suppose to do best, how to get it done and gave us a Supplement that made RG Phobos units the go to armor pattern.

 

*stepping off soapbox*

 

 

It's only a matter of time before we get those Jump Pack Phobos/Tacticus units and that will breathe a good chunk of fluffy life into our lists

 

And hopefully Reivers get an update that makes them... maybe not the stand out choice among the elite options... but an effective elite choice in a Phobos list.

[tentagil]

 

 

And hopefully Reivers get an update that makes them... maybe not the stand out choice among the elite options... but an effective elite choice in a Phobos list.

 

 

I'm fairly inexperienced on the Space Marine side, more an Ork player, but I feel lik Rievers just need some slight tweaks to be good. Their movement abilities are useful for getting them where you need them, the Terror Troops aura can be useful, but I think would be better with a six inch range. Their biggest failing is they are a melee unit that completely lacks any actual melee punch. Give them some AP on their combat knife and it would make them significantly more worth while. And with even Ork boyz getting a -AP on their base Choppas now, I hope that change is heading toward Reivers.