Skiatarii support for Knights?

[Karhedron]

This may be a bit premature since Knights do not have a proper 9th edition codex yet but I am just trying to get a handle on how our big stompy boys may play in 9th.

 

Knights are as killy as ever although the increased lethality across the board means their survivability has probably taken a bit of a tumble. The biggest problem is that the focus on Objectives means Knights' lack of ObjSec units could cause problems.

 

My plan is to include a small Patrol detachment of AdMech to provide some boots on the ground. My current plan is a cheap HQ (probably a Skitari Marshal) and 3 5-man Ranger squads, each with a TUA. I originally came up with the idea in 8th edition when doing this would provide extra CPs. In 9th it will actually cost CPs to add these guys to a Knights army but I think the ability to hold Objectives while the Knights concentrate on killing the enemy will still be worthwhile. It also only costs about 200 points for 3 ObjSec units with decent durability and shooting and a cheap buff character.

 

Knights currently do not suffer from being souped but AdMech lose their Canticles and Doctrina Imperatives. At the moment this seems like a fair trade although if Knights later gain mono-faction bonuses, it might not be.

 

What do people think? Is it still worth the price of souping in 9th to get the added flexibility? What Forgeworld would suit my Skitarii best? Lucius looks like the best FW for a minimalist Skitarii force. +1 to their armour against 1D shots that can also be stacked with Cover looks really good for keeping my squishy Cyborgs alive. And if the enemy dedicates any multi-damage weaponry to remove them, at least it isn't targeting my Knights. Lucius also gives access to the Legio Teleportarum stratagem which means I can put a unit in Reserve and teleport it on to the Battlefield late game to snag an unguarded Objective.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Karhedron

[DanPesci]

If your going to soup troops, then rangers are point for point one of the best to do it with right now (and thematic).

 

Id probably drop the arqebus (unless you have the points spare). I always take 1 in each squad but thats in a full admech army.

 

The new FAQ means lucius cant stack their AP buff if already in light cover, so id say less effective on small 5 man units who may be in cover anyway. Teleport is still super useful as long as things arent screened though.

 

Stygies may suit you better if its additional board control you are after (-1 to hit at range, and can spend CP to deploy units midfield).

Im probably biased as a stygies player myself.. But id run them as that, drop the arqebus, take 2x5 man ranger squads for backfield, and then as many vanguard as you can fit in one unit to then potentially deploy midfield 

[Karhedron]

Thanks for the suggestions. I hadn't read the FAQ but I can see why Lucius may have been slightly too good before. Stygies does look like a good alternative from a defensive POV.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

if you are going to soup with AM, how can you not take a Tech priests to heal the Knights?  I'm not fully read up on the new AM but if I were going to use them to sally forth with, I would find a way to make a heal monkey happen.  The Idea at its core,  boots on the ground to do actions and be ob sec, is one I also plan to do.  I wont use the AM, instead I'll go with a "loyal 32" , Imperial Guard force.  20 man Blob Conscript, 10 man Tactical, Commissar, and some other HQ.    Just like you it will cost CP instead of giving them.  This is one of the reasons i want to do it as it felt so grimey to do it last addition.  Now it feels like nostalgia.  

[Karhedron]

if you are going to soup with AM, how can you not take a Tech priests to heal the Knights?

The new AM codex has removed that option. When I originally planned the idea in late 8th, that was exactly what I intended to do. But Tech Priests in the new AM Codex can only repair AdMech <Forgeworld> vehicles now.

 

The days of them being able to repair any Imperial vehicles have come to an end.

[walter h]

SO. Do techpriest still run in Asta Militarum? Edited August 7, 2021 by walter h

[Karhedron]

SO. Do techpriest still run in Asta Militarum?

I think they do. In theory, I could run an AM detachment but I suspect that this would only be a short term fix as the AM Techpriest is likely to receive the same restrictions when the AM 9th edition codex. I suspect GW ae trying to eliminate unintended cross-faction interactions.

[MegaVolt87]

Aren't there knights data sheets in the new ad mech codex? I don't hear much about new ad mech except - OP, skiatarii busted, noob GW devs etc. If they can't be repaired anymore and the rest of the dex is solid, whats the draw of ad mech knights now? 

[Karhedron]

No, Knights are missing from the new AdMech codex. I don't think adding a single Knight to an Admech army has much appeal now, especially since te AdMech guns have generally got better in 9th.

 

What I am trying to determine is whether adding a small amount of AdMech infantry to a mainly Knights army is worthwhile. In my experience, even shooty Knights like the Castellan will want to be in combat sometimes as it is hard to leverage the full value of a Knight chassis from firepower alone. You really want to shoot, charge and  stomp. Then in your next turn you withdraw, rinse and repeat. This makes holding Objectives tricky. So adding a small amount of allied ObjSec infantry seems like it would cover Knights weakness.

 

Although the AdMech would lose their monofaction bonus, Knights would be unaffected. I suspect that come the new Knight codex, that might no longer be the case.

[MajorNese]

Aren't there knights data sheets in the new ad mech codex?

No. They were in the old codex as stopgap solution (there was no IK codex, just WD index), and now that IK are their own codex, they're not in there any more.

 

AdMech has a rule that they can include one superheavy auxilia detachment (1 LoW slot) per AdMech detachment without breaking the mono-faction rules (like inquisitors or assassins), but you still pay CP for that detachment as always. Cawl himself can repair any Imperium vehicle, but no one else can repair knights.

[MegaVolt87]

Maybe the way would have been to release IK first then ad mech dex could have had the knights in it also? Bit late now, but I find knights interesting regardless (along with the toaster boys). 

[MajorNese]

Maybe the way would have been to release IK first then ad mech dex could have had the knights in it also? Bit late now, but I find knights interesting regardless (along with the toaster boys). 

Nope, wouldn't have happened even if the release schedule was the other way around.

 

When the AdMech codex had knights in it, there was only a single Knight kit (the expanded standard knight kit). Besides the datasheets, there was absolutely nothing - it was still an Index army at that point. No chapter tactics, no rules to make them a full and varied faction, no fluff, just 5 datasheets, 2 pages of generic army composition rules (redundant in the AdMech codex) and that's it.

Putting in those 5 pages was doable - but it made a lot of mess later, having to keep those pages up to date with every rules update since it wasn't technically invalidated as long as AdMech wouldn't get a newer codex.

 

Now IK have more than twice the profiles, several pages each just for strats/chapter tactics/WL traits/relics, their own fluff, and (with 9th) Crusade rules. The current IK codex wouldn't have fit the AdMech codex (50 pages just datasheets/rules), Engine War added even more stuff, and 9th has even more stuff that already made the AdMech codex drop a lot of the fluff space to make it fit.

 

That ship has sailed - IK are their own faction, with their own full codex, and GW intends to keep it that way.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

 

Maybe the way would have been to release IK first then ad mech dex could have had the knights in it also? Bit late now, but I find knights interesting regardless (along with the toaster boys). 

 

 

 

That ship has sailed - IK are their own faction, with their own full codex, and GW intends to keep it that way.

 

 

Maybe one day IK will get its own forum too...

[Focslain]

 

 

Maybe the way would have been to release IK first then ad mech dex could have had the knights in it also? Bit late now, but I find knights interesting regardless (along with the toaster boys). 

 

 

 

That ship has sailed - IK are their own faction, with their own full codex, and GW intends to keep it that way.

 

 

Maybe one day IK will get its own forum too...

 

 

That has to deal with usage, even the SM forums were merged in a sense last year. Admech as a faction on the B&C doesn't get enough traffic overall to warrant splitting IK and Admech apart. 

 

Besides with the knight of the Cog option in the admech codex the IK might have that in reverse but it would be a patrol. Much like the OP is planning on doing already.

[Karhedron]

A reverse "Knight of the Cog" stratagem would be great. Maybe something to represent the personal retinues of the Sacristans.

 

However, even without it, the original question still stands. Is adding a small Patrol detachment of Skitarii to my Knights worth it? It gives me some cheap ObjSec units and some character sniping ability (if I take TUAs). Yes I lose the Canticles/Doctrinas on the Skitarii but the Knights abilities are not affected (although this may change when the new IK Codex comes out).

[Focslain]

Honestly I'm for just fielding a pure knight force and a helverin can thin out a blocking squad semi-easily. 

 

Then it just about killing the right units. 

 

As for your proposed force, it looks good but will take more fire then you think for the reason your planning on taking them. Lucius might be your best bet just to hold them until you can snag objectives that your opponent left unguarded. Don't expect them to last long though. 

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Knights cant preform "actions".  That is a big problem in 9th.  I hope they have an answer for this once they release the Codex.  This is a bigger issue then the lack of Ob sec.

[Focslain]

Knights cant preform "actions".  That is a big problem in 9th.  I hope they have an answer for this once they release the Codex.  This is a bigger issue then the lack of Ob sec.

Actually they can as long as the action states a unit and not specifically infantry, the sabotage mission is a good example. Just that knights tend to field low model count forces so wasting a turn doing the action can hurt.

 

That also limits us in agenda selections, but same would be for any force light on infantry, like a fluffy white scar army.

 

It's why the forgeshrine is so useless. 

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Even if they can perform some small % of actions, doing so with a Knight, even a small one, is loosing.  Having some foot sloggers around to do the small work is a good solution.

[walter h]

My Knight, has an Admec,bodyguard, of Skitarii Rangers, in service to the Sacrista n, who serves the Knights, machine spirit, and form. ALL hail the Omnissiah.

[hermanista]

Pure knights all day long.

 

We don't need those tiny clanky men, just 40-60ft of steel and precious metals!