Landraider viability in 9th

[acrowsperch]

Hey,

so more of a modelling project but I still want to make sure I'm not making any missteps, I have a choice between making a landraider and a rhino for my deathguard. The whole army is meant to be ancient, so I'll get FW spartans or something eventually... in years.

 

I'm just wondering, is it worth modelling and converting my Land Raider for death guard? Or are people not really running them.

 

Thanks,

 

 

[Marshal Loss]

If you go to the effort, do it as a labour of love. Tanks in general are pretty bad in 9th and Land Raiders were already subpar before that. I'd choose the Rhino.

 

It appears that a plastic Spartan is coming later this year anyway, so it might be worth waiting.

[Karhedron]

Even with the recent discount in MFM, the consensus is that Land Raiders are just too expensive for what they bring to the table. Ironically, in a DG army, Land Raiders are probably a surprisingly fragile use of your points.

 

Rhinos are a cheap way to get your tough infantry where they need to be. Hellbrutes and Daemon Engines provide firepower and/or melee punch much more efficiently.

[INKS]

Most of the time aren't you taking terminators and poxwalkers, so Rhinos wouldn't really be used?

[acrowsperch]

Awesome thank you guys! Excited for the plastic spartan now.

 

It would be a labor of love if I did it, but I think I'll go with the rhino and let the land raider be for my small force of night lords in the works.

 

cheers

[Plague _Lord]

Before this codex came out I used my Land Raider in every game and it was... meh. Too many times have I rolled multiple 1's and 2's on those lascannons to keep count and it's extremely frustrating that your 280pts did nothing. It was decently tough though, especially when we could give DR to it... it just didn't do much.

 

TBH GW is just lazy - either increase the transport capacity so that you can acutally drive around with a decently sized unit of termies/possessed, while at the same time cutting costs to something lie 190-200pts or keep it expensive but give it actual special rules. I would be glad to use my LR if it had BS 2+, 20 wounds, a FnP vs MWs and DR and I would use it even for 300points. Even only BS2+ would make it somewhat viable for accurate AT.

[Karhedron]

To be fair the loyalist Landraider Crusader has a larger transport capacity but even so, it does not see a great deal of use.

The problem is that LRs pay a premium for being both a transport and a gun platform but it is very hard to effectively leverage both capabilities at the same time. If you sit back and shoot, you are wasting the Transport capability. If you move up to deliver infantry, you risk getting tagged in melee which inhibits your shooting.

There are plenty of ways the LR could be buffed but it is a 20-year old model. No matter how iconic it is, don't expect GW to lavish much effort on it. To be honest I think the way GW is planning to fix the Landraider is by releasing the Spartan. 

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Before this codex came out I used my Land Raider in every game and it was... meh. Too many times have I rolled multiple 1's and 2's on those lascannons to keep count and it's extremely frustrating that your 280pts did nothing. It was decently tough though, especially when we could give DR to it... it just didn't do much.

 

TBH GW is just lazy - either increase the transport capacity so that you can acutally drive around with a decently sized unit of termies/possessed, while at the same time cutting costs to something lie 190-200pts or keep it expensive but give it actual special rules. I would be glad to use my LR if it had BS 2+, 20 wounds, a FnP vs MWs and DR and I would use it even for 300points. Even only BS2+ would make it somewhat viable for accurate AT.

Actually I like that.

 

BS 2+ due to advanced machine spirits

 

Give it a variation of Assault ramp again (some of the primaris stuff has a move Then disembark rule that would do

 

Maybe a FNP type save that can save a max of 3 wounds a phase (due to advanced self repair)

 

That would put it in a unique position compared to our other heavy support which might be a good reason to take it over something else

[Relentless]

The chaos land raider would be vastly improved with just a weapon upgrade sprue.  I dont want 4 lascannons.  I want heavy bolter sponsons, or heavy flamers, or a multi-melta pintle mount.  And for the love of god GW, please make the Havoc launcher AP-1 or D2 or anything to make it worth taking.

[Tipper]

Oh yeah, Relentless! A heavy flamer! Or better yet, Plague Spewer! Drop a squad off in an objective and then bathe the enemy in death… a beautiful dream, that will never come true.

[KingYertle]

Honestly just give the LR a 5++ Invul and I would be happy.   Make it a Daemon Engine if you need to justify it  Once upon a time I believe the fluff was that their machine spirit was daemon possessed.

 

After Psychic Awakening I lovingly converted a DG Land Raider but sadly it never saw use before our 9th Edition Codex eliminated Contaminated Monstrosity.   If you enjoy converting, then I would recommend building the Death Guard LR as their are so many thematic options to make it unique.  But if your goal is purely best fit competitive, then unfortunately I agree that the LR is in a difficult spot due to how lethal anti-tank weapons have become.

[acrowsperch]

Slight necro, sorry mods, I'm at the same crossroads without a decision. I've kind of made the leap of deciding on eventually getting Terraxes for each squad considering my subterranean theme-- however I don't know if the LR is warranted for the other project.

 

Here is the full scope:

I have a large-ish, Death Guard+Lost and the Damned joint force I'm making (and actually making painting progress on) while starting to collecting bits for a thematic Night Lords squad in the spirit of First Claw from ADB's trilogy. Death Guard wise, as of right now, I have about three full 10 man squads of plague marines, 5 blight lords, and 3 death shroud. Would it be better to just deepstrike them? What I have to build is 1 Rhino and 1 Land Raider and I'm hoping to try to make friends at an LGS soon. Everyone says the LR isn't worth it, at the same time I'm not sure if it's worth giving it to my 10 man squad of Night Lords? I know I'm echoing myself, I'm just worried about wasting the money and really want to make it a cool piece and start collecting the bits for it.

 

Thanks again everyone.

[KingYertle]

From the pictures in "The Dirge" WIP post, it looks like you have a great eye for cutting together models to make something new and fantastic!  On that alone, I would say to hell with competitiveness, a converted Death Guard Land Raider will look great as a center piece model in your display cabinet.

 

One of the issues with the LR, is that it really doesn't get any benefit from being a Death Guard LR, other than Inexorable Advance allowing it to ignore the -1 penalty for firing HW into melee.  DG don't have much stratagem support other that the usual suspects, Smoke for the -1 to hit, and the machine spirit strat to fire on your top profile.  I'm not very up-to-date on Night Lords, but their legion trait is a Ld debuff and they have some great stratagems that assist with charging from deep strike.  So a LR doesn't appear to gain much from being Night Lords vs being Death Guard.  Most Death Guard infantry is inherently slow, so perhaps they benefit a bit more from a transport.

 

The trouble with the LR, is that it is an expensive unit.  In the realm of d3+3 anti-tank weapons, the 4 Dd6 lascannons can be unreliable.  The PBC is perhaps a more reliable offensive weapon, and significantly cheaper.  That said, if your plan is to play a few friendly pick up games at your LGS, and you're not playing top tier competitive lists, the LR is not a terrible unit.  Being able to push a unit of Plaguemarines with a support character up the board quickly in a package that is more deadly and more resilient than a rhino is a plus.  What I would suggest is to fill out your army with some additional large threats, such as a PBC, or a Blighthauler/BlightDrone to make sure your LR isn't sitting pretty as the only viable target for your opponents anti-tank weapons.  

 

You mention in your army blog that you've been in the hobby 12 years.  I've been in for 25+.  My basement is full of grey plastic that is unlikely to ever see a can of spray paint.  Don't fret about wasting money, in this hobby that is a given.  Just go with whatever brings you the most joy.

[acrowsperch]

From the pictures in "The Dirge" WIP post, it looks like you have a great eye for cutting together models to make something new and fantastic!  On that alone, I would say to hell with competitiveness, a converted Death Guard Land Raider will look great as a center piece model in your display cabinet.

 

One of the issues with the LR, is that it really doesn't get any benefit from being a Death Guard LR, other than Inexorable Advance allowing it to ignore the -1 penalty for firing HW into melee.  DG don't have much stratagem support other that the usual suspects, Smoke for the -1 to hit, and the machine spirit strat to fire on your top profile.  I'm not very up-to-date on Night Lords, but their legion trait is a Ld debuff and they have some great stratagems that assist with charging from deep strike.  So a LR doesn't appear to gain much from being Night Lords vs being Death Guard.  Most Death Guard infantry is inherently slow, so perhaps they benefit a bit more from a transport.

 

The trouble with the LR, is that it is an expensive unit.  In the realm of d3+3 anti-tank weapons, the 4 Dd6 lascannons can be unreliable.  The PBC is perhaps a more reliable offensive weapon, and significantly cheaper.  That said, if your plan is to play a few friendly pick up games at your LGS, and you're not playing top tier competitive lists, the LR is not a terrible unit.  Being able to push a unit of Plaguemarines with a support character up the board quickly in a package that is more deadly and more resilient than a rhino is a plus.  What I would suggest is to fill out your army with some additional large threats, such as a PBC, or a Blighthauler/BlightDrone to make sure your LR isn't sitting pretty as the only viable target for your opponents anti-tank weapons.  

 

You mention in your army blog that you've been in the hobby 12 years.  I've been in for 25+.  My basement is full of grey plastic that is unlikely to ever see a can of spray paint.  Don't fret about wasting money, in this hobby that is a given.  Just go with whatever brings you the most joy.

This is awesome advice, and thank you so much for your compliments on my cutting and pasting. I have 3 pbcs waiting for good weather to prime, so that's a given. I'll plan on doing my LR for my Death Guard unless the plastic Spartan rumor becomes reality. Thank you so much, again.