Strike Squad and Nemesis Weapons leak!

[Icosiel]

Guys! One of my viewers sent me a leak to the data sheets for PAGK!

 

 

In short:

 

PAGK get 2W and 3A base, which is insane!

 

The Nemesis weapons are all going to D2!

[Waking Dreamer]

^ Some crazy stuff there. Of course just to temper some hype....there have been a lot of typos in box-kits datasheets before, so everyone should keep that in mind.

 

Eg. Falchions listed as D1 damage is highly inconsistent with other NFWs getting a flat D2. 

[Karhedron]

That is really strong. That means their basic infantry are nearly as good as Sanguinary Guard. Definitely sticking with the theme of Grey Knights being Marines+1.

[Waking Dreamer]

When it comes to Attacks stats here are some possibilities:

 

1. Box-kit typo.

2. GK losing shock assault and PAGK; GKT getting +2A base for the trouble.

3. GK losing shock assault with PAGK getting +2A base, BUT GKT getting +1A base (i.e. BOTH have A3 base).  

4. GK keeping shock assault with PAGK/GKT getting +2A base (i.e. PAGK / GKT get 4/5 attacks respectively in 1st turn).

[Waking Dreamer]

I'll give a nod to GW if they did managed to COMPLETE some GK rules immersion, in that a newbie GK is already fully capable of fighting in Terminator Armour (eg GK Terminator Troops), and that a GK in power-armour is as skilled as a GK in terminator armour = A3 base.

 

If true, hopefully Paladins get the subsequent A4 base. 

[Waking Dreamer]

 

The Nemesis weapons are all going to D2!

 

In the video, you mention and listed Falchions as D1...was that correct or did you mean to say D2 like the rest of the weapons - except for Daemonhammer?

[Captain Coolpants]

So incinerators become heavy?

 

Psilencers lose multi damage but get an ap.

 

 

 

I honestly don't believe the 3 attacks base on our basic guys. I'd like it. But don't believe it.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Captain Coolpants

[Corvus Fortis]

With free 3 attacks I don't believe we are keeping shock assault, but it is the better trade-off.

 

Without D2 falchions are not worth it compared to other weapons, except there are more than just +1 attack in their additional rules. 

 

Both halberds and swords seem to be balanced to each other, but in current meta with lots of t3 and t5 and less t4 halberds seem to be better. 

 

If we keep tide of convergence as it is, I think, -1 ap on psilencers gives us more than Dd3. Free twin-linked HB - heck, yes!

 

I also like D2 on force weapons more than Dd3. Yes, you can crit and kill something with high roll, but the same chances you miserably fail with lots of 2's. It is only bad against damage reduction (which is quite widespread right now), but we have smites for that stuff.

 

Psycannons to heavy bolters were already leacked and I like it more than 4 shots d1, if we keep tide of convergence as it is. 3 shots 8 -1 3 look very tasty.

 

Looks like or book is very near. I hope we won't have to wait until late August. 

[Waking Dreamer]

For the apparent inconsistency of falchions...could this be evidence of Falchions stats being copy+pasted from lightning claws now? That is, +1A per Falchion, and re-roll wounds.

 

So, if all stats revealed are actually true, what you could have from a 5-man squad is...25 attacks at S4 AP-2 D1, re-roll wounds? I guess that's the unit we send against Death Guard, Dreadnoughts, and SoB's Paragon Warsuits...?

[Ichar]

For the apparent inconsistency of falchions...could this be evidence of Falchions stats being copy+pasted from lightning claws now? That is, +1A per Falchion, and re-roll wounds.

 

So, if all stats revealed are actually true, what you could have from a 5-man squad is...25 attacks at S4 AP-2 D1, re-roll wounds? I guess that's the unit we send against Death Guard, Dreadnoughts, and SoB's Paragon Warsuits...?

The falchions perhaps replicating lightning claw stats was something I mentioned in another thread. Keeping them at D1 really hints at something good in the special rules for them. I for one would LOVE to see them act like lightning claws.

[Skywrath]

EDIT: Never mind, found it.

 

Interesting implications for sure.. However I am lamenting the nerf to psilencers and the output of D3. There is information we are missing for sure, but I personally loved my S6, -2AP, D3+1 AA purgation squad. That being said though, what do we think of the potential idea those changes could be because in the shooting tide, psychic onslaught/psybolt ammunition is baked in automatically?

 

Incinerator buff, meh. I still probably won't use them unless we get a strat to go with it to make them good (Psyflame).

Psilencers/Psycannons - see above, however D2 psycannons are very nice.

Demon Hammer - well that was to be expected, losing 1pt of AP. At least they will be 10pts each now.

Falchion - same thing as demon hammer.

Halberd - oh my, yes! Definitely the default weapon choice, as you would be reliably wounding things on 3's anyway (2's with hammerhand).

Sword - also a good choice, I wonder whether there will be a pts cost difference between those two options. 

Warding Staves - Did not expect that, however the implications of it being S7 with a potential relic/strat to buff things to S8, could be worth considering.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Skywrath

[Oiad]

Have a feeling GKTs will only be A3, though Paladins may be A4. And yeah, we're probably losing Shock Assault.

 

From a fluff perspective it makes sense that PAGK and GKT have the same attacks, as all Grey Knights have the option to wear terminator armour, not just our veterans. Why would they -1A just for changing armour? Remember; normal space marine terminators have +1A over regular marines because TA is normally only given to the veterans of their chapters.

 

 

^ Some crazy stuff there. Of course just to temper some hype....there have been a lot of typos in box-kits datasheets before, so everyone should keep that in mind.

 

Eg. Falchions listed as D1 damage is highly inconsistent with other NFWs getting a flat D2. 

 

Hopefully the D1 on the falchions is the typo here.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Oiad

[The Woodsman]

Yep this is pretty exciting! As has been said nothing is 100% certain until the actual release, but these changes are huge. Base 3 Attacks on Strike Marines makes me happy, I love those guys and have always run them as my Troops. Now they'll actually be murderous. Halberds are awesome, and happily my 15 Strikes and 10 Paladins are equipped with said Halberds, hello S6, -2, 2D. I'm okay with Falchions being -2, 1D, as long as they keep the extra attack rule. With the resurgence of hordes (AdMech seem to like running loads of Skitarii, Sisters, Orks will be a thing), my 4 attack Interceptors are gonna be nice. As far as the changes to Psi-Weapons go, I'll happily trade one shot on the Psycannon for flat D2, and to be fair the Psilencer was always meant to be an anti-horde thing... it makes sense that it will be D1 but with a -1 AP, and if Psychic Onslaught/Convergence stay the same then they will be key anti-horde weapons, especially when considering T5 Orks. We musn't assume that those things will stay as they are though, they could very well change. As far as the Incinerator goes, I do like an excuse to field my 4 old-school Incinerators, and could argue a deep striking Purgator squad with 4 Incinerators (they are free according to the points from the Field Manual) and even more so if they come backed up with a Stratagem (or if  Psychic Onslaught covers all three psiweapons - as it should.... or a "max shots" Stratagem..!?).  Otherwise, changes to Swords, Hammers and Staves seem pretty much in tune with other Imperial stuff, so no surprise there. But holy Emperor... if we're getting 2 Wound, 3 Attack Power Armored Marines and 3 Wound, 4 Attack Terminators across the board... HUGE. 

 

Thank you for this, Icosiel!

[Waking Dreamer]

Have a feeling GKTs will only be A3, though Paladins may be A4. And yeah, we're probably losing Shock Assault.

 

From a fluff perspective it makes sense that PAGK and GKT have the same attacks, as all Grey Knights have the option to wear terminator armour, not just our veterans. Why would they -1A just for changing armour? Remember; normal space marine terminators have +1A over regular marines because TA is normally only given to the veterans of their chapters.

 

 

Hopefully the D1 on the falchions is the typo here.

 

My thoughts exactly.  As impressive as it would be to have GKT having A4 base, I'm actually cool with them having the same attacks as PAGK. In other words, our Power-armoured GK have been raised up to terminator-level in combat. Well, a little better than the terminators from other Chapters as they will only get 3 attacks on the first turn.

 

I'm confident our Paladins will have the A4 base, similar to Deathshroud Terminators, Custodian Wardens and Custodian Terminators currently.

 

Thinking about, D1 Falchions is probably correct as then it has the exact stat profile as lighting claws, which brings them a step closer to +2A for twin and re-roll wounds - which would make them much more competitive again!

[Silas7]

Not to bring anyone down but isn't this standard fare GW for moving old kits?

 

On topic: What could this mean for purifiers? Would people actually field pagk?

[Waking Dreamer]

From the other thread:

 

 

What are the chances there are 8 individual typos (attacks stat) on that page?

 

Also, it's nice to see Purifiers getting there 7E leadership back - equal to Paladins and retaining a bit of their elite status.

[Waking Dreamer]

Not to bring anyone down but isn't this standard fare GW for moving old kits?

 

On topic: What could this mean for purifiers? Would people actually field pagk?

 

What do you mean? Are you talking about better rules? It's been natural in 9E for armies to get a boost in power/flexibility along with their Codex release. After the dark days of 8E where every FAQ seemed to punish an already lacklustre GK Codex army...I feel this 9E Codex MIGHT be helpful hand that rises GK armies out of the hole - albeit 3 years / 1 edition delayed. 

 

PAGK still have roles they can play in GK armies. Psycannons and Psilencers (incinerators are finally in line now also), have definitive roles and are a lot cheaper or free. So Purgation squads with Tide of Convergence could do work. Interceptors for their shunt and speed always had a place. Purifiers depending on their stratagems could be used as a more survivable Purgation squad, or depending on their smite rule could be interesting in the Psychic phase as well.

[angrom]

Falchions will either be +1 attack and reroll all wound or double the attack profile of the model

[Oiad]

Getting a sense of déjà vu; Going back a long time, there was a similar belief when weapons were leaked in 5E that falchions would receive both rerolls and +1A. When the stats were official released, it turned out they only received +1A. Hope I'm wrong but I can't help but feel that history is about to repeat itself...

Edited July 31, 2021 by Oiad

[Grimlock]

So incinerators become heavy?

 

Psilencers lose multi damage but get an ap.

 

 

 

I honestly don't believe the 3 attacks base on our basic guys. I'd like it. But don't believe it.

[Grimlock]

Yes incinerators went heavy 6, I know why are they not assault. So heavy incinerators will be what heavy heavy d6??

 

Can’t say I am happy about the psilencers str 4 -1 1 damage eh kind of under whelming. But I am just looking at the stats. If the tides of the warp stay the same we have some play there if they change or remove that in some way I don’t see the range weapons being good.

 

Melee yes falchions are damage 1, again I am just looking at the profiles swords and halberd are better.

 

There were no bonuses listed or rules in place so who knows what could happen. IF and that word is big IF we keep strats and tides. A psilencer would be str 6 -2 2dam with psychic onslaught and the tide. Psycannon str9 -2 3damage. Again IF we keep what we already have.