Cover question

[Galron]

With the new rules on cover and terrain we had a situation come up this weekend. We had ruined buildings and I had a 5 man unit behind the building. I intentionally did not have them in the building since it blocked LOS and if I was in the building LOS would no longer be blocked. That is my understanding of the rule. My opponent disagreed and said since they were touching the terrain with their base despite my intentionally not putting them in the terrain then they could be seen. We simply solved it with him shooting a clone unit that was in terrain elsewhere and his hive guard simply bombarded the first unit down to two guy who then had to stare down 14 obsec genestealers at point blank who somehow managed to move 30 inches in one turn.

 

Did we play this right? The book isnt very clear, three of us sat there and debated it and couldnt come to a solid answer.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Best to agree ahead of time going forward but for what it’s worth touching is not the same as being in.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

The rules require a model to be "within" obscuring terrain to ignore its effects (pg 263 of the big rule book).

 

The rules give some clarification as to what "within" means on pg 199, but that applies to being "within" a specified distance.  Therefore, they are not very helpful in this instance, as the word "within" is used without any applicable difference.

 

Which brings us to what does "within" mean?  In this case, it is being used as a prepostion.  My handy dictionary (I like Miriam-Webster) gives the definition of within, when used as a preposition, as:

 

Definition of within (Entry 2 of 4)

1—used as a function word to indicate enclosure or containment

2—used as a function word to indicate situation or circumstance in the limits or compass of: such as

a: before the end ofgone within a week

b(1): not beyond the quantity, degree, or limitations oflive within your income

(2): in or into the scope or sphere ofwithin the jurisdiction of the state

(3): in or into the range ofwithin reachwithin sight

(4)—used as a function word to indicate a specified difference or margincame within two points of a perfect markwithin a mile of the town

3: to the inside of : INTOsunk the sea within the earth— William Shakespeare

From this defintion, it is clear that "within" means to be inside a certain place, distance or property.

 

If a model is merely touching the terrain, then it can't be said to the "within" it, as it isn't inside the terrain any more than I am inside my house when ringing the door bell.

 

Now, if a sliver of a model's base was inside the terrain, then that model would be "within" the terrain (though very marginally so), so the entire unit would be targetable.

[Eddie Orlock]

Which brings us to what does "within" mean? 

Glossary on page 365 defines 'In Terrain' in a manner such that even if a lip of the base was overlapping the terrain template the model would be interpreted as in the terrain. This is consistent conceptually with the discussion of WITHIN AND WHOLLY WITHIN on pg 199 and the related glossary definitions in the lower left corners of pg 367, particularly in contrast with 'Wholly in terrain' in that region.

 

Obscuring on pg 263 makes reference to the on or within, which feeds back to the glossary definition of 'in terrain' that being part of a base overlapping the terrain would be considered 'in'.

 

So it seems to come down to if 'touching' counts as 'on'. I would likely think not, but without imagery it's hard to say, and in practice it would come down to player agreement. Something to talk over with your opponent, ideally between games when feelings are chill.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I agree with you if there is any overlapping, but not if the base is merely touching.  The rules you quote (at least the portions you do - I haven't had the opportunity to go read them myself) seem to support that interpretation.

 

And I think, in 9e, that one has to be careful not to use the word "on" to mean "within" terrain.  The terrain rules in 9e seem to contemplate "on" for terrain as meaning the same as "on top of" rather than "within".  I haven't looked carefully enough to determine if that iis a meaningful difference, but even if it isn't now it could at some point be, so I think its best not to use "on" and "within" as if they have the same meaning.

[Galron]

How are tournaments dealing with it? I generally only will play the most friendly of tournaments so I have no clue how the competitive ones are ruling things. This seems like something that would be declared in the tournament packets rather than something each table decided on for each game

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Ask the TO.