Thoughts on Kill Team 2

[Berzul]

That sounds like a solid guess, I think. Only thing I'd add is that it could be that all intercessors are from the same fire team. With the Heavy Intercessor just being a limited option as a specialist inside the fire team.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Berzul

[LameBeard]

I was going to try to skip Kill Team because I’ve got so many projects on the go and maybe Heresy 2.0 to compete soon too, but I’m so intrigued how this will work I can see myself buying it just to find out...

[excelite]

I hope they drop an article about the equipment customizations soon. I‘d like to see some kind of differentiation of astartes chapters, different fireteam configs would be ok, but some chapter specific stuff for team evolution would be nice. Edited July 24, 2021 by excelite

[Berzul]

I hope so too.

 

I want to start putting aside bits for a new Kill Team as soon as possible!

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

I hope they drop an article about the equipment customizations soon. I‘d like to see some kind of differentiation of astartes chapters, different fireteam configs would be ok, but some chapter specific stuff for team evolution would be nice.

I am interested to see this as well. At this point, it is still a wait and see with all the rules.

The addition of the kill team compedium appears to be like kill team annual. It is a good move IMO.

 

I wonder if the core rulebook will be sold separately at the same time the box set is sold?

 

I found it amusing that 'introduction' of move distance being reduced when going over obstacles. Reminds fo 40k 2nd edition.

[HandsWithLegs]

I'm thinking space marine kill teams will be 6 models, give or take 1. I believe they have stated that death guard kill teams will be 3 plague marines, or 8 poxwalkers, and I'm guessing that they can take two kill teams, so either 6 plague marines, or 3 marines and 8 poxwalkers. Probably a similar setup with chaos space marines and cultists, and thousand sons + tzaangors. Space marines don't really have a cannon fodder troop like that (scouts feel like they fill a different role to me, although I can't put my finger on exactly why) so it makes sense they would only get one kill team.

[Berzul]

I'm thinking space marine kill teams will be 6 models, give or take 1. I believe they have stated that death guard kill teams will be 3 plague marines, or 8 poxwalkers, and I'm guessing that they can take two kill teams, so either 6 plague marines, or 3 marines and 8 poxwalkers. Probably a similar setup with chaos space marines and cultists, and thousand sons + tzaangors. Space marines don't really have a cannon fodder troop like that (scouts feel like they fill a different role to me, although I can't put my finger on exactly why) so it makes sense they would only get one kill team.

 

I'm thinking that Astartes Kill Teams will be of 5 models.

 

We already know we are a Single-Fire Team faction, and it would make sense for said team to be sized at 5 battle brothers, since that is (almost always) the minimum size of any one squad. 

 

My guess will be that Fire Teamw will be split between types of units (an intercessor fire team, an incursor fire team, an infiltrator fire team, a reiver fire team, a tactical fire team, and a scout fire team), with Intercessors of all types being able to fit into an Intercessors team, and Scouts of all types being able to fit into a Scouts team.

 

In any case, I really, REALLY hope that Tactical Marines can mix and match wargear, so that one can include both melee options as well as ranged options. I'd love to be able to take a special weapon, a heavy weapon, an objective oriented specialist, a leader with a melee weapon, and another specialist also geared for melee. 

[HandsWithLegs]

 

I'm thinking space marine kill teams will be 6 models, give or take 1. I believe they have stated that death guard kill teams will be 3 plague marines, or 8 poxwalkers, and I'm guessing that they can take two kill teams, so either 6 plague marines, or 3 marines and 8 poxwalkers. Probably a similar setup with chaos space marines and cultists, and thousand sons + tzaangors. Space marines don't really have a cannon fodder troop like that (scouts feel like they fill a different role to me, although I can't put my finger on exactly why) so it makes sense they would only get one kill team.

 

I'm thinking that Astartes Kill Teams will be of 5 models.

 

We already know we are a Single-Fire Team faction, and it would make sense for said team to be sized at 5 battle brothers, since that is (almost always) the minimum size of any one squad. 

 

My guess will be that Fire Teamw will be split between types of units (an intercessor fire team, an incursor fire team, an infiltrator fire team, a reiver fire team, a tactical fire team, and a scout fire team), with Intercessors of all types being able to fit into an Intercessors team, and Scouts of all types being able to fit into a Scouts team.

 

In any case, I really, REALLY hope that Tactical Marines can mix and match wargear, so that one can include both melee options as well as ranged options. I'd love to be able to take a special weapon, a heavy weapon, an objective oriented specialist, a leader with a melee weapon, and another specialist also geared for melee. 

 

I'm hoping that the rosters will have more varied options, with different archetypes mixing units in fluffy ways. For example, heavy intercessors with revivers or assault intercessors, or an infiltration team with infiltrators and scouts combined. Right now the only roster examples we have seen are from factions with very few options, so I hope that the ones with more get the option to mix and match a bit

[byrd9999]

I didn't play Kill Team 1, so this might be a silly question, but does anyone know if Sisters of Silence will be a faction in Kill Team 2?

 

Will they be playable on their own or will they be allied with Custodes? Or a mixture of both?

 

Thanks for any help!

[lansalt]

I didn't play Kill Team 1, so this might be a silly question, but does anyone know if Sisters of Silence will be a faction in Kill Team 2?

 

Will they be playable on their own or will they be allied with Custodes? Or a mixture of both?

 

Thanks for any help!

Yes, SoS are already confirmed to join Custodes as the Talons of The Emperor faction. It's believed you will be able to take 2 fireteams (2 Custodes/5 SoS each)

[Lysimachus]

My guess would be that the Astartes team will be 5 members - a combat squad, seems logical? - but could be 6.

 

I suspect maybe GW might take the opportunity to focus on Primaris...

 

Using the Orks/Krieg as a guide, I'd say the basic models would be Intercessors (choose Tactical or Assault), one of them needs to be upgraded to a Sgt, then others could be upgraded to stuff like Eliminators, Reivers, Incursors, maybe even Gravis types (but only max one of each, just like the Specialists in the other teams?)

[HandsWithLegs]

My guess would be that the Astartes team will be 5 members - a combat squad, seems logical? - but could be 6.

 

I suspect maybe GW might take the opportunity to focus on Primaris...

 

Using the Orks/Krieg as a guide, I'd say the basic models would be Intercessors (choose Tactical or Assault), one of them needs to be upgraded to a Sgt, then others could be upgraded to stuff like Eliminators, Reivers, Incursors, maybe even Gravis types (but only max one of each, just like the Specialists in the other teams?)

I don't think we should take the teams from the box set as an example for the other teams. Those are designed in a particualr way with only one kit for each one. The other factions all have multiple troop types. I'm guessing we're going to see a handful of different fluffy kill teams with a mix of units in them

[Lysimachus]

I don't think we should take the teams from the box set as an example for the other teams. Those are designed in a particualr way with only one kit for each one. The other factions all have multiple troop types. I'm guessing we're going to see a handful of different fluffy kill teams with a mix of units in them

I'd definitely prefer it that way... I just fear what they might actually have done... :P

[INKS]

I like the general idea of KT2.

Anything that is not Commandos or Vet Guard (Krieg) right now is probably slightly weaker depending on the mission. However eventually all these factions are likely to get their own specialized rules and perhaps a box set. I look forward to that.

 

Because of this: I wasn't going to get the main box but I think I will now. I can work on these two factions while I wait for updates to the others.

[MithrilForge]

I like the general idea of KT2.

Anything that is not Commandos or Vet Guard (Krieg) right now is probably slightly weaker depending on the mission. However eventually all these factions are likely to get their own specialized rules and perhaps a box set. I look forward to that.

 

Because of this: I wasn't going to get the main box but I think I will now. I can work on these two factions while I wait for updates to the others.

 

This   I'm going to get it and make those orks, play em,learn the game and it's pro's and con's then wait for other factions to get the "Treatment" down the road a bit   then and only then will i make my White scars Primaris team 

 

Mithril

[RedRowan]

After watching a few videos yesterday I am really liking how the game seems to play. Feels much closer to what I had wanted from the first game, especially from a narrative point of view.

 

Steve

[Berzul]

So, the compendium is being reviewed.

 

And, thanks, but I hate it.

 

Just to be clear, I get that this set of rules is just to get us by for a few months until each faction has their own rules. Not the actual and final rules for each faction. But, then again, until such time that the factions get their actual rules, I see little point in getting this ruleset, or playing anything other than the Krieg and Komandos. 

 

Fire teams are fixed (so, for instance, Marines cannot mix and match unit types, you have to go all in with 5 guys of whatever type you want, be it intercessors, reivers, infiltrators, tactical, scouts, whatever), and unlike the Krieg and the Komandos, no one has any specialism or battle field role. So, no abilities, special rules, special wargear, or anything that makes a model more than just a generic intercessors, or a generic tactical marine, or a generic whatever.

 

Yeah... I like the core ruleset, but I don't think I'll invest any money on this game until it is actually playable with more than just a standalonoe set of 5 generic marines with no flavor or rules.

[Squark]

So, the compendium is being reviewed.

 

And, thanks, but I hate it.

 

Just to be clear, I get that this set of rules is just to get us by for a few months until each faction has their own rules. Not the actual and final rules for each faction. But, then again, until such time that the factions get their actual rules, I see little point in getting this ruleset, or playing anything other than the Krieg and Komandos.

 

Fire teams are fixed (so, for instance, Marines cannot mix and match unit types, you have to go all in with 5 guys of whatever type you want, be it intercessors, reivers, infiltrators, tactical, scouts, whatever), and unlike the Krieg and the Komandos, no one has any specialism or battle field role. So, no abilities, special rules, special wargear, or anything that makes a model more than just a generic intercessors, or a generic tactical marine, or a generic whatever.

 

Yeah... I like the core ruleset, but I don't think I'll invest any money on this game until it is actually playable with more than just a standalonoe set of 5 generic marines with no flavor or rules.

Yeah, the compendium leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The bespoke kill teams have far more options and support, creating an immediate haves and have nots situation, and a lot of factions got shafted in one way or another

 

-Primaris Astartes should have at least had the ability to mix and match within armor types, much like they do in actual Deathwatch Kill Teams.

-Heavy Intercessors have no business being in the game.

-Custodes have even less business, and are able to splash in some extra bodies for more activations just to make things even worse.

-CSM feel lacking in diversity. I don't know that any of their choices from elites were suitable, though. Cult Troops breaking off from the main book has hit them hard.

-Leaving Striking Scorpions out of Craftworlds is dumb and cripples them. And if Grey Knights, Custodes, Harlequins and Deathwatch can run all power weapons, Howling Banshees really should be allowed in too.

-Leaving Wracks out of Durkhai is just bizarre.

-Orks feel really awkward when you proper Kommandos are right next to them. At least Guard still gets a lite-version of weapons spam to give them something Vets don't have.

-There was no reason Kroot couldn't be part of Tau

 

 

Also, removing specialists from Matched Play entirely makes everything feel same-y, especially considering specialists have been part of Kill Team since the beginning. And removing points is going to lead to competitive lists becoming "solved" very quickly.

 

Overall, I'm rather disappointed with the way thinfs have turned out.

[LameBeard]

I agree with a lot of what @Squark said.

 

However, I’ve seen some reviews and to me the game looks unnecessarily complicated. In that way, the limited options of the compendium might actually make a better, more simpler game for me. But it seems steep to be paying £30 to solve a problem created by a £125 game.

 

Yes they are a profit-making company, but if they had made this compendium a free pdf it would have bought some goodwill with me. Now I have a new set of rules and can’t field several of my previous kill teams. And it was only a 2018 game. (Yes I know I could have stuck with old rules, I often do, but my son has taken the plunge on this one, so I’ve got to get something together to fight those orks!)

[Dumah]

I have no doubt that every faction will be receiving bespoke Kill Teams in their turn. Let's not forgot that the compendium is just a stop-gap so people can play their favorite faction in the mean time. A little patience will be rewarded!

[LameBeard]

I have no doubt that every faction will be receiving bespoke Kill Teams in their turn. Let's not forgot that the compendium is just a stop-gap so people can play their favorite faction in the mean time. A little patience will be rewarded!

Oh I can be patient! I’d just rather not pay twice!

[Maschinenpriester]

 

I have no doubt that every faction will be receiving bespoke Kill Teams in their turn. Let's not forgot that the compendium is just a stop-gap so people can play their favorite faction in the mean time. A little patience will be rewarded!

Oh I can be patient! I’d just rather not pay twice!

If the model follows the one of necromunda we probably pay more than twice if you have more then 1 kill team.

 

I expect them to release some kind of campaing book that contains new rules and the rules of 2 kill teams every 3 month.

of corse this will cost the same as a codex.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Maschinenpriester

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

If the model follows the one of necromunda we probably pay more than twice if you have more then 1 kill team.

I expect them to release some kind of campaing book that contains new rules and the rules of 2 kill teams every 3 month.

of corse this will cost the same as a codex.

I agree with Maschinen.. 's take on it.

 

After watching some videos and seeing review by Crits, it does apepar that the compedium is a stop-gap (e.g. like the 8th eidtion Index for 40k) for GW before GW starts releasing 'codex' for different kill teams. I will be holding off on the purchasing the compedium. If there is going to be multiple books being released then i am better off waiting for the ones I truely want.

 

This new kill team version rules appears interesting and appears balanced. However, the kill fire team organization appears flat and lacking the customization i was able to do with previous version. I found it odd that you coudl not create a fire teams of assault intercessors and intercessors together.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Mechanicus_Adept

[Berzul]

I have no doubt that every faction will be receiving bespoke Kill Teams in their turn. Let's not forgot that the compendium is just a stop-gap so people can play their favorite faction in the mean time. A little patience will be rewarded!

 

Yes, it seems pretty clear that this compendium is the equivalent to an Index from regular 40k. Just something to get by.

 

Thing is:

 

1) What we got is REALLY bland

2) Whatever nice things GW has in store for each faction, we are talking months over months down the line

 

RIght now, I'd rather save my money. I'll see if one of my mates buys the book for the models, and perhaps agrees to sell the core rulebook. But, I'm glad I did not go for this box at all.

[Antarius]

Regarding the balance thing, I think weight of numbers/dice will almost always come out on top in any GW game (and most other games afaict), at least if you go strictly statistically about it. However, I also think it’s a mistake to assume that a game like this will play out in such a way that you will line up 1 Custodes against 14 Guardsmen and then take turns shooting untill one side is wiped out (unless the Custodes player is super stupid, at least). It seems like alternating activations and LoS/cover/missions/movement will make for a different type of game and the option to take several move actions and still shoot will probably come in quite handy, although “hordes” might potentially still be better than “elites” at the end of the day.

 

Presently, the thing I’m most apprehensive about is game length. Four turns might make for a good game, mechanically speaking, but I’m slightly concerned about what it will do for the “feel” of the game.