Fight first / fight last need help

[Grimlock]

I don’t understand this mechanic with the new FAQ that came out a month or so ago. My question is this if I charge with a unit who has either of these abilities who fights first. I read the rules several times and I still don’t understand thanks in advance for all the help.

[Marshal Loss]

See the rulebook, p. 361:

• If both units have similar rules (e.g. one charged and one has always fights first) then you alternate selecting units to fight with from amongst these units, starting with the player whose turn it is

[Oxydo]

We had a thread on this last year, so I'm going to shamelessly use Closet Skeleton and BluejayJunior's posts from it.

 

Units that charged a previous turn get nothing and 9th ed changed it so if its not your turn you get first pick.

 

Its

 

1. Units that always fight first or charged or interrupt, alternating and starting with the player whose turn it is

2. Other units, starting with the player whose turn it isn't.

3. Any unit that can't fight until the end, alternating and starting with the player whose turn it is.

 

Or

 

1. Player picks a unit that charged or always strikes first to fight

2. Opponent picks a unit to interupt or one that always strikes first

Repeat until you run out.

2b. Player can pay cp to interupt if opponent has multiple units that always strike first

3. Opponent picks a unit that didn't charge and isn't fighting last or has both a rule that makes them strike first and a rule that makes them strike last (they cancel out)

4. Player picks a unit that didn't charge.

Repeat alternating

5. Player picks a unit that can't fight until the end.

6. Opponent picks a unit that can't fight until the end.

Repeat.

But otherwise, the Rare Rules section lays out how units that fight first/last work in regard to priority. It is:

1) Units that charged or always fight first (alternating activations starting with the player whose turn it is)

2) Units that did not charge (alternating starting with the player whose turn is not taking place)

3) Units that always fight last (alternating starting with the player whose turn it is).

Full thread for reference: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367925-verifying-order-in-which-units-attack-during-the-fight-phase/

[Grimlock]

We had a thread on this last year, so I'm going to shamelessly use Closet Skeleton and BluejayJunior's posts from it.

 

 

Units that charged a previous turn get nothing and 9th ed changed it so if its not your turn you get first pick.

 

Its

 

1. Units that always fight first or charged or interrupt, alternating and starting with the player whose turn it is

2. Other units, starting with the player whose turn it isn't.

3. Any unit that can't fight until the end, alternating and starting with the player whose turn it is.

 

Or

 

1. Player picks a unit that charged or always strikes first to fight

2. Opponent picks a unit to interupt or one that always strikes first

Repeat until you run out.

2b. Player can pay cp to interupt if opponent has multiple units that always strike first

3. Opponent picks a unit that didn't charge and isn't fighting last or has both a rule that makes them strike first and a rule that makes them strike last (they cancel out)

4. Player picks a unit that didn't charge.

Repeat alternating

5. Player picks a unit that can't fight until the end.

6. Opponent picks a unit that can't fight until the end.

Repeat.

But otherwise, the Rare Rules section lays out how units that fight first/last work in regard to priority. It is:

1) Units that charged or always fight first (alternating activations starting with the player whose turn it is)

2) Units that did not charge (alternating starting with the player whose turn is not taking place)

3) Units that always fight last (alternating starting with the player whose turn it is).

Full thread for reference: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367925-verifying-order-in-which-units-attack-during-the-fight-phase/

So pretty much if you charge you will fight first in both cases of fight first fight last. Unless you have multiple units charging.

[Tyriks]

I was under the impression that the player whose turn it isn't still chooses first for units among the fight first/fight last groups (when applicable).  I don't have my book at hand to confirm that, but does someone have a reference one way or the other on that?  

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Under the strict rule (so, without the "clarification" by GW) that would be true - player whose turn isn't activates first,

 

However, the Designer's Commentary does change it, as it specifically states that the player whose turn it is activates first for fights first and fights last - its set out on the 1st page of the Commentary.

[Oxydo]

Under the strict rule (so, without the "clarification" by GW) that would be true - player whose turn isn't activates first,

 

However, the Designer's Commentary does change it, as it specifically states that the player whose turn it is activates first for fights first and fights last - its set out on the 1st page of the Commentary.

I was under the impression that the player whose turn it isn't still chooses first for units among the fight first/fight last groups (when applicable).  I don't have my book at hand to confirm that, but does someone have a reference one way or the other on that?

 

It was never changed with the Designer's Commentary, that combined with the FAQ only expanded and clarified the Always Strike First/Last section from Rare rules, p361-2, and how it works when a unit gets affected by both types of effects.

 

Here's the relevant section from page 361-2, emphasis mine.

 

Some rules allow a unit from your army to always fight first in the Fight phase, even if they didn't make a charge move this turn. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that has similar rules, then alternate selecting units to fight with from amongst these units, starting with the player WHOSE turn is taking place.

 

Similarly, some rules say that a certain unit cannot be selected to fight in the Fight phase until after all other eligible units have done so. If both players have units that cannot fight until after all other units have done so, then alternate selecting which of those units to fight with, starting with the player WHOSE turn is taking place.

Personally I divide the fight phase into three sub-phases, just like how BuejayJunior described, to make it easy for me.

Another way to go about it is to think of it like three different pools of units.

[Grimlock]

 

Under the strict rule (so, without the "clarification" by GW) that would be true - player whose turn isn't activates first,

 

However, the Designer's Commentary does change it, as it specifically states that the player whose turn it is activates first for fights first and fights last - its set out on the 1st page of the Commentary.

I was under the impression that the player whose turn it isn't still chooses first for units among the fight first/fight last groups (when applicable). I don't have my book at hand to confirm that, but does someone have a reference one way or the other on that?

It was never changed with the Designer's Commentary, that combined with the FAQ only expanded and clarified the Always Strike First/Last section from Rare rules, p361-2, and how it works when a unit gets affected by both types of effects.

 

Here's the relevant section from page 361-2, emphasis mine.

 

Some rules allow a unit from your army to always fight first in the Fight phase, even if they didn't make a charge move this turn. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that has similar rules, then alternate selecting units to fight with from amongst these units, starting with the player WHOSE turn is taking place.

 

Similarly, some rules say that a certain unit cannot be selected to fight in the Fight phase until after all other eligible units have done so. If both players have units that cannot fight until after all other units have done so, then alternate selecting which of those units to fight with, starting with the player WHOSE turn is taking place.

Personally I divide the fight phase into three sub-phases, just like how BuejayJunior described, to make it easy for me.

Another way to go about it is to think of it like three different pools of units.

Why did they add this mechanic to so many units to complicate things and slow the game down. ROFL

[Tyriks]

 

Under the strict rule (so, without the "clarification" by GW) that would be true - player whose turn isn't activates first,

 

However, the Designer's Commentary does change it, as it specifically states that the player whose turn it is activates first for fights first and fights last - its set out on the 1st page of the Commentary.

I was under the impression that the player whose turn it isn't still chooses first for units among the fight first/fight last groups (when applicable).  I don't have my book at hand to confirm that, but does someone have a reference one way or the other on that?

 

It was never changed with the Designer's Commentary, that combined with the FAQ only expanded and clarified the Always Strike First/Last section from Rare rules, p361-2, and how it works when a unit gets affected by both types of effects.

 

Here's the relevant section from page 361-2, emphasis mine.

 

Some rules allow a unit from your army to always fight first in the Fight phase, even if they didn't make a charge move this turn. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that has similar rules, then alternate selecting units to fight with from amongst these units, starting with the player WHOSE turn is taking place.

 

Similarly, some rules say that a certain unit cannot be selected to fight in the Fight phase until after all other eligible units have done so. If both players have units that cannot fight until after all other units have done so, then alternate selecting which of those units to fight with, starting with the player WHOSE turn is taking place.

Personally I divide the fight phase into three sub-phases, just like how BuejayJunior described, to make it easy for me.

Another way to go about it is to think of it like three different pools of units.

 

Thanks for clarifying.  I wasn't looking at the Designer's Commentary, only the BRB.