Is it just me, or…..

[USNCenturion]

Does GW actively utilize its known content creators on social media to push their new releases?

 

I’ve seen it time and again, a new release is hyped and drops, and the ten to twenty usual suspects put out posts saying how great the release is, look at my release day haul, just painted up the new hotness, etc etc etc.

 

Is this just a new product being consumed and talked about or is there something more directed to this. It can’t be an accident or coincidence that every time I log onto a social account on a release day, I see a few posts of how great everyone’s life is and I think to myself ‘gee, I kinda want this box of X’. These people I’m following buy literally every release.

 

I’m not raging against it or anything, I just want to know I’m not the only one getting severe FOMO with these releases and am seeing it primarily through social media activities. It does seem very targeted.

[Brother Tyler]

It's Marketing 101.

[Antarius]

A lot of the youtubers I follow are quite open about receiving promo copies from GW. To their credit, they don’t neccessarily give the products glowing reviews. I’m somewhat more dubious about people who just happen to buy everything and absolutely loveit all (otoh, I would probably be like that, if I had the time for it, so...).

[Halandaar]

Anybody talking about a "release day haul" probably had to part with their own cash; the people who get freebies from GW to review & generate interest tend to get them in time for when pre-ordered go live. For example, painted minis from Dominion have been popping up for two weeks already, as have video reviews of the AoS3 rulebook.

 

Edit - Also, people receiving free copies of stuff from GW have been specifically declaring so in their videos and posts recently, which I guess has been mandated by GW for transparency because they all started doing it at the same time. So if someone doesn't say they got something for free they probably didn't.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Halandaar

[excelite]

I think it’s quite simple:

 

The content creators want/need to stay relevant. To stay relevant they need to have a steady flow of new content. New content usually needs new to stuff/releases or people will get bored and start ignoring them at some point. If they keep ripping releases apart, they rob themselves of opportunities to create relevant content.

 

On the other hand, if they keep hyping the new hotness, they can create multiple content instances from a single release. Which makes it easier for them to make their money back and depending on the number of their followers: make a living

 

Also if they are positive and timely about the new stuff, they might reach a new audience and they can grow…

 

So I think this is why you see a lot of content creators hype up everything they get their hands on…

[Firedrake Cordova]

Also, people receiving free copies of stuff from GW have been specifically declaring so in their videos and posts recently, which I guess has been mandated by GW for transparency 

It's a legal requirement in some parts of the world (the US, Canada, and UK)

[Halandaar]

 

 

Also, people receiving free copies of stuff from GW have been specifically declaring so in their videos and posts recently, which I guess has been mandated by GW for transparency

It's a legal requirement in some parts of the world (the US, Canada, and UK)

Yeah, I guess I meant more it's being actively done in the last couple of months, which wasn't the case before.

[Firedrake Cordova]

Yeah, I guess I meant more it's being actively done in the last couple of months, which wasn't the case before.

I think there has been a lot of ignorance amongst "influencers" [generally] (oh how I hate that term) as to what constituted an advert ("it's not a paid advertisement, as I was given the product and wasn't paid" type arguments). Various regulators have started using the word "fine" in the last ~6 months, and I think YouTube may also have started "reminding" content creators of this.

[INKS]

If they got free product I am pretty sure they are supposed to tell you by law that they are being sponsored. but yeah it's a thing. not just for 40k but for a lot of games, and items.

[Dark Shepherd]

Have seen a couple of youtubers saying they want the boxes sooner so they can have them painted etc for when embargos lift and offer more than bland unboxing vids

[Noserenda]

From vague memory you absolutely have to declare a sponsorship where you get paid to promote things, getting given free stuff not so much, though its ethical to do so and its usually pretty obvious so best to declare anyway. Obviously laws vary by country.

[N1SB]

Most of my career I spent in product management, a marketing role.  I've been on the other side of this.  I'll share what it's like, because it's both simpler yet different than it seems.  It may seem like A Work (the wrestling term, like it's a fabricated thing made to appear real), but it's actually just work.

 

Does GW actively utilize its known content creators on social media to push their new releases?

 

GW absolutely does.  There is a team that deliberately does outreach.  There are communiques and Non-Disclosure Agreements and embargo dates for when content related to a new product can be released.  This is standard and almost a courtesy.  They recognise people need time to put together a video, can be days or weeks, so GW sends the product in advance so people have a chance to look at it and put together a video.

 

You notice a lot of videos are just unboxings?  It's because it's usually the easiest videos to make.  You gotta open the box anyway, so just set up a camera.

 

Fun Fact - Now, you ever unboxed an Apple product (you didn't have to buy it yourself, I mean like if you ever had to setup an iPad for your mum or something).  Have you noticed their boxes open slowly?  They're a little bit vacuum-packed and you're holding the box by the lid and you let gravity slowly work its magic?  That's not accidental, it is By Design.  Apple deliberately designed their products' boxes to be unboxed slowly...so that you have this sense of anticipation, like opening a Christmas present, you feel the hype just opening a damn box.  It's part of the product semantics, your sheer emotions related to a product.

 

Other related points...

 

 

+++ GW does not have an advertising budget (at least not yet) +++

 

 

Advertising is part of marketing, but not all marketing is advertising.  Advertising I'm just defining as buying an ad.  GW doesn't buy ads...it's very frugal.

 

GW still pays for marketing via other means, but instead of advertising, GW uses:

• Retail stores (any given time that's 50% of GW's operating expenditures)
• White Dwarf magazine at magazine shops (advertising on the rack)
• Now Warhammer Community, Warhammer TV, Warhammer Twitch, etc.
• Licensing its IP to video game companies (it's advertising that pays GW money)
• Even how they design and price their products

Every starter set now has 2 factions in the box, so that 2 players can split it.  How many of people got into Warhammer because an existing player wanted a faction's minis, so he drags a friend into The Hobby to sell him the other half of the box?  A single box of Necron Warriors cost $45, whereas the Recruit Edition costs only $50 and comes with a Necron character AND a bunch of Marines...so that you can practically give those Primaris away and still come out ahead, and recruit a new player.

 

INB4 "well GW's always done this", no, it wasn't.  1st ed 40k was just a really complex rulebook without minis.  GW got more sophisticated afterwards.

 

Because, as we all well know here on a Warhammer forum (my FAVOURITE Warhammer forum), the best form of advertising is:

• Word-of-Mouth (some marketing textbooks call it Peer-to-Peer so they can list it as 1 of the umpteen P's of marketing)

GW's interactions with Key Online Influencers is just an extension of what they've done since not 1st ed 40k, but at least when they did the Epic line shortly afterwards.

 

 

+++ My hard-earned learning that I share freely (so might be worthless) +++

 

 

I have found interactions with Key Online Influencers simpler yet different than what I once assumed.  When I started out, we didn't even use the word "influencers" yet (I join you all in my contempt for that word), it was "bloggers".  I thought it was freebies used for bribery, corruption, nepotism, schmoozing, but I was wrong.  I can sum all of it in 3 points:

1. Content Creators, as their name suggests, create content
2. If you give them content, they'll create something with it
3. If you give them nothing...they'll come up with something on their own

This is almost EXACTLY the same as when dealing with journalists:

1. Journalists have to turn in a story to editors
2. If you give them something, they'll create a story with it
3. If you give them nothing...they'll make up a story
4. The difference: editors usually write the headlines, not the journalist.  This can completely skew a story, journalists don't like this either imho

It's simple, but not easy.  Other companies, your competitors, want influencers and journalists to write about their products, not yours.  So there is competition, but it's not buying people off with free products.  Like inviting people for a hands-on experience for a full day, having the confidence in your product and the respect for their content to let them play with it, set up cameras to film, etc., is usually a better investment than giving away products.  GW's gross profit margin is such that it's actually cheaper for them to give away stuff, though (hence $45 for Necron Warriors when the Recruit Edition is only $50).

 

Because the best way for content creators to help you is for you to help them create content.  I'll give you 2 examples, a good one and a bad one.

 

Bad example - journalist with a major serious newspaper in my locale, one my parents subscribe to.  I showed him some features in an early beta version of the IT product I represented, he liked those, I prepared some screenshots for him.  I expected just a sidebar (like a column), but he ended up a full page.  Problem was, because it was an early beta, it showed my tester ID in the form of my personal email.  Obviously I told him he must remove it, pixelate it or whatever, as it's embarrassing for him to pass off my screenshot as his own testing work.  He gave me his assurances, our own PR manager gave me her assurances.  Next day, I was having dinner with my parents, my mum showed me the full page spread, there were my screenshots with my email address still shown.  And that's how I got doxxed by a major newspaper.

 

Good example - years later, I was demoing the next iteration of the IT product in a similar preview.  I thought myself wiser...but I was just as naive then as before, in a good way.  I could hear the sighs of a dude in the back, journalist-looking guy looked seriously frustrated, but the show must go on.  I felt pretty apprehensive, so I approached him afterwards.  I tried to make things right, like offering the guy a free copy if he found the things I demo'd or my demo itself wanting.  He was like, "Oh, no, I loved what you showed, I already got accepted for the closed beta and I got the hardware from Samsung to install it on.  I was frustrated not knowing what to do with it, then I saw your 'ingredients'."  He used a colloquial Chinese word, it means the stuffing inside food, but translates to "content".  What happened was I went completely off-script with my demo to show what I personally use, that was worth more to him than free software or hardware, because it was content he could build on.  His sighs, it turned out, were like "oh god why didn't I think of that."

 

I was reminded of something one of my wise directors told me, "If you have to pay for loyalty, then it's not loyalty, because loyalty cannot be bought."

 

Content creators want content more than anybody.  When you give it, it's more than content creators getting more content, they feel "you get me, you understand me."  They can be pretty solitary workers as it's just them, their camera and YouTube channel, so they feel they got a colleague, a comrade, perhaps a friend, in you.

 

 

+++ What I think of Warhammer content creators +++

 

 

People who create content for Warhammer, probably love Warhammer.  If they didn't, they probably won't make content for it.  So when those very people get Warhammer stuff, they'll probably love it.  What they perhaps value most is a direct connection to Games Workshop, who is the ultimate Warhammer content creator, even if they complain about them.

 

I imagine it's a little like being a Techpriest being sent a Sanguinary present from the Omnissiah.  The present is nice, but it means even more coming from the Omnissiah.

 

Their not having paid for a preview item does not mean it is free, because their payment is they have to make content based on it.  It's just a different, deferred payment system.  As I've shown you from my experience, the freebie itself does not mean as much as one may think.  What it represents does, like respect for their work.

Edited July 4, 2021 by N1SB

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

+++ My hard-earned learning that I share freely (so might be worthless) +++

Rule of Acquisition Number 59, free advice is seldom cheap....

 

:P

 

But in all seriousness, your insights and analyses are always appreciated Brother. 

[USNCenturion]

Thanks for the responses everyone; very insightful, especially n1sb’s detailed write up. I’m glad it’s not just me noticing it and it’s not anything outright malicious. The content and reviews are certainly appreciated.

[INKS]

In NA this is not true. Even free stuff that you've been given, you have to by law disclose they sent you product. This is true for MTG and Guild Wars 2, both of which have sent me stuff. Even digital product. Like MTG Arena, I had to disclose. 

From vague memory you absolutely have to declare a sponsorship where you get paid to promote things, getting given free stuff not so much, though its ethical to do so and its usually pretty obvious so best to declare anyway. Obviously laws vary by country.

[sarabando]

i despise it, the fake enthusiasm, the open mouth face pressed against he box selfie, the constant "this is the best ever" just for once id like to see an unboxing where the guys looks at the minis and goes "well theyre abit :cuss arent they." just so i know they are being honest. But i know how the system works, you dont get the goodies unless you play ball and give glowing reviews. i think its the reason so many people give the outer circle so much flak because hes pretty much the only somewhat honest voice in a sea of sycophants.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Some of the YTers don’t always have everything good to say though.

[Halandaar]

just for once id like to see an unboxing where the guys looks at the minis and goes "well theyre abit :cuss arent they." just so i know they are being honest.

Why is that automatically honest though? Negativity and outrage sell, there's clicks to be had from it and so there is some incentive to be a contrary voice just for its own sake. And of all things, the minis? I mean that's the universally accepted thing that GW nail time after time. Someone pulling out minis and going "these are a bit crap" would strike me as being obviously contrary rather than honest. Not to your taste? Okay. But objectively bad? They just aren't.

 

There are plenty of people receiving preview stuff with either neutral or negative comments to make about anything from prices to rules to even the timescale they receive products in not actually being sufficient to do a proper review in time for embargoes being lifted. Among the people who just paint stuff (on Instagram inparticular), many of them haven't even passed opinions at all, just show what the models look like painted up in differing ways.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Halandaar

[Emicus]

Don't think I've ever bought a box of warhammer and been disappointed when opening it. Heck I'm pretty excited just to buy it!

 

Slap me I'm front of a camera and call me a shill :/

 

Seems pretty dumb to be in a hobby and spend money on stuff you don't like.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Emicus

[Dark Shepherd]

i despise it, the fake enthusiasm, the open mouth face pressed against he box selfie, the constant "this is the best ever" just for once id like to see an unboxing where the guys looks at the minis and goes "well theyre abit :cuss arent they." just so i know they are being honest. But i know how the system works, you dont get the goodies unless you play ball and give glowing reviews. i think its the reason so many people give the outer circle so much flak because hes pretty much the only somewhat honest voice in a sea of sycophants.

Sorry but theres a middle ground between gushing over everything and complaining about everything all the time. Negativity and honesty are not the same thing. Theres plenty of youtubers who will criticise GW from time to time esp over price (but dont get preview boxes)

[excelite]

 

i despise it, the fake enthusiasm, the open mouth face pressed against he box selfie, the constant "this is the best ever" just for once id like to see an unboxing where the guys looks at the minis and goes "well theyre abit :cuss arent they." just so i know they are being honest. But i know how the system works, you dont get the goodies unless you play ball and give glowing reviews. i think its the reason so many people give the outer circle so much flak because hes pretty much the only somewhat honest voice in a sea of sycophants.

Sorry but theres a middle ground between gushing over everything and complaining about everything all the time. Negativity and honesty are not the same thing. Theres plenty of youtubers who will criticise GW from time to time esp over price (but dont get preview boxes)

I‘m with you about the middle ground, but sadly, nowadays those flashy, one sided, click-baity stuff is way more popular… took me quite some time to teach the yt algorithm that I don’t want that stuff presented…

[Halandaar]

I‘m with you about the middle ground, but sadly, nowadays those flashy, one sided, click-baity stuff is way more popular…

 

I think there is a wider issue all over society at the moment, where the vocal minorities at both ends of every spectrum are getting louder and louder, telling us that you can't be in the middle, you have to be on one side or the other. Nuanced opinions, neutrality, or even conflicting opinions on different issues are simply not allowed.

 

Within the context of this hobby, you're either a hater or a fanboi, a whiner or a shill. We see this language over and again, even on this forum between people who are supposedly fellow hobbyists. The reality is that most of us occupy the middle ground where we like some things and not others.

 

For every over the top "this is the greatest thing ever" video as cited above, there's an exaggerated "Why you SHOULDN'T buy!" or "Here's everything wrong with" video to balance it out. The idea that the content creator community surrounding Warhammer is "a sea of sycophants" is absolutely laughable.

[excelite]

Oh i seconds that, was just trying to be careful to not have this thread drift too much off topic and have the inquisition have a deeper look ;-)

[Firedrake Cordova]

I think there is a wider issue all over society at the moment, where the vocal minorities at both ends of every spectrum are getting louder and louder, telling us that you can't be in the middle, you have to be on one side or the other. Nuanced opinions, neutrality, or even conflicting opinions on different issues are simply not allowed.

Indeed, without wishing to sound alarmist, it's a worrying and potentially exceptionally problematic trend for society as a whole. :(

[Dark Shepherd]

 

 

I think there is a wider issue all over society at the moment, where the vocal minorities at both ends of every spectrum are getting louder and louder, telling us that you can't be in the middle, you have to be on one side or the other. Nuanced opinions, neutrality, or even conflicting opinions on different issues are simply not allowed.

Indeed, without wishing to sound alarmist, it's a worrying and potentially exceptionally problematic trend for society as a whole. :(

Lotta pressure on Warhammer Fantasy Battle reboot to unite the warring tribes