Black Templar Teaser and Rumors

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The rumours are new scout models.

[Eberious]

Right ok,

 

I've never been overly vocal on the whole thing with with BT rumours  in past years and still sceptical (by nature so not entirely my fault) now on the size of any updates. Of course with not being in the in crowd of those with privileges to see whats coming, unlike us mere mortals. 

 

However after reading the bit at the bottom of the GW community post regarding the up coming new warzone

 

I'm starting to believe. 

 

[Ishagu]

The rumours are new scout models.

Maybe, they might look like them, but they'll also need to have the Primaris keyword otherwise they won't be able to use the new transports?

 

Will be interesting to see how it works because my understanding is that the extra Primaris organs are introduced last, so from a lore point of view how can you have a scout that is also a Primaris? They aren't even full Marines. Lol I don't know, maybe I'm thinking too hard about it.

 

I'm imagining they'll look like Scouts, but will be a clear and unique neophyte infantry model.

[Blindhamster]

 

The rumours are new scout models.

Maybe, they might look like them, but they'll also need to have the Primaris keyword otherwise they won't be able to use the new transports?

 

Will be interesting to see how it works because my understanding is that the extra Primaris organs are introduced last, so from a lore point of view how can you have a scout that is also a Primaris? They aren't even full Marines. Lol I don't know, maybe I'm thinking too hard about it.

 

I'm imagining they'll look like Scouts, but will be a clear and unique neophyte infantry model.

Your understanding is incorrect, the new organs actually are mostly done early on, black carapace is still last, two of the primaris organs are actually really early in the process, they simply CAN be added to an existing marine

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Rules wise, that is a good point though, it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

[Ishagu]

Well in that case I wouldn't be against Primaris Scouts being a thing for all chapters.

 

But they still need to have compelling rules in their own right. Scouts aren't cheap enough to consider when you can run the far better Incursors, even if they were still troops.

 

Still, it's great that the traditional Crusader squad might be getting a Primaris update. I don't want to derail the topic into a discussion on Scouts anyway, this is all about the BT.

[Trignama]

 

The rumours are new scout models.

Maybe, they might look like them, but they'll also need to have the Primaris keyword otherwise they won't be able to use the new transports?

 

Will be interesting to see how it works because my understanding is that the extra Primaris organs are introduced last, so from a lore point of view how can you have a scout that is also a Primaris? They aren't even full Marines. Lol I don't know, maybe I'm thinking too hard about it.

 

I'm imagining they'll look like Scouts, but will be a clear and unique neophyte infantry model.

 

Why are you so stuck on scouts needing to be primaris? Primaris marines start off as normal scouts? Normal scouts have always been mixed in with whatever is considered the normal marine. For BT I mean of course. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Trignama

[Marshal Reinhard]

To be fair, there's a genuine concern of key wording

[Trignama]

To be fair, there's a genuine concern of key wording

Outside of stratagems (which I assume would be addressed in our supplement) I don't see how them not having the primaris key word is going to have any actual affect. If you're worried about transports I have 2 counter arguments:

 

Trasnport space: If your taking either an Impulsor or a Repulsor, their transport space is already really limited. You aren't going to be trasnporting more than a 5 man unit in an impulsor with an attached character or more than 10 in a Repulsor, which a standard Intercessor flavored unit can fill without neophytes. 

 

If we get standard scouts mixed into primaris squads, it will be meant to build a foot slogger list. If you are going mechanized, you probably wouldn't be using neophytes in the first place due to transport size. 

 

 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

It's a concern if you want to take a mixed Crusader Squad in a Repulsor, what if one scout gives you a bonus like smoke screen? Something that means taking even one is advantageous, that squad can't ride in a transport now?

[Marshal Reinhard]

The real solution is to get a bigger primaris transport 

[Trignama]

It's a concern if you want to take a mixed Crusader Squad in a Repulsor, what if one scout gives you a bonus like smoke screen? Something that means taking even one is advantageous, that squad can't ride in a transport now?

Again, all assumption. We don't know what the new rules for the crusader squad entails, but I'm sure if we are allowed to incorporate scouts into primaris squads, there will be some special rule in our supplement that allows them to board the transport. Considering we are basically the only Marine army that does this, it would be easy to govern in a book specifically meant for us. It isn't that hard to imagine. 

[Ishagu]

@Trignama

 

All my concerns relate to the keywords and the various limitations of stratagems and transports.

 

Would you put non-Primaris infantry in a unit if it meant that you couldn't ride in the new transports, or make use of stratagems like trans-human physiology? The answer is no.

 

I have no lore concerns about mixing the squads in-universe.

[Trignama]

@Trignama

 

All my concerns relate to the keywords and the various limitations of stratagems and transports.

 

Would you put non-Primaris infantry in a unit if it meant that you couldn't ride in the new transports, or make use of stratagems like trans-human physiology? The answer is no.

 

I have no lore concerns about mixing the squads in-universe.

Again, all of these extremely minor issues can easily be fixed with a sentence or 2 in our supplement. 

 

"Scouts added to Primaris Assault Intercessors Squad gain the Primaris Keyword for the purpose of boarding transports and stratagems"

 

Or even, the scouts (neophytes) that are added to the Primaris squad, count almos the same as upgrading the squad with special weapons or what not. The unit they are being added to is already primaris, and their addition just doesn't remove that keyword from the unit. 

 

Done.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Trignama

[Ishagu]

Maybe. It's possible but GW hasn't made exceptions with other keywords in mixed units, even if certain rules can be shared as a result.

 

I imagine it's far more likely for the Neophytes in the Primaris Crusader squad to be completely new models with unique rules and keywords. There has been almost no cross over with units from the classic and Primaris ranges when it comes to mixing beyond auras.

 

Even the Deathwatch can't mix Primaris and old units together.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Ishagu

[Trignama]

Maybe. It's possible but GW hasn't made exceptions with other keywords in mixed units, even if certain rules can be shared as a result.

 

I imagine it's far more likely for the Neophytes in the Primaris Crusader squad to be completely new models with unique rules and keywords. There has been almost no cross over with units from the classic and Primaris ranges when it comes to mixing beyond auras.

Agreed, and if GW sees an option to sell some new models, that is the more likely route to take. 

 

I just don't think it will happen that way personally. I don't see firstborn marines getting squatted, not this edition, or next, so the need for standard scouts will still be there. 

 

Yeah we haven't seen mixed unit rules, yet, but honestly, no one really does it like the Templars do, where they can literally theme an army around the mixed units. 

[Medjugorje]

I don't think they'll be making use in any way of the old Scout models in these new Primaris units.

 

I'm imagining that the kit will have 5 Marines in full Tacticus armour, and maybe 5 that are lightly armoured, maybe covered in cloth in parts, but with the better proportions typical to Primaris. This is very interesting either way.

 

 

YES - never a mix between old school marines and Primaris. This would never happen

 

I think it could be an upgrade kit for intercessors/assault intercessors and for infiltrators- Thats what I would expect but the rumors said it will be new neophytes. And all rumors become true last times

 

 

The real solution is to get a bigger primaris transport 

 

There is a vehicle upgrade sprue I have heard

Edited July 11, 2021 by Medjugorje

[Old-Four-Arms]

If GW are indeed taking design cues from classic 40K artwork (Mark Gibbons' "Helbrecht Triumphant" and Kevin Walkers' "Last Stand") for the new BT miniatures, I hope they don't stop at those two (Mark Gibbons has done some real nice concept work in the olden days..)

 

Especially curious on how they're going to do the neophytes/scouts.. (looks at Mark Gibbons' "Helbrecht's Neophyte")

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The real solution is to get a bigger primaris transport 

Seriously we need a Repulsor Crusader !!!

If both neophytes and initiates are same (1st born or Primaris) it’ll help using the stratagems like Transhuman.

[Eberious]

 

The real solution is to get a bigger primaris transport 

Seriously we need a Repulsor Crusader !!!

If both neophytes and initiates are same (1st born or Primaris) it’ll help using the stratagems like Transhuman.

 

 

This is literally in my to build and convert list of things to do. Need to catch up on some painting first though. 

[Medjugorje]

the question is what the vows will bring.

 

Suffer not -> +1 attack and reroll all wounds like the stratagem in Vigilus?

Uphold the honor -> transhuman for all / Obsec for all / 6++ for all?

 

Transports and even all vehicles are super weak in this edition. I dont think a few melters and more transport capacity would turn them competitive. 

If uphold would gave them 5++ maybe (but that will not happen for sure)

Edited July 11, 2021 by Medjugorje

[Ishagu]

 

 

The real solution is to get a bigger primaris transport

Seriously we need a Repulsor Crusader !!!

 

If both neophytes and initiates are same (1st born or Primaris) it’ll help using the stratagems like Transhuman.

Maybe this could be the upgrade sprue. A turret for the Repulsor with two hurricane bolters and a twin assault cannon.

[Red_Shift]

Really excited for this release. It would be nice if the sword brethren were a primaris  terminator equivalent that other chapters could use. I’m buying the hell out of it whatever comes out!

[Medjugorje]

I think GW will be based on older things like the firstborn swordbrethren. Maybe Intercessors with two-handed eviscerators.... 

[Sarvis]

I think GW will be based on older things like the firstborn swordbrethren. Maybe Intercessors with two-handed eviscerators....

I’d buy so many assault ints with eviscerators