Secondary Objectives

[Beams]

Hey,

 

So -- I am looking at playing a match tomorrow at 750 pts, 2v2 (I am playing Sisters, my partner is playing Necrons, and we are fighting Space Wolves and Dark Angels). The models that I have painted up to at least 3 color standard let me take something along the lines of this:

 

Canoness (Blessed Blade, Iron Suplice, Word of The Emperor) 

Dogmata

Battlesister Squad (10 Models, Combiflamer, Heavy Flamer, Flamer)

Celestian Squad (5 Models, Power Maul) 

Sacresants (10 Models, Spear of Faithful, Blessed Maces)

Paragon Warsuits (3 Models)

 

I had more painted up, but maybe 2 years ago I switched from OoML to Bloody Rose so my models would show up in pictures better (Too much black armor!) and then we transitioned to mostly playing SWARG/KILL TEAM.

 

I am looking at the Sisters Objectives -- they seem really fluffy, but also really difficult? The AoF one seems like I'd have to take Litanies of Faith to just have a chance at getting it, and even then, it might be rough? 

 

Any ideas on which ones would be useful to take, and why? I haven't used any of the new ones yet, so was hoping to get some feedback on what everyone had success with, or if there is any secondary objectives from the main lists that you prefer and why? 

[Purifying Tempest]

Defend the Shrine is decent if you have the capability to take-and-hold an objective.  It requires the objective to NOT be in your opponent's deployment zone, and I think it plays into 2 things we do pretty well: controlling an objective, and outlasting.  I think I've scored 12+ on it in both of my games.  It is helpful that you score it at the end of each turn AND the end of the game, so you can miss it a turn and still max it out.  And end of turn allows you to be pretty flexible with it.

 

A Leap of Faith is straight garbage.  I hate to be negative, but I've tried it in both of those games... and where Defend the Shrine got me decent VPs, A Leap of Faith took all of that away.  Main problems exist in that the first couple of turns you have so few MD, and unless you play Sacred Rose... I don't see how it is possible to score 10+.  Even as Sacred Rose I had problems pulling off the requisite number of MDs to land the points.  I would not advocate it at all.

 

The Holy Trinity secondary... I wouldn't chase that, ESPECIALLY in a lower point game.  Your opponent won't field enough units to make it valuable to you.  And that's compounded by playing Bloody Rose and melee attacks not being on the scoring list.

 

Sacred Ground looks difficult, and it is important to note that DCA and Crusaders cannot perform that action, so I doubt it will see much play in matched play.  I've had little to no interest in it, and I've tried A Leap of Faith, haha.

 

So of all of the ones, I think Defend the Shrine is about the only one that may see play, and even then you're allowing your opponent to make critical decisions on your army movement after deployment (they nominate the Shrine after all deployment has completed).  I like it for the thematics, but I doubt that kinda of power being given to your opponent will fly at more competitive tables.  ESPECIALLY with a caveat for your opponent being able to reduce your VP by 3 at the end of the game if they managed to outlast you.  But of the 4... I think it is the most likely to be seen... and yield a reasonable tally of VPs across a game.

[Beams]

Defend the Shrine is decent if you have the capability to take-and-hold an objective.  It requires the objective to NOT be in your opponent's deployment zone, and I think it plays into 2 things we do pretty well: controlling an objective, and outlasting.  I think I've scored 12+ on it in both of my games.  It is helpful that you score it at the end of each turn AND the end of the game, so you can miss it a turn and still max it out.  And end of turn allows you to be pretty flexible with it.

 

A Leap of Faith is straight garbage.  I hate to be negative, but I've tried it in both of those games... and where Defend the Shrine got me decent VPs, A Leap of Faith took all of that away.  Main problems exist in that the first couple of turns you have so few MD, and unless you play Sacred Rose... I don't see how it is possible to score 10+.  Even as Sacred Rose I had problems pulling off the requisite number of MDs to land the points.  I would not advocate it at all.

 

The Holy Trinity secondary... I wouldn't chase that, ESPECIALLY in a lower point game.  Your opponent won't field enough units to make it valuable to you.  And that's compounded by playing Bloody Rose and melee attacks not being on the scoring list.

 

Sacred Ground looks difficult, and it is important to note that DCA and Crusaders cannot perform that action, so I doubt it will see much play in matched play.  I've had little to no interest in it, and I've tried A Leap of Faith, haha.

 

So of all of the ones, I think Defend the Shrine is about the only one that may see play, and even then you're allowing your opponent to make critical decisions on your army movement after deployment (they nominate the Shrine after all deployment has completed).  I like it for the thematics, but I doubt that kinda of power being given to your opponent will fly at more competitive tables.  ESPECIALLY with a caveat for your opponent being able to reduce your VP by 3 at the end of the game if they managed to outlast you.  But of the 4... I think it is the most likely to be seen... and yield a reasonable tally of VPs across a game.

 

I had to re-read Sacred Grounds after you mentioned that -- I didn't realize that it lasted until the end of your NEXT command phase! That's a lot, since that means there is a lot of ways for the opponent to really mess with you. I initially really liked it as a fluffy bit of rules! It initially looked like to me, you are moving in a holy procession/pilgrimmage across the board! But if it's that easy for the opponnent to deny it, just by charging you or killing your models in their turn, and you need to get it done 4 out of 5 rounds to get max points in it, and all outside your deployment zone? That looks really really hard. 

 

I was thinking the same about the Leap of Faith. I only generate 1 MD a turn, and I guess I could take Litanies for 2, but that's still going to be tough to make sure that I am using 2 AoF in the enemies turn, especially if I roll low on those dice!

[SkimaskMohawk]

Sacred grounds and defend the shrine are mission dependant. Any mission with objectives partially in your deployment zone makes sacred grounds easy to score with throwaway battle sister squads or support characters. Similarly, any mission with equidistant no man's land objectives works well with defend the shrine, but it's definitely not something you want to pick on maps where you they can make it an objective all the way on the other side of the board.

[Purifying Tempest]

@Beams - it was definitely a feel bad moment at throwing 2s on Armor Saves just to force Morale Checks to throw another 1 or 2 at... just to score 2 VPs.  I mean, that's the ebb and flow of the game with MD, but those 2 VPs definitely did not feel like a win... more like a consolation prize.

 

And even 2/turn on your opponent's turn is 10 VPs a game... provided you go second or have 2 available somehow at game start.  That's 10 VP.  You're still going to need to find a way to play another on your opponent's turn, or find ways to toss 2-3 on your turn as well.  And that's not counting if you're holding 2 for forcing charges, since those 2 MD are only 1 AoF.  Also cannot hold MD for Miraculous Abilities (their activations are not AoF).  Faith and Fury doesn't trigger it, since the second is not an AoF.  Moment of Grace and Divine Intervention are also hurt by it.

 

The more I think on it, the less I like that secondary at all, and how it actively works against the army for such a small VP gain turn-by-turn.

[Beams]

@Beams - it was definitely a feel bad moment at throwing 2s on Armor Saves just to force Morale Checks to throw another 1 or 2 at... just to score 2 VPs.  I mean, that's the ebb and flow of the game with MD, but those 2 VPs definitely did not feel like a win... more like a consolation prize.

 

And even 2/turn on your opponent's turn is 10 VPs a game... provided you go second or have 2 available somehow at game start.  That's 10 VP.  You're still going to need to find a way to play another on your opponent's turn, or find ways to toss 2-3 on your turn as well.  And that's not counting if you're holding 2 for forcing charges, since those 2 MD are only 1 AoF.  Also cannot hold MD for Miraculous Abilities (their activations are not AoF).  Faith and Fury doesn't trigger it, since the second is not an AoF.  Moment of Grace and Divine Intervention are also hurt by it.

 

The more I think on it, the less I like that secondary at all, and how it actively works against the army for such a small VP gain turn-by-turn.

 

I think it's possible to make a list that handles that objective well, at higher points.

 

Base 1 MD a turn

Triumph of St Katherine, 1 MD a turn (220 pts) 

Litanies of Faith, 1 MD a turn (1 CP)

Sisters Terrain Piece + 25 pt Priest, 1 MD a Turn

Plus (a potential) 2 MD a turn from dying and killing? 

 

In a 2000 pt game, that could be 6 MD a turn, and you could spare a few to make sure that it works, but that's still 325 pts plus 1 CP to get that. and then you'll still have to likely pay for banners, though I guess I'd be taking them anyway ?

 

What standard secondary's would y'all suggest then? 

[BluejayJunior]

You get MD based off the phase, not per turn. So you can potentially more than 2 MD in your turn. You could kill something in the Command Phase with the MW hymn, in the shooting phase, and/or then the fight phase. It probably doesn't make that Objective much better, but it's worth pointing out. 

[Purifying Tempest]

My opinion is that the army would excel in take-and-hold styled objectives (Banners, Defend the Shrine) and actions that require actions (Crusaders, DCA, Dogmata and other support chars).  Not really fun for chasing big fights and blood baths, but they should be good for us to get points consistently game after game.  Outflanking and small action units seem to do well for scoring Retrieve Octarius Data as well.  I think you'll see a lot of Defend the Shrine/Stranglehold, Banners/Octarius, and then one picked specifically for your opponent (Assassinate, No Prisoners, etc.).

 

I'm curious to think if we could do something like "To The Last" or "Grind Them Down" efficiently with certain builds.  Celestine is incredibly hard to kill, and the Triumph and Morven gain Character privilege and can be extremely hard to kill unless we want them vulnerable... especially with Sacresants lurking around.  Speaking of Sacresants... do they shut off overwatch when you charge with a character that is within 3" of them?  Just a side thought.

 

Grind Them Down could be tough to pull off against lists that build big squads of units, so probably something like Sacred Rose to nullify the impact of morale... though opening up Blast may be less than entertaining if those weapons become more... standard fare.

 

But, honestly, I think you'll see a lot of Stranglehold + Octarius + <insert opponent specific objective here>.  I kinda like Defend the Shrine, though, as instead of focusing on knocking your opponent off of multiple positions, you only need to control 1.  If your opponent is trying to tick Stranglehold while goofing around with you on Defend the Shrine, I think it'll cause him as many problems as it causes you.

[Beams]

You get MD based off the phase, not per turn. So you can potentially more than 2 MD in your turn. You could kill something in the Command Phase with the MW hymn, in the shooting phase, and/or then the fight phase. It probably doesn't make that Objective much better, but it's worth pointing out. 

Hmm... Yeah, that does make that objective better, but it's still not breakfast at tiffany's lol. In a bigger game, I can definitely see getting one during each shooting and fight phase.