Intellectual property guidelines updated

[alfred_the_great]

Artel W is “discontinuing and redesigning” some of their models for a reason they won’t disclose…

[Arkhanist]

It wouldn't be the first time Artel W has received a 'cease and desist' from GW for making better aspect warriors and inquisition models than they do alas...

[Redcomet]

Artel W is “discontinuing and redesigning” some of their models for a reason they won’t disclose…

The models are full of iconography. Fists, imperial eagles, night lords icons etc etc. i bet that it is those that GW are objecting too.

[Valkyrion]

I genuinely have no idea as to whats involved with designing and 3d printing stuff - but I use various shapeways stores for shoulder pad icons quite a bit and pay around £20 for 60 such icons.

Why couldn't (or why don't) GW do the same thing? 

Just looking at Space Marine chapters and there are scores of them that have official icons and no transfers or sculpts, but shapeways guys are making them. 

 

Just wondered if there was an 'official' reason? 

[MegaVolt87]

I genuinely have no idea as to whats involved with designing and 3d printing stuff - but I use various shapeways stores for shoulder pad icons quite a bit and pay around £20 for 60 such icons.

Why couldn't (or why don't) GW do the same thing? 

Just looking at Space Marine chapters and there are scores of them that have official icons and no transfers or sculpts, but shapeways guys are making them. 

 

Just wondered if there was an 'official' reason? 

 

Supply and demand, economies of scale. In general, the larger the entity, its actually counter productive + not cost effective to cater to a minority of your customer base. Thats why places like shapeways can cater to dozens or a few hundred people, lower overheads, probably no tax etc. How many chapters exist with just a name and a description of the emblem? I would say enough to warrant not making transfers, shoulder pads etc. Say GW expands the HH to go from scouring to 12 black crusade, they do Badab War, you can bet GW legal would hit every 3rd party that provides products for those chapters involved.

 

Artel W is getting hit because they make whole models and most of them are actually good, while a lot of others are mostly rubbish IMO, and GW obviously believes the same if they stick around without GW legal darkening their door. Its not worth their time chasing down small bits makers unless GW is making a move with what they are making. GW also never cared about the YT content until they are doing their own thing. If GW is smart they will use a light touch and not be worse or on Nintendo's level on community content. The community needs little excuse or encouragement to drag GW into the trenches Iron Cage style to get GW wrecked all over the internet. 

[Grotsmasha]

I genuinely believe in the near future ~5yrs we will see GW with their own Hero Forge equivalent. I suspect it will be more for Characters, and not for Infantry. You'll be able to design and custom order Chapter Masters, or Lord Celestants for example.

[Joe]

Funnily enough, in the case of Shapeways they have actually issued takedowns in the past - POP Goes the Monkey had a good chunk of his store wiped out at one point as the names (and a few emblems) veered a little too close to the mark. He made the requested alterations and re-uploaded them and hasn't had any issues since.

 

Ordering something bespoke is generally fine when you're dealing with orders in small quantities, but it becomes problematic at a larger scale, which I think is a huge reason why GW haven't done it yet - be it transfers, pauldrons, or even something like Hero Forge for full miniatures. That said, as Grot said I wouldn't be surprised if they were experimenting to see if they can find a feasible method of supporting that side of the hobby.

[Redcomet]

Funnily enough, in the case of Shapeways they have actually issued takedowns in the past - POP Goes the Monkey had a good chunk of his store wiped out at one point as the names (and a few emblems) veered a little too close to the mark. He made the requested alterations and re-uploaded them and hasn't had any issues since.

 

Ordering something bespoke is generally fine when you're dealing with orders in small quantities, but it becomes problematic at a larger scale, which I think is a huge reason why GW haven't done it yet - be it transfers, pauldrons, or even something like Hero Forge for full miniatures. That said, as Grot said I wouldn't be surprised if they were experimenting to see if they can find a feasible method of supporting that side of the hobby.

Games Workshop loves to make money and are quite good at it. So if something is a potential large enough revenue stream, they will jump on it faster than Tau on an unguarded Imperial world.

[MARK0SIAN]

I don’t think something like hero forge really seems to fit with their vision for the models and the rules. Just look at how restrictive the various Primaris captain loadouts are. They very much seem to want you to build exactly what’s in the box, exactly like it’s shown on the box. Creating your own custom heroes goes against that as they won’t even let us build custom ones with the bits they already sell.

[Domhnall]

I genuinely have no idea as to whats involved with designing and 3d printing stuff - but I use various shapeways stores for shoulder pad icons quite a bit and pay around £20 for 60 such icons.

Why couldn't (or why don't) GW do the same thing? 

Just looking at Space Marine chapters and there are scores of them that have official icons and no transfers or sculpts, but shapeways guys are making them. 

 

Just wondered if there was an 'official' reason? 

 

I'm not sure if there is an 'official reason' for this, but my thinking is back to the economy of scale. For a small 'one man band' or team, 3D printing things like shoulder pads or individual models works. They 'sculpt' the model on software, and sell online. Someone decides to buy said shoulder pads, they then print them off and send them on their way. I'm not sure how much they'd need to sell in a year to make it worth while, so I'm not even going to guess. 

However, for a company as large as GW to do the same, they'd need to be making a shed ton of them to make it worth while. Not because it's more difficult/expensive to do, but pretty much because it's not that much cheaper or easier for them to do it. 

For them to start offering all the chapters shoulder pads, they'd need to employ a team to deal with the orders, several 3D printers, maintenance/supplies etc, all which cost money. They wouldn't sell enough to warrant the outlay for making them as plastic (moulds cost a shed load of cash), so 3D printing would be the way they'd have to go. But it's not worth it for them when it comes down to it. 

 

And can you imagine the backlash GW would get for selling 60 shoulder pads for £20? Folk would be grabbing the now well worn pitch forks on the way out the door. 

 

 

As a side note regarding the Golden Daemon winner with a non standard/3D printed model: A lot of competition winners kit bash heavily, so they're non standard anyway. But most importantly, they're not selling said model, which seems to be the biggest issue. What seems to be getting lost in all this kerfuffle recently, is GW aren't fussed if you create your own transfers, sculpt your own pads, do whatever to your own miniatures. It's the selling of things that are obviously of GW IP that they're not happy with. 

 

It's a shame Artel W is having to pull a series of figures (I've recently purchased from him, and would happily do again!), but it'll be interesting to see what his revised sculpts look like when he re-releases them. It'll give a good idea what GW (speculatively) have an issue with. If I had the spare cash right now, I'd actually take up the offer he's giving on facebook for them, as the figures I've gotten previously are really good quality! Though I am considering the 'not striking scorpions' because they look very nice! :-) 

[roryokane]

It’d be an absolute money spinner for GW to have a library of 3D printing files for their back catalogue. It might take them one time and money to set up, but then all they have to do is sit back and profit off people doing it. Or simply allow a company to produce the bits under license, if they don’t want to give out the STL files. If GW don’t make a certain bit or miniature any more, but there’s demand for them (the bajillions of dreadnought/rhino/land raider/chapter bits that forgeworld no longer makes for starters) - they’re literally ignoring a money-making option.

 

 

As for the TTS stuff - I mean, surely TFS’ saga with DBZA is indicative that parody can cover a *HUGE* amount. Hell, they were literally using the anime to parody itself. That’d be like making GW models and making a stop motion version of TTS or something, as they’d be directly using the actual core product they’re selling. I get that Alfabusa probably doesn’t I’m have the stomach for a lawsuit (which is totally fair) but I really wish the community would raise a war chest out of solidarity.

[Arkhanist]

GW selling 3d printed things would rather blow a hole in their hardline no 3d printed parts or models at tournaments or warhammer world. With the increasing use of monopose models, it's increasingly easy to see if 3d printed (or otherwise) non standard parts have been used; and some stores have reportedly been cracking down on custom parts too. Selling their own custom small-run parts would definitely undermine that approach.
 
GW are definitely familiar with 3d printing themselves for prototypes; the new van saar servo suit has some visible 3d printing layer lines on it, for the latest example. (they really need to learn to prep models before painting!) I just can't imagine them doing a complete 180 and suddenly embracing the tech they're working pretty hard to dissuade their existing customers away from any time soon.

The whole point of 3d printing is cheap manufacture of parts that aren't worth using large-scale production methods for - which also brings it nicely into the realm of making your own models at home now quality has risen significantly. GW from 30 years ago would probably have loved it for weird and wacky stuff (deodorant bottle tank!) and bits selling, but these days It's pretty antithetical to their business model of selling GW approved bulk production models for the highest price they can get away with, along with trying to be the only one-stop shop for hobby supplies, every other supplier frowned upon. If they could figure out how to ban non-GW paint at  their events, I suspect they'd at least consider it.

 

The very fact that they are constantly reducing the bits from forgeworld, keeping only the absolutely most profitable lines, fits into that - they don't want to sell you a big back catalog of parts to make older models more interesting, they want you to impulsively buy the latest 'only available until it sells out' new shiny box. And again, and again...

Edited September 14, 2021 by Arkhanist

[Grotsmasha]

I don’t think something like hero forge really seems to fit with their vision for the models and the rules. Just look at how restrictive the various Primaris captain loadouts are. They very much seem to want you to build exactly what’s in the box, exactly like it’s shown on the box. Creating your own custom heroes goes against that as they won’t even let us build custom ones with the bits they already sell.

 

 

GW selling 3d printed things would rather blow a hole in their hardline no 3d printed parts or models at tournaments or warhammer world. With the increasing use of monopose models, it's increasingly easy to see if 3d printed (or otherwise) non standard parts have been used; and some stores have reportedly been cracking down on custom parts too. Selling their own custom small-run parts would definitely undermine that approach.

 

GW are definitely familiar with 3d printing themselves for prototypes; the new van saar servo suit has some visible 3d printing layer lines on it, for the latest example. (they really need to learn to prep models before painting!) I just can't imagine them doing a complete 180 and suddenly embracing the tech they're working pretty hard to dissuade their existing customers away from any time soon.

 

The whole point of 3d printing is cheap manufacture of parts that aren't worth using large-scale production methods for - which also brings it nicely into the realm of making your own models at home now quality has risen significantly. GW from 30 years ago would probably have loved it for weird and wacky stuff (deodorant bottle tank!) and bits selling, but these days It's pretty antithetical to their business model of selling GW approved bulk production models for the highest price they can get away with, along with trying to be the only one-stop shop for hobby supplies, every other supplier frowned upon. If they could figure out how to ban non-GW paint at  their events, I suspect they'd at least consider it.

 

The very fact that they are constantly reducing the bits from forgeworld, keeping only the absolutely most profitable lines, fits into that - they don't want to sell you a big back catalog of parts to make older models more interesting, they want you to impulsively buy the latest 'only available until it sells out' new shiny box. And again, and again...

 

AT this point, I think we're going off topic, but want to explore this further. I'm going to start a topic in Amicus

[Focslain]

As for the TTS stuff - I mean, surely TFS’ saga with DBZA is indicative that parody can cover a *HUGE* amount. Hell, they were literally using the anime to parody itself. That’d be like making GW models and making a stop motion version of TTS or something, as they’d be directly using the actual core product they’re selling. I get that Alfabusa probably doesn’t I’m have the stomach for a lawsuit (which is totally fair) but I really wish the community would raise a war chest out of solidarity.

 

In his video Alfabusa stated he didn't have the stomach to fight a C&D period. TFS had to fight not once but three times, this included contacting Toryoma himself. They won and the creator is a big fan of theirs as well too now. They have a running joke now between them where Toryoma would present TFS a fake C&D at any convention they both were at.

 

Alfabusa was running on fumes for TTS so this gave him an easy out. Honestly after watching his Stellaris vid I'd say just get the crew together for a Crusader Kings III game, record it and he'll have material for for dozen of episodes that Paradox would pay him to post.

[roryokane]

 

As for the TTS stuff - I mean, surely TFS’ saga with DBZA is indicative that parody can cover a *HUGE* amount. Hell, they were literally using the anime to parody itself. That’d be like making GW models and making a stop motion version of TTS or something, as they’d be directly using the actual core product they’re selling. I get that Alfabusa probably doesn’t I’m have the stomach for a lawsuit (which is totally fair) but I really wish the community would raise a war chest out of solidarity.

 

In his video Alfabusa stated he didn't have the stomach to fight a C&D period. TFS had to fight not once but three times, this included contacting Toryoma himself. They won and the creator is a big fan of theirs as well too now. They have a running joke now between them where Toryoma would present TFS a fake C&D at any convention they both were at.

 

Alfabusa was running on fumes for TTS so this gave him an easy out. Honestly after watching his Stellaris vid I'd say just get the crew together for a Crusader Kings III game, record it and he'll have material for for dozen of episodes that Paradox would pay him to post.

 

I saw that video. I just... bleh. It's one of those things where I wish the community would just do something for him. *sigh*

[Focslain]

 

I saw that video. I just... bleh. It's one of those things where I wish the community would just do something for him. *sigh*

 

 

The best thing they can is to do what they have been doing. Support him via Patreon and watch his videos. It's just that they won't get any new content until his ready. 

 

Which to be honest was par for the course even before the scare. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Focslain

[jarms48]

I genuinely believe in the near future ~5yrs we will see GW with their own Hero Forge equivalent. I suspect it will be more for Characters, and not for Infantry. You'll be able to design and custom order Chapter Masters, or Lord Celestants for example.

 

I've been suggesting this as well. It'd be nice to actually be able to fully customise "your dudes".