SW successor nerf...no counter charge (6" HI)

[TiguriusX]

New league ruling came out and many agree it is correct

 

A SW successor unit that is not a character is not eligible to do a 6" HI using the counter charge stratagem

 

The HI rule requires 1) eligible and 2) character

 

Pure SW units get to HI "as if a character" thanks to hunter unleashed rule

 

The other HI stratagem called Unbridled Ardour grants a 6" HI "as if a character" (Blood Angel version)

 

 

 

A regular SW successor unit using the stratagem does not meet the "character" requirement because they are missing hunters unleashed

 

There is precedent for a SW successor losing a rule that applies to SW because of no hunters unleashed

 

A similar problem exists with BERSERK CHARGE rule that BCs have

 

A SW successor blood claw does NOT gain berserk charge and loses the extra attack on the charge

 

 

Doh!

 

Puts a damper on my berserker lists I am testing

Edited July 27, 2021 by TiguriusX

[Havok13]

I've read the stratagem, on the app, and I disagree. It's states any sw unit can move up to 6". Unless I'm missing the point?

[TiguriusX]

I've read the stratagem, on the app, and I disagree. It's states any sw unit can move up to 6". Unless I'm missing the point?

The rule that matters is heroic intervention

 

***

2. HEROIC INTERVENTIONS

Your opponent can now select an eligible CHARACTER unit from their army to perform a Heroic Intervention. An eligible CHARACTER unit is one that is not within Engagement Range of any enemy units, but is within 3" horizontally and 5" vertically of an enemy unit. After they have finished performing a Heroic Intervention with a CHARACTER unit, they can then select another eligible CHARACTER unit from their army to do so, and so on, until they have done so with as many of their units as they wish. If your opponent has no eligible CHARACTER units, the Charge phase ends.

***

RAW argument is there are 2 requirements

1-eligible

2-character

 

The counter charge stratagem grants 1) and makes a unit eligible

 

The successor lack of hunters unleashed means it doesn't satisfy 2)

 

 

It is a crappy RAW interpretation that I disagreed with at first as well.

 

But the GW wording requiring character is present in the BA version and the SW hunter unleashed ability

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Yeah I can understand it from a RAW perspective. More so because counter charge mentions that all other rules for Heroic Intervention still apply. I really don't like how they use the term eligible because once you say a unit is eligible that should mean it fulfills the requirements. Its worth asking GW about just to see if it gets added to a faq at some point because the RAI is still murky IMO.

 

That said I don't mind Space Wolves having a bit more of an edge on successors. Our character dreads are nice, but our other characters aren't the greatest, and exploding 6's are better than +1 to hit. The 3" heroic intervention is nice, but when the stratagem can give you a 6" one it feels pretty weak compared to some of the other successor choices. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I was coming to the conclusion that successor wolves were better, and this makes a more difficult decision which is good because it increases variety.

[Kallas]

This is just...flat out wrong.

 

Here's the full wording of Counter Charge:

"Use this Stratagem in your opponent's Charge phase. Select one Space Wolves unit from your army. Until the end of the phase, that unit is eligible to perform a Heroic Intervention if it is within 6" of an enemy unit, and when performing a Heroic Intervention with that unit, you can move each model in that unit up to 6". All other rules for Heroic Intervention still apply. This Stratagem costs 0CP if the Space Wolves unit you select is a Character."

 

RAW argument is there are 2 requirements

1-eligible
2-character

The counter charge stratagem grants 1) and makes a unit eligible
The successor lack of hunters unleashed means it doesn't satisfy 2)AW

 

2) does not apply. 2) is overridden because normally no unit can Heroically Intervene at all - the Stratagem specifically calls out that you select any Space Wolves (or Successor) unit and they perform a Heroic Intervention.

 

The statement, "Select one Space Wolves unit from your army. Until the end of the phase, that unit is eligible to perform a Heroic Intervention if it is within 6" of an enemy unit, and when performing a Heroic Intervention with that unit, you can move each model in that unit up to 6" covers the eligible and Character portion. Because it fully describes the Heroic Intervention rule.

 

The Stratagem does override the Character limitation, because it is, itself, describing a method of performing a Heroic Intervention. While I see that the "All other rules for Heroic Intervention still apply." portion is being applied to try and force the Character limitation, the Stratagem is already beyond that: the unit you have selected is eligible.

 

Hell, if you want to get technical:

Charge phase, 2. Heroic Interventions, page 225:

"Once all of your opponent's eligible Character units have performed Heroic Interventions that they want to, your Charge phase ends and you progress to the Fight phase."

 

The whole Counter Charge Stratagem is literally unusable for Successor non-Character units, because the opponent can just move to the Fight phase whenever they want, since they are allowed to move on once you've finished with your Characters only. They don't have to wait for you to use Counter Charge, they're not obliged...except that the Stratagem is clearly an exception.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Kallas

[TiguriusX]

This is just...flat out wrong.

 

Here's the full wording of Counter Charge:

"Use this Stratagem in your opponent's Charge phase. Select one Space Wolves unit from your army. Until the end of the phase, that unit is eligible to perform a Heroic Intervention if it is within 6" of an enemy unit, and when performing a Heroic Intervention with that unit, you can move each model in that unit up to 6". All other rules for Heroic Intervention still apply. This Stratagem costs 0CP if the Space Wolves unit you select is a Character."

 

RAW argument is there are 2 requirements

1-eligible

2-character

 

The counter charge stratagem grants 1) and makes a unit eligible

The successor lack of hunters unleashed means it doesn't satisfy 2)AW

 

2) does not apply. 2) is overridden because normally no unit can Heroically Intervene at all - the Stratagem specifically calls out that you select any Space Wolves (or Successor) unit and they perform a Heroic Intervention.

 

The statement, "Select one Space Wolves unit from your army. Until the end of the phase, that unit is eligible to perform a Heroic Intervention if it is within 6" of an enemy unit, and when performing a Heroic Intervention with that unit, you can move each model in that unit up to 6" covers the eligible and Character portion. Because it fully describes the Heroic Intervention rule.

 

The Stratagem does override the Character limitation, because it is, itself, describing a method of performing a Heroic Intervention. While I see that the "All other rules for Heroic Intervention still apply." portion is being applied to try and force the Character limitation, the Stratagem is already beyond that: the unit you have selected is eligible.

 

Hell, if you want to get technical:

Charge phase, 2. Heroic Interventions, page 225:

"Once all of your opponent's eligible Character units have performed Heroic Interventions that they want to, your Charge phase ends and you progress to the Fight phase."

 

The whole Counter Charge Stratagem is literally unusable for Successor non-Character units, because the opponent can just move to the Fight phase whenever they want, since they are allowed to move on once you've finished with your Characters only. They don't have to wait for you to use Counter Charge, they're not obliged...except that the Stratagem is clearly an exception.

 

The argument (which I disagree with BTW) is that the stratagem only permits an existing HI eligible unit to extend from 3" to 6"

In effect it expands the "eligible" portion of the heroic intervention rule from 3" to 6" and expressly gives permission to move up to 6" as well

It has no impact on the character requirement of HI

That is how it is being RAW interpreted

 

Other rules involving granting heroic intervention all mention "as if a character"

The pure SW hunters unleashed grants "HI as if a character" to resolve that problem

Successors lack that rule

 

That is the basis of the argument

 

 

 

As for skipping and denying a chance to use a stratagem that should never happen.

GW expressly wrote that you can't skip phases etc.  

A player has to be given the opportunity to use their stratagems/rules/activations etc.

 

 

And finally yes...the stratagem is unusable for successor non characters.  That is basically what this ruling says.

It sucks for the recently popular SW successors everyone is experimenting with

 

Hopefully this ruling doesn't spread any further or GW clarifies it (lol right)

 

For the record this is originally from the Alpha League online league

It is also in effect for Copenhammer league I am in (they adopted alpha league ruling)

[Kallas]

The argument (which I disagree with BTW) is that the stratagem only permits an existing HI eligible unit to extend from 3" to 6"

In effect it expands the "eligible" portion of the heroic intervention rule from 3" to 6" and expressly gives permission to move up to 6" as well

It has no impact on the character requirement of HI

That is how it is being RAW interpreted

 

Other rules involving granting heroic intervention all mention "as if a character"

The pure SW hunters unleashed grants "HI as if a character" to resolve that problem

Successors lack that rule

 

That is the basis of the argument

 

The Stratagem itself tells you to move the unit 6". If the Character rule must be enforced, then it simply cannot be used on a Successor at all, since they're not a Character unit they can't move.

 

Either it applies wholesale or it doesn't. The interpretation they are using is incorrect because it is an inaccurate application - they are picking and choosing where it applies without there being a reason.

 

The Stratagem does not tell one to extend the range of an HI'ing unit by 3"; it tells one to perform an HI with a selected unit with a range of 6", and if they're a Character then it's 0CP.

 

As for skipping and denying a chance to use a stratagem that should never happen.

GW expressly wrote that you can't skip phases etc.  

A player has to be given the opportunity to use their stratagems/rules/activations etc.

 

That's not my point: you can perform your Charges, not be in range of any Characters and then move on, because there is no point in the Heroic Intervention section for non-Character units to perform Heroic Interventions. Most abilities do say, "as if they were a Character" but Counter Charge doesn't, meaning you can't use it.

[TiguriusX]

That's not my point: you can perform your Charges, not be in range of any Characters and then move on, because there is no point in the Heroic Intervention section for non-Character units to perform Heroic Interventions. Most abilities do say, "as if they were a Character" but Counter Charge doesn't, meaning you can't use it.

Yes...that use why I called it a successor nerf.

 

The ruling invalidates non characters successors from using the stratagem whatsoever.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I'm really hoping they FAQ this, and in 10th abilities like this need to have USRs. 

 

My view on it is that the counter charge stratagem makes a unit eligible to HI at a longer horizontal distance, and then modifies the distance moved when performing it. It doesn't make the unit perform the HI however. It still has to be chosen, and can't be if it isn't a character. 

 

I think there would be a lot less confusion if it were presented as a USR. Basically at the end of your opponents charge phase your units with HI can use it if they aren't in engagement range, and are within 3" horizontally and 5' vertically of an enemy unit. Then the stratagems can give the usr temporarily, and/or modify the distance. I just think that would be a lot more clear.    

 

[Kallas]

Yes...that use why I called it a successor nerf.

The ruling invalidates non characters successors from using the stratagem whatsoever.

 

It doesn't.

 

The Stratagem itself tells one to select a unit to then perform a HI with. It doesn't say that it has them operate 'as if a character' and it doesn't need to, because it tells us it's an eligible unit in the Stratagem, and that they move 6" when doing so. It's overriding the core rules, it's pretty plainly the case.

 

This is exactly the same kind of thing as Fight Twice/More. The Fight phase tells us, "No unit can fight more than once in the Fight phase" - but we know that the Honour The Chapter Space Marine Stratagem allows a unit of Assault Intercessors to fight a second time.

 

"Use this Stratagem at the end of the Fight phase. Select one Assault Intercessor Squad unit from your army that is within Engagement Range of any enemy units; that unit can fight again."

 

This Stratagem doesn't explicitly state that this gets around the "no unit can fight more than once" rule...because it is clearly defying that core rule. The same logic with Counter Charge. The same logic with the Rapid Fire Stratagem for Intercessors, which lets them shoot a second time, despite the same rule for the Shooting phase.

 

The people arguing that Successors cannot perform a 6" HI with Counter Charge are wrong.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Kallas

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Kallas counter charge doesn't say that the unit can heroically intervene. It makes it eligible but then gives you no way to select it because all other rules for heroic intervention apply. There isn't a rule for selecting a non-character unit, the fact that it modifies how the action is performed is irrelevant. Its really silly and GW shouldn't use eligible when there are additional qualifiers but they chose to and the fact that Unbridled Ardour has the "as if it were a character unit" clause supports anyone that makes ruling. 

 

The Honour of the Chapter stratagem is different because it just flat out tells you that the unit of assault intercessors can fight again. It is a much better designed stratagem.

 

RAI you may be right, but it wouldn't shock me if it is intentional that successor non-characters can't use it. Best thing to do is send GW an email and ask for it to be addressed in a FAQ. 

[lonewolf81]

The way I see it is that the stratagem makes the unit eligible to perform the 6'' Heroic Intervention and the sentence 'all other rules... still apply' is there for the other restrictions (the character restriction is bypassed by the strat making any wolves unit eligible character or not) like the no enemy unit within engagement range, no heroic interventions on your own charge phase, units can Heroicly intervene once per charge phase etc Edited August 4, 2021 by lonewolf81

[Kallas]

Kallas counter charge doesn't say that the unit can heroically intervene. It makes it eligible but then gives you no way to select it because all other rules for heroic intervention apply. There isn't a rule for selecting a non-character unit, the fact that it modifies how the action is performed is irrelevant. Its really silly and GW shouldn't use eligible when there are additional qualifiers but they chose to and the fact that Unbridled Ardour has the "as if it were a character unit" clause supports anyone that makes ruling. 

 

The Stratagem literally tells you to "Select one Space Wolves unit from your army [...] that unit is eligible to perform a Heroic Intervention if it is within 6" of an enemy unit", yet you're saying it 'gives you no way to select it'.

 

 

You are performing some serious mental gymnastics, and this is ridiculous. The Stratagem gives permission for a unit selected by the Stratagem to perform a Heroic Intervention, it is there in the black-and-white text.

 

 

The Honour of the Chapter stratagem is different because it just flat out tells you that the unit of assault intercessors can fight again. It is a much better designed stratagem.

 

It's not different. It doesn't give you permission to bypass the 'unit can only fight once per Fight phase' rule; this is the exact same logic as denying the Counter Charge Stratagem. It's not better designed, people are just using terrible logic to justify something that isn't the way the rules are laid out.

[TiguriusX]

It says you are eligible to HI up to 6"

 

"Eligible" ties into the HI rule itself.

 

Standard is only eligible up to 3"

 

The stratagem also says all other restrictions apply.

 

HI says characters only

 

Hunters unleashed grant as if character

BA stratagem grants as if character

Successor is missing that part

 

It is a draconian RAW application but it isn't without merit.

 

IMO it really is a 50/50 type ruling

 

The interpretation of the HI rule itself is what determines the outcome.

 

You also seem to be angry at us for discussing a ruling. We didn't make this ruling. We are explaining how it was presented and get why a ruling could go against us.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

The way I see it is that the stratagem makes the unit eligible to perform the 6'' Heroic Intervention and the sentence 'all other rules... still apply' is there for the other restrictions (the character restriction is bypassed by the strat making any wolves unit eligible character or not) like the no enemy unit within engagement range, no heroic interventions on your own charge phase, units can Heroicly intervene once per charge phase etc

 

Why would the character restriction be bypassed though? Unbridled Adour is a similar stratagem it adds an "as if it were a character" clause same for Gulliman's warlord trait, the custodes HI stratagem, the DG drone stat, heck the counter charge stratagem in Saga of The Beast has it. So why is the new counter charge stratagem an exception?  Even if it did bypass it how would you select them? The heroic intervention rules allow you to complete the action with eligible character units, until you run out of them at which point your done with heroic interventions. There isn't a second step where you intervene with eligible units. 

 

Its like applying for a job. I'm eligible if I meet the job postings requirements, and when I get the job I'll receive the benefits listed in the posting. That said they still have to hire me, I don't get their 401k match just for being eligible. You can't get hired if you can't be selected.

 

Personally I think this stratagem needs to be FAQ'd because it doesn't list a vertical height like the others. I don't know if its intentional or not that non-character successors units can't benefit from it but they should address that as well. 

 

edit: I missed a couple of posts. Kallas - Honour the chapter tells you that can fight again, it doesn't care if the unit is eligible it doesn't state the other rules still apply. If counter charge said the unit you pick can heroically intervene there would be no argument.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Jorin Helm-splitter

[Kallas]

It says you are eligible to HI up to 6"

 

"Eligible" ties into the HI rule itself.

 

Standard is only eligible up to 3"

 

Are you actually  serious with this?

Really? Really?!

 

The Stratagem is telling you that that unit can HI 6". It doesn't matter than the standard is 3", because this is overriding the core rule.

 

If it isn't, then a 6" HI is never possible unless a rule expressly says, "can HI an additional 3" " or, "can HI 6" even though normally it's 3" "

 

These mental gymnastics are incredible.

 

Edit:

It doesn't matter that the standard HI is 3", because the Stratagem tells us that the selected unit can move up to 6" when doing so. (Edit 2) If the rule said HI an additional 3", it might be relevant, but it doesn't, it says 6".

Edited August 4, 2021 by Kallas

[Havok13]

Can we chill and discuss the topic at hand?

Edited August 4, 2021 by Triszin
-- swear filter dodge ---

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Kallas - I think you should write GW an email. You feel strongly about the subject and sending GW email is the best course of action, because they can and should add it to the FAQ. Another good source might be sending to the ruleshammer column at goonhammer.

 

That said I'm not using mental gymnastics to reach this conclusion I'm basing it on the wording of every other HI stratagem within the books I own. Between heroic intervention having you select eligible characters till you don't have any, and all those other stratagems/abilities treating units "as if it were a character" leads me to believe that just being eligible isn't enough. I don't even see it as a draconian ruling (sorry TiguriusX), I mean GW is shockingly consistent with that character clause.

 

Personally I think either GW didn't add the character clause because of hunters unleashed, forgetting successors didn't have it. In which case they just need to add the character clause back in, so it works like all the other similar abilities. Or they want successor characters to have the 6" HI like the old chapter tactic, and don't want other successor units to have access.

 

Regardless this is my last post on this topic. I want to stress that you should ask GW for a ruling on it, because I'm not the one you need to convince.

[TiguriusX]

You can disagree with me I don't mind lol

 

I am a licensed attorney. Disagreeing with people is my life.

 

Reasonable minds may differ as they like to say

[lonewolf81]

i think you are putting too  much thought to it.  Eligible in my eyes means it can do the trick. GW rules team  many times used slightly different wording , describing the same thing/effect. No offence guys but i dont think their intention was to crack the "davinci "code hidden behind the stratagem's wording in order to play it correctly. Remember the bestial nature stratagem? Their intention was clear for me back then. Anyway this strat looks crystal clear (in my opinion :)  ) . I get what you are saying but looks too weird (the way i see it)

to be true. 

 

 

The way I see it is that the stratagem makes the unit eligible to perform the 6'' Heroic Intervention and the sentence 'all other rules... still apply' is there for the other restrictions (the character restriction is bypassed by the strat making any wolves unit eligible character or not) like the no enemy unit within engagement range, no heroic interventions on your own charge phase, units can Heroicly intervene once per charge phase etc

 

Why would the character restriction be bypassed though? Unbridled Adour is a similar stratagem it adds an "as if it were a character" clause same for Gulliman's warlord trait, the custodes HI stratagem, the DG drone stat, heck the counter charge stratagem in Saga of The Beast has it. So why is the new counter charge stratagem an exception?  Even if it did bypass it how would you select them? The heroic intervention rules allow you to complete the action with eligible character units, until you run out of them at which point your done with heroic interventions. There isn't a second step where you intervene with eligible units. 

 

Its like applying for a job. I'm eligible if I meet the job postings requirements, and when I get the job I'll receive the benefits listed in the posting. That said they still have to hire me, I don't get their 401k match just for being eligible. You can't get hired if you can't be selected.

 

Personally I think this stratagem needs to be FAQ'd because it doesn't list a vertical height like the others. I don't know if its intentional or not that non-character successors units can't benefit from it but they should address that as well. 

 

edit: I missed a couple of posts. Kallas - Honour the chapter tells you that can fight again, it doesn't care if the unit is eligible it doesn't state the other rules still apply. If counter charge said the unit you pick can heroically intervene there would be no argument.

 

[TiguriusX]

 

i think you are putting too much thought to it. Eligible in my eyes means it can do the trick.

This is the main SW counter argument

 

I made it myself to the TO saying I couldn't do it

 

The response was "eligible" refers to HI requirements (i.e., 3")

 

Agree or disagree...this was the reason given for the ruling

 

***

An eligible CHARACTER unit is one that is not within Engagement Range of any enemy units, but is within 3" horizontally and 5" vertically of an enemy unit

***

[lonewolf81]

 

i think you are putting too much thought to it. Eligible in my eyes means it can do the trick.

This is the main SW counter argument

 

I made it myself to the TO saying I couldn't do it

 

The response was "eligible" refers to HI requirements (i.e., 3")

 

Agree or disagree...this was the reason given for the ruling

 

***

An eligible CHARACTER unit is one that is not within Engagement Range of any enemy units, but is within 3" horizontally and 5" vertically of an enemy unit

***

 

I get his thought but feels wrong and way too complicated to be true...If you ask me this rules lawyering messes up the game...No offence to lawyers :)

Edited August 4, 2021 by lonewolf81

[Triszin]

that is disappointing, and worth a email/s to the GW rules team for a  official FAQ one way or the other

 

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Edited August 4, 2021 by Triszin

[Kallas]

 

i think you are putting too much thought to it. Eligible in my eyes means it can do the trick.

This is the main SW counter argument. I made it myself to the TO saying I couldn't do it. The response was "eligible" refers to HI requirements (i.e., 3") Agree or disagree...this was the reason given for the ruling

 

***

An eligible CHARACTER unit is one that is not within Engagement Range of any enemy units, but is within 3" horizontally and 5" vertically of an enemy unit

***

 

Except that reason for the ruling is wrong. It's fundamentally flawed.

 

HI isn't two checks:

1. Are you 'eligible'? That gives your 3"
2. Are you a Character? That gives you...?

Counter Charge says, again, "Select one Space Wolves unit from your army. Until the end of the phase, that unit is ELIGIBLE to perform a Heroic Intervention if it is within 6" of an enemy unit, and when performing a Heroic Intervention with that unit, you can move each model in that unit up to 6"."

 

The unit selected is eligible (or, as the meaning of the word, satisfying all of the requirements) to perform a Heroic Intervention. The Stratagem gives it permission to do so, and when doing so it triggers within 6" and moves up to 6". There is no logic to follow that a unit could use Counter Charge, not be a Character so it can then still move 3", that is completely illogical.

 

The only modification Character has on Counter Charge is making it cost 0CP. Counter Charge has no modified movement for a non-Character unit, and there core rules do not enforce this. The people who 'ruled' this are just wrong, they are creating a situation out of whole cloth.

 

 

 

Counter Charge:

"Use this Stratagem in your opponent's Charge phase. Select one Space Wolves unit from your army. Until the end of the phase, that unit is eligible to perform a Heroic Intervention if it is within 6" of an enemy unit, and when performing a Heroic Intervention with that unit, you can move each model in that unit up to 6". All other rules for Heroic Intervention still apply. This Stratagem costs 0CP if the Space Wolves unit you select is a Character."

[TiguriusX]

 

 

 

i think you are putting too much thought to it. Eligible in my eyes means it can do the trick.

This is the main SW counter argument. I made it myself to the TO saying I couldn't do it. The response was "eligible" refers to HI requirements (i.e., 3") Agree or disagree...this was the reason given for the ruling

 

***

An eligible CHARACTER unit is one that is not within Engagement Range of any enemy units, but is within 3" horizontally and 5" vertically of an enemy unit

***

Except that reason for the ruling is wrong. It's fundamentally flawed.

 

HI isn't two checks:

• Are you 'eligible'? That gives your 3"
• Are you a Character? That gives you...?

Counter Charge says, again, "Select one Space Wolves unit from your army. Until the end of the phase, that unit is ELIGIBLE to perform a Heroic Intervention if it is within 6" of an enemy unit, and when performing a Heroic Intervention with that unit, you can move each model in that unit up to 6"."

 

The unit selected is eligible (or, as the meaning of the word, satisfying all of the requirements) to perform a Heroic Intervention. The Stratagem gives it permission to do so, and when doing so it triggers within 6" and moves up to 6". There is no logic to follow that a unit could use Counter Charge, not be a Character so it can then still move 3", that is completely illogical.

 

The only modification Character has on Counter Charge is making it cost 0CP. Counter Charge has no modified movement for a non-Character unit, and there core rules do not enforce this. The people who 'ruled' this are just wrong, they are creating a situation out of whole cloth.

 

 

 

Counter Charge:

"Use this Stratagem in your opponent's Charge phase. Select one Space Wolves unit from your army. Until the end of the phase, that unit is eligible to perform a Heroic Intervention if it is within 6" of an enemy unit, and when performing a Heroic Intervention with that unit, you can move each model in that unit up to 6". All other rules for Heroic Intervention still apply. This Stratagem costs 0CP if the Space Wolves unit you select is a Character."

The counter argument is look at the wording for all stratagems and rules that grant a HI to non characters

 

They all say "as if a character"

 

The TO ruled "character" or rule that grants HI as if a character is a requirement for HI