A Perfidious Plan - Sisters vs. Tyranids

[Rogan]

Hi folks!

 

As the title says, I have a perfidious plan. I will make my wife like kill team, by intentionally losing. tl;dr below!

She and 40k have some history, so if I want her to like the game that brought me back into the hobby, she has to win.

Let me explain that: years ago, we got our hands on a few cheap MTG cards. I loved this game as a kid, and convinced her to try her hand. So I built two decks with a few neat tricks and synergies, and unfortunately, won every single game. A similar thing happened with Munchkin: she claims she never gets any good cards, I keep on cheating (which, in Munchkin, is legal, unless somebody notices) and so on.

So, to make her like KT, I have to lose.

After some discussions, she decided she wants to give the sisters a chance, as they are closer to her understanding of aesthetics than the rest of the product range. Sisters, as many of you already know, aren't exactly the most powerful force in the game (I guess Space Marines/DW are), therefore, my team needs to be weaker than hers.

I chose the tyranids. Now I'm not saying tyranids are weak per se, but I think they should have a hard time butchering sisters with the right equipment.

All she needs is to win two out of the three games we agreed to play. This is probably - psychologically speaking - the most effective way to tweak her brain into liking the game.

 

So anyway, here's her list:

++ Kill Team List (Adepta Sororitas) [100pts] ++

+ Configuration +

List Configuration: Matched Play: Kill Team

+ Leader +

Sister Superior [14pts]: Bolt pistol, Combi-flamer, Power sword

+ Specialists +

Battle Sister [14pts]: Simulacrum Imperialis
. Comms

Battle Sister Gunner [14pts]: Heavy flamer
. Demolitions

Endurant [14pts]

. Zealot

+ Non-specialists +

Battle Sister [9pts]

Battle Sister [9pts]

Battle Sister Gunner [13pts]: Meltagun

Sister Repentia [13pts]

++ Total: [100pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

 

Quick summary: Melta and Simulacrum/comms sister are always close, so she can hit the bigger beasties on a 2+, wound them on a 2+ and roll D6(+2) injury rolls, while still being protected from the shootier elements the shooty element of my list.

The heavy flamer sister should be my chaff's primary target, to allow her to roast a lot of the little bugs.

The sister superior stays back, but will be able to defend herself. A lot.

Endurant and Sister Repentia charge anything they can see.

Regular sisters go ahead in teams to sit on objective markers, and hopefully NOT DIE.

 

Here's my list:

 

++ Kill Team List (Tyranids) [99pts] ++

+ Configuration +

List Configuration: Matched Play: Kill Team

+ Leader +

Genestealer [11pts]: Acid Maw, Extended Carapace, Gorgon

+ Specialists +

Ravener [16pts]: Gorgon, Rending claws, Scything talons
. Veteran

Tyranid Warrior [20pts]: Boneswords, Gorgon, Scything talons
. Combat

Tyranid Warrior Gunner [24pts]: Boneswords, Gorgon, Venom cannon
. Heavy

+ Non-specialists +

Hormagaunt [4pts]: Gorgon

Hormagaunt [4pts]: Gorgon

Hormagaunt [4pts]: Gorgon

Hormagaunt [4pts]: Gorgon

Hormagaunt [4pts]: Gorgon

Hormagaunt [4pts]: Gorgon

Hormagaunt [4pts]: Gorgon

++ Total: [99pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

 

Quick summary:

The leader is going to stay behind, but hit back hard whenever something gets too close.

The gunner is constantly firing at everything that comes too close or looks too tough to soften up in close combat.

The warrior is following a screen of at least 3 hormagaunts, attacking soft targets. Tougher targets will be blocked by chaff.

The ravener is harrying the sisters' flanks, just to distract them from the actual threat, the warrior/gaunt blob.

The rest of the hormagaunts will hunt for objectives.

 

TL;DR:

What can I do to lose intentionally, but also teach her to play the game properly?

Wifey needs two out of three wins. My strategy shouldn't look like I was trying to lose.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Rogan

[LameBeard]

Some tips from playing with my son:

1) you must help your wife “unlearn” 40k if she has played before. Both sides move/charge before shooting - so losing initiative can be good. Need to anticipate movement of opponent and be prepared to fall back from combat to allow shooting by a another team member.

 

2) Choose the right missions. Unless your force is fast it’s difficult to get across the board and off the other side. But conversely you often end up in combat over objectives in the middle - because it’s often better to charge than be charged even if you are a shooty character. Flamer weapons are the exception so good you got her those.

 

The best way to combat this is get some multi-layer or difficult terrain which will slow your combat troops but allow her some good lines of sight for shooting.

 

3) some people find the set-up boring. Find a way to do most of that yourself maybe. And remember the turns speed up - so turns 1-3 take a lot longer than 4-6. Can help maintain some enthusiasm if the end is in sight!

[Rogan]

@LameBeard: thank you for your feedback. :)

She hasn't played 40k before - the history I mentioned is that I managed to make her hate it, because when we first got together, I had hardly anything else to talk about. Whoopsie. :)

 

The right mission choice makes a lot of sense. Any recommendations?

Lots of multi-level terrain, noted! Thank you for the input. :)

[LameBeard]

I’ll have a look at missions, I think I liked the ‘shifting priorities’ one but that may be in Elites. Some more tips:

 

1) draws on VPs are quite common, so consider making sure your wife wins the tie-breaker. Eg on Matched play have a force one point higher?

 

2) it’s no fun if you make choices for her, but ideally she’d choose specialist with “always on” abilities, easier to handle, easier to remember, whereas maybe you have a couple of specialist with abilities that are situational and can be conveniently “forgotten” in your early games.

 

3) it’s possible to win/draw some missions despite having suffered the worst casualties - how would you/your wife feel about that? Might be moral victories to be claimed and honours shared?

[Lord Raven 19]

It seems your wife only has two specialists, would it be worth giving the repentia zealot or combat for extra melee punch? It could help ensure that she can take on things like the tyrannid warrior.

[Rogan]

I’ll have a look at missions, I think I liked the ‘shifting priorities’ one but that may be in Elites. Some more tips:

 

1) draws on VPs are quite common, so consider making sure your wife wins the tie-breaker. Eg on Matched play have a force one point higher?

 

2) it’s no fun if you make choices for her, but ideally she’d choose specialist with “always on” abilities, easier to handle, easier to remember, whereas maybe you have a couple of specialist with abilities that are situational and can be conveniently “forgotten” in your early games.

 

3) it’s possible to win/draw some missions despite having suffered the worst casualties - how would you/your wife feel about that? Might be moral victories to be claimed and honours shared?

Again, thank you for your input. Appreciate it. :)

 

1) Good idea! I'll see what I can switch out.

2) Wow! I was originally typing a reply on how I plan to carry on the good sportsmanship thing my best man and I tend to practice, but then I realized how much I misread your post. This is brilliant, and will give me quite the edge. At losing. :D

3) Good question. She lacks actual experience with wargaming, so it's hard to guess. In PNP games, she's a sucker for actual roleplaying rather than mere rolling of dice, so I guess a statistical victory is not as satisfying as a victory that also carries a certain narrative quality. If, for example, the mission was to blow up a relay, and her sister superior, the lone survivor, managed to do so by the skin of her teeth after four rounds of bloodshed, it would be much more entertaining to her than simple sitting on objectives and playing tower defense.

 

@Lord Raven 19: For some reason, battlescribe wouldn't display the endurant's zealot specialism. I fixed that! :)

The zealot specialism allows the endurant to carry out another d3 hit roll attack for every 6 she rolls. On top of that, the SoB tactics allow the endurant to make another d3 hit roll attack for every enemy model within one inch of it. Which means I'll always charge it with a bunch of chaff. :D

[LameBeard]

I don’t know if I am helping much, just letting you know I have a similar, if not identical, experience. I want the games to be fun for me and my son. Making choices for him takes the fun away from him, even if you are giving sound tactical advice. So the way to do it is to lean against your competitive instincts when list building and choosing the scenario - try to give yourself that handicap.

 

If your wife enjoys the narrative aspect, that will also be a way to tip some scales. Eg let’s assume you are up on VPs and the rules call for a dice roll to end the game. Maybe it’s more fun to say “let’s see what would happen anyway”, play the extra turn and give her a chance to get back on level pegging (or some other heroic deed).

 

Examples like this show there is plenty of luck involved in games of Kill Team anyway. Most people should come away feeling like it could have gone differently. It’s an absolute one-sided bloodbath which will kill the fun. I haven’t played against Tyranids or Sisters so can’t really comment on how the rock/paper/scissors might work for those lists.

 

I would definitely try one of the missions where objectives can be destroyed or disappear like the rescue one. It can leave your swarm in the “wrong place” and give the sisters another chance to shoot. But otherwise I fear a horde of gribblies overrunning her lines.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

A few things:

 

1.  Your nids list looks really good, and like it will put a ton of pressure on which your wife will either deal with in the first 2 turns or she will loose.  Not only will this potentially make games very frustrating (as she can't count on having her luck even out over the game - she needs to be lucky in the first 2 ryounds or the game is effectively over)., but it can also make every game feel the same.  My suggestion would be to swap at least half the hormigaunts for termigaunts - my understanding is that hormiguants are considered stronger models in kill team, plus by doing so you reduce that initial pressurr.  You can always swap them back later when you tweak your lists to improve.  By building weaker elements into your list, it gives you the opportunity to have your wife offer her opinion as to what works in your  list - I imagine she will have more fun if you can collaborate on both your lists together, rather than the focus always being on hers and on her "improving".

 

2.  Be very careful of terrain - in particular, try to avoid large pieces of LOS blocking terrain.  In kill team, you get no overwatch if the charging model starts out of LOS, which is a major tactic for melee armies trying to make it into combat with an enemy carrying flamers.  In later games, she can learn to give a wide berth to such terrain, but at the beginning try to avoid having too much of it and avoid exploiting what pieces you do have to your advantage.

 

3.  Another way in which you should play less optimally at first is with model spacing.  I've played killteam with IG with 12 models on the table, and even then it is pretty easy to keep them spaced widely enough that an enemy's flamers and such can only catch one model.  Which, given the way the rules work (multiple attacks on a model don't increase you chance of sending a model out of the game, as you ignore all hits after the first which reduces the model to 0 wounds.  A frag cannon (or heavy flamer) is a lot less impressive if all it can go is potentially remove 1 hormigaunt a turn.

 

4.  I'm not sure what the Gorgon hive fleet trait is, but you may want to consider if it is one of the stronger traits, and if it is, use a different one.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Dr_Ruminahui

[LameBeard]

Good point in (2). I find the fact that you can charge without LOS but can’t overwatch the most annoying rule combination in Kill Team. My son and I house rule it, because overwatch is already too weak and it also breaks immersion - the whole idea of overwatch is keeping your finger on the trigger in case a nightmare of fangs and talons comes charging round that corner. But we do play on very dense terrain.

 

My idea was to get maybe walkways or ravines or lakes which increase charging distance but keep good LOS.

 

I also agree on dropping “Gorgon” even though I have no idea what it does. They kind of admit that the sub-faction rules are for flavour and not especially balanced. Does the Sisters side get a sub-faction rule?

[Lord Raven 19]

The subfaction rules are found in kill team elites. Gorgon gives reroll wound rolls of 1 in the fight phase.

[Brother Tyler]

They kind of admit that the sub-faction rules are for flavour and not especially balanced.

When and where did they say this?  

 

Does the Sisters side get a sub-faction rule?

The Adepta Sororitas are not in the Elites book. Both the [Kill Team] Elites and [Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition] Codex: Adepta Sororitas were published in 2019. The Adepta Sororitas were originally introduced to Kill Team via White Dwarf, later updated in the Kill Team Annual 2019. That book also lacks sub-faction rules for the Adepta Sororitas. I assume that an update of Kill Team (i.e., a "new edition") will include sub-faction rules for the Adepta Sororitas in whatever publication they include sub-faction rules (hopefully in a new Core Rulebook, but there's no telling).

 

All that said, it might be worthwhile for a Homegrown Rules project to develop Kill Team sub-faction rules for the Adepta Sororitas based on their Warhammer 40,000 Order Convictions (and a comparison with other factions' sub-faction rules to preserve some balance). That would be separate from this discussion, though.

 

Something you might consider is a homegrown scenario that is weighted in her favor. There are plenty of ways that you can create thematic scenarios that appeal to her love of narrative and suspense. Make the first one easy, giving her a chance to get her feet wet and learn the basic mechanics. The second one can be a bit more difficult, giving her more complex choices. The third one can be the most complex, allowing her to incorporate everything she has learned so far, and a bit more. The first might require limited maneuver on her part - perhaps a defensive scenario where she might have to re-position models. This scenario might give her the victory objective of having at least one model survive (i.e., she only loses if every one of her models dies). This might represent something like defending a shrine or something similar. The second might require a bit more movement - perhaps something where she has to move something to some point (and she might be able to hand it off between models). This might represent something like carrying a holy relic to an evacuation site/sanctuary. The third might allow for the most movement and most complex terrain. This might be closest to one of the standard scenarios and be the most even (especially if she has won the first two games). In all of these, arrangement of terrain will be paramount. Plenty of good advice has been offered above so I won't repeat it.

[LameBeard]

 

They kind of admit that the sub-faction rules are for flavour and not especially balanced.

When and where did they say this?

Hmmm, I thought Elites said something like “sub-faction abilities are not recommended for matched play” but now I can’t see it. Maybe it was in that grid they published of expansions recommended for competitive play (which basically said ‘not commanders’)? Was that in a White Dwarf?

 

Anyway, I stick with my suggestion. The sub-faction ability is a free buff to the tyranids, the Sororitas aren’t getting one.