Kill-Team New Edition Box

[Lord Marshal]

I don’t know if it’s the same for a lot of other people, but the minute they revealed that new KT had a wildly different system from 40K my interest in it vanished. I simply have no time nor the will to learn a different game with different mechanics.

It wasn’t even a matter of price or content of the starter box, but the game system itself.

 

On top of that, the severe limitations to KT composition compared to the past and the lack of point costs were the nail in the coffin, at least for me.

Any KT product I might buy in the future will be only due to the possibility of using it in 40K proper.

 

It's the opposite for me. I've no real interest in "40k but smaller" when I've got stacks of 40k books already. There's no lack of better skirmish systems (both GW and especially non-GW) out there.

 

It made things easier for people to get into, but the novelty factor also wore off extremely quickly around here. A lot of people got into it, but a lot of people went back to 40k very quickly because they had this really wild idea about playing Kill-Team but with more models and there's this thing called Warhammer 40,000 set in the same universe with very similar rules... and by the time Commanders and Elite released, the shops around me had them gathering dust. A month or so into KT18 we had campaigns and tournaments of around 30 people locally, but before the Pandemic hit you had maybe 3-5 if you advertised it.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Lord Marshal

[Firedrake Cordova]

I don’t know if it’s the same for a lot of other people, but the minute they revealed that new KT had a wildly different system from 40K my interest in it vanished. I simply have no time nor the will to learn a different game with different mechanics.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it having a different rules system, if that allows a more granular approach to model statistics, so all of the races are meaningfully different/faithfully represented. There again, I'm lucky insofar as I have a good memory and can keep the rules for quite a few games in my head at the same time

 

Having said that, from what I've seen of the game from "let's play" videos, it leaves me a little cold, largely down to the condensed board and 4 turn limit feeling a bit limiting (it makes for a quicker game, but there seems to be less skulking around, and seems to degenerate into a mob in the middle of the board turn 2). :/

[Arkhanist]

Yeah, something self contained and simplified over 40k, along with a much larger scale for stats (such as multiple d6 for every weapon, more wounds, but defence rolloff) to allow for better showing the difference between a lasgun and a rocket launcher, allowing a horde of mooks to be on an even footing with a handful of super humans without making it super swingy (alternating activation! finally!) and have the granularity of kit options that 40k doesn't; that was a major draw. If I wanted mini 40k, I'd play combat patrol size games.

 

A short game that doesn't take all evening might even tempt the missus to play!

[Khornestar]

I don’t know if it’s the same for a lot of other people, but the minute they revealed that new KT had a wildly different system from 40K my interest in it vanished. I simply have no time nor the will to learn a different game with different mechanics.

It wasn’t even a matter of price or content of the starter box, but the game system itself.

 

On top of that, the severe limitations to KT composition compared to the past and the lack of point costs were the nail in the coffin, at least for me.

Any KT product I might buy in the future will be only due to the possibility of using it in 40K proper.

 

 

Quite the opposite for me as well. In my opinion, the 40k system is not good; i.e. it's just not a good game. It's really fun, but it's not good. As much as I love having all my cool minis on the table, I'm not that big a fan of the gameplay. I guess one could argue whether fun and good are synonymous, but that isn't the point. Specifically because they created a new system, I am extremely interested in Kill Team. The 9th edition rules are so all over the place, for me it's just not worth the amount of effort to learn.

 

Kill Team isn't going to be the perfect competitive game, as it will still be tied to the GW release/product cycle (and it's an ephemeral thing to begin with), but it's a different ruleset. I want to give them a chance to actually try and make a good game while selling great miniatures at the same time. Here is their shot. I was more than willing to support this experiment with my dollars.

[Domhnall]

Nope, I'm not getting kill team this time around. I bought the rule book last edition, and haven't played a game of it. 

 

...

 

One email from online store telling me "there's still time to order", and I've bought the rule book. 

 

I'll probably still never play a game of it, but shiny shiny! 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Domhnall

[ThePenitentOne]

Ordered my copy through my store. It was nice not having to deal with the electronic queue myself- I just let them handle it and call in my payment info once the deed had been done. Lots of extra swag too- art cards are a nice touch, but not that big a deal, but this time around, I think there's a set of dogtags involved, and of course Grey Knight Coins for objective markers.

 

Personally, I love 25 PL Crusade and the way it integrates and scales with the main game that I have no interest in another "Entry level" 40k. Crusade Killed my interest in KT2018- it's just a better game IMHO because its campaign/ progression system as far beyond what KT2018 had to offer, and because it integrates seamlessly into 40k via escalation rules.

 

I like KT's notion of fire teams; I kinda pity the SM players though, who only get to take one fireteam to the battle. In their review, the Goons made the point that SM have more types of fireteam available than any other faction, and that their roster design will allow SM players to have 4 full fireteams at their disposal, increasing the likelihood that they have the right tool for a given job. I think that is interesting, and over the course of a campaign, that might actually be a really cool feature... But in the game-at-a-time short term, I can see how it reinforces the feeling that there are few options to customize the team.

 

Looking very forward to this. Hoping to have the minis ready by the time my wife returns from an out of province trip- I think she might like this game.

[Halandaar]

Got to agree with several of the above posts, new Kill Team being a game in its own right appeals to me much more than it being a scaled-down 40k. It was good for that at one time, but imo Combat Patrol and particularly Crusade have replaced the need for it to serve that function.

[Dark Shepherd]

Looking at compendium rules specifically deathwatch, if you have a 'combi' weapon you can shoot with both profiles as it has the limited keyword?

 

So taking non combi weapons for the Deathwatch Gunner would be redundant?

[Arkhanist]

Looking at compendium rules specifically deathwatch, if you have a 'combi' weapon you can shoot with both profiles as it has the limited keyword?

 

So taking non combi weapons for the Deathwatch Gunner would be redundant?

Because it has the 'combi' keyword, he counts as also equipped with a deathwatch bolter. From what I've seen of the rules, you can only select one ranged weapon for a shooting action, so you'd have to choose the bolter or the combi part for a shooting attack as they're effectively two weapons on the datasheet. The combi weapons also have the 'limited' keyword, while the normal special weapons do not. A quick check on the USR - 'limited: this weapon can only be selected for use once per battle'.

 

So a normal special weapon can be fired with its profile every time; a combi can fire that effect once per game, all other shooting attacks would use one of the deathwatch bolter ammo profiles. Could be worthwhile with the combi flamer or combi melta given their limited range (so you can fire the bolter part when outside of it), but you'd definitely pick normal plasma over combi plasma I think, and same for grav.

 

I also think I've finally found a use for the non genestealer cult models in deathwatch:overkill, or at least some of them!

Edited August 16, 2021 by Arkhanist

[Dark Shepherd]

Cheers. Think I have at least 10 redundant Plasma guns from Space Wolves sprues :)

[animal310]

This is the second big ‘one print run and done’ that they have not sold out on, by a long way by the look of things. This and the Dominion box. Personally I feel they are just rehashing things too quickly. Did AOS really need a new version this quickly? Same with Kill Team.

 

The current public relation disasters might be a factor as well but I’m not sure how much of an impact that kind of thing really has. If the product is good enough people will buy.

 

I considered this release but when I saw that they were just straight up taking the piss with the cost of the compendium I just bailed on the whole thing.

 

If this had been a starter set HH release, Epic starter set, Emperors Children or World Eaters I would have been all over it.

Edited August 17, 2021 by animal310

[Hfran Morkai]

If this had been a starter set HH release, I would have been all over it.

This is why I didn't jump on it. With October being free of 40K stuff I'm thinking it may be soon for that box and I'm keeping myself open.

[excelite]

I don’t think one can interpret a lot into the sales from the GW website…

 

It seems like there was an huge amount printed (dark side I think said they got an allocation of 900+ boxes). Others had a nice amount too. I personally don’t have to have that metal gauge, instead I went for a 23% discount… the two 3rd party stores I usually order from sold out and are currently on a mto preorder basis

[Dark Shepherd]

The offboard box is last chance to buy but think its been like that for weeks?

The relevancy of that is that is pretty much the sweet spot of supply meeting demand

 

The combat gage freebie doesnt expire til Oct 31st so we only know if theyve hit 27500 direct sales when that sells out. Im sure a few boxes of this might be Christmas presents too if it lasts.

 

Greater warning signs would be FLGS offering extra discounts. Its still in stock at Element and Darksphere at 20/25% off.

 

Given margins and reboxing it would be a sales success even around the 60 or 70% sales mark. Taking up warehouse space would be a bigger issue.

 

They made a rod for their own backs with the 9th ed free PDFS. Thats what the Compendium shouldve been and would have sold more gaming bits too. But some of them are overpriced. And margin on books is huge

[Lexington]

Just read through this battle report from Goonhammer (feel like I'm becoming an unpaid hype-man for them lately...), and it's exciting. Getting some very big Infinity vibes from the granularity the breadth of the problem space and the way every game becomes extremely different with different terrain/object combos. This looks to be something special.

[Lord Marshal]

I don't think it can be understated how much of an impact scalpers more than likely had on things.

 

A perfect example are Black Library's limited editions. I've used this example a few times, but I do think it's still relevant. Prior to Siege of Terra, your odds of getting a limited edition were extremely good. Even the more popular authors like ADB still had Emperor's Spears take a good couple of days to sell out, which itself was an exception. The Warmaster, Khan and Corax's limited editions were around for over a year. I remember I grabbed Lords of Silence's LE a good few months down the line.

 

Compare that to what happened after Siege of Terra's first LE. Now, even the most blah, unremarkable LEs sell out in minutes, tops. Compare The Warmaster taking well over a year (and a push from a Community article) despite it being a big, hyped up box for a series that'd been away for years to The Vincula Insurgency, what amounted to a filler short story, selling out in minutes despite the queue system. Even standard print hardbacks vanish within a day because scalpers put them on Ebay for inflated prices. Bloody hardbacks!

 

And this is just talking about books, which we know are the only part of the business that's really struggled in terms of profit. If we apply that to their model release, scalpers probably stand to make a lot more cramming 'rare' boxes into their carts in sizeable numbers. Give everybody who's desperate enough to buy from a scalper a reasonable chance to buy a box and ignore them though and the incentive/profit nosdives dramatically.

 

Plus there's always the possibility GW actually produced a lot of boxes.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Lord Marshal

[01RTB01]

This is the second big ‘one print run and done’ that they have not sold out on, by a long way by the look of things. This and the Dominion box. Personally I feel they are just rehashing things too quickly. Did AOS really need a new version this quickly? Same with Kill Team.

 

The current public relation disasters might be a factor as well but I’m not sure how much of an impact that kind of thing really has. If the product is good enough people will buy.

 

I considered this release but when I saw that they were just straight up taking the piss with the cost of the compendium I just bailed on the whole thing.

 

If this had been a starter set HH release, Epic starter set, Emperors Children or World Eaters I would have been all over it.

As always with the internet the most vocal tend to be in the minority.

 

AoS was ready for a new edition (3 years have passed) and kill team was a mess without a purpose. It and combat patrol were arguably at odds so it needed something new. KT looks like it will achieve that.

 

The compendium ultimately is the cost of a codex. Generally we play with friends so everyone chipping in for the local group's compendium as a tie over isn't unreasonable.

 

Also just because you didn't want it, doesn't mean the rest of us didn't. I've grabbed two KT boxes myself. As always individual mileage will vary but don't assume your view is the only one which is how it comes across. KT and dominion may not have sold out but that doesn't mean they haven't been popular. I'd wager they've overproduced based on the success of Indomitus. Time will tell

 

Ultimately better off having too many produced than a cursed city repeat.

[Arkhanist]

This is the second big ‘one print run and done’ that they have not sold out on, by a long way by the look of things. This and the Dominion box. Personally I feel they are just rehashing things too quickly. Did AOS really need a new version this quickly? Same with Kill Team.

 

The current public relation disasters might be a factor as well but I’m not sure how much of an impact that kind of thing really has. If the product is good enough people will buy.

 

I considered this release but when I saw that they were just straight up taking the piss with the cost of the compendium I just bailed on the whole thing.

 

If this had been a starter set HH release, Epic starter set, Emperors Children or World Eaters I would have been all over it.

I think Dominion did sell out, but it took a week or so to do it. They reportedly made twice as many as Indomitus, for a smaller market - AoS is definitely not as big a seller as space marines, despite GW's attempts to push fantasy marines so, so hard.

 

And Krieg are definitely popular, but again, not on the same scale as marines. There's been a number of people on this thread who didn't want either team in the big box - which is fine; not everything appeals to everyone, and hopefully we're not all 'must buy everything GW makes!!'. I'm sure it will sell out before the pre-order window even closes.

 

Pricing is definitely high for what it is (a £95 list price would have been nicer!) but that's because of GW's eyewatering scenery prices. For the compendium... the indexes were what, £15 each and you could easily end up needing multiple - and they were definitely very temporary until you then had to buy the codexes as well. I think it is a bit overpriced, but eh, if you're that bothered just screencap the relevent pages from the youtube reviews.

 

I think the real outlier was cursed city, that really took them by surprise, and they've been overcompensating a bit since. Frankly, I'd much rather see this, where demand doesn't immediately demolish supply in 10 minutes, and people have the option of MTO - rather than FOMO and scalpers making money hand over fist.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Arkhanist

[Lord Marshal]

I think Dominion did sell out, but it took a week or so to do it. 

 

You can still get Dominion and the GW Direct bonuses.

 

(SELLING FAST!)

[Arkhanist]

 

I think Dominion did sell out, but it took a week or so to do it. 

 

You can still get Dominion and the GW Direct bonuses.

 

(SELLING FAST!)

 

I stand corrected, I saw it disppear from the main pages and get replaced by the starters, so assumed it was all gone, rather than hidden away!

[01RTB01]

There's plenty on store shelves.

[Noserenda]

Oh im all aboard with the new Kill team, the rules look excellent. Ill just be waiting for a better starter to get my own rulebook and compendium is a savage cash grab so ill be avoiding that too.

Dominion is doing what they really intended Indomnitus (And cursed city...) to do, hanging around for a bit and not getting reprinted. Noone sane had any serious expectations of it being as popular as Indomnitus.

[excelite]

Will be interesting to see if the there will be a real starter box… with the quarterly boxes it kind of seems implausible to me since I wouldn’t expect them to keep adding the rule book so often it’s just added cost that seems unnecessary

[RedRowan]

Just read through this battle report from Goonhammer (feel like I'm becoming an unpaid hype-man for them lately...), and it's exciting. Getting some very big Infinity vibes from the granularity the breadth of the problem space and the way every game becomes extremely different with different terrain/object combos. This looks to be something special.

 

It is a really good write up and I found the Thoughts section at the end interesting too. Certainly made me even more excited to play this new version myself.

 

Steve

[Petitioner's City]

I was watching a review on youtube and wondered, it wouldn't be too hard to add points into new Kill Team and let players better pick minis. This is the system I've come up with, equating a total Kill Team to 1680 (a number divisible by 10, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1), with fire teams totalling either 1680 or 840 points (depending on how many fire teams a kill team could have), then dividing them by the number of minis in them.

 

Not exactly granular as a pointing mechanic, not fancy, but something which allows a bit more of a pick and mix (especially for marine players, but I presume also Tyranid and Ork players once I get tot ehm).

 

 

So far I've done Imperial teams, will do others soonish.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Petitioner's City