14 replies to this topic

[librisrouge]

Figured it would be a good idea for me to start a WIP thread to motivate me to get some painting in. I enjoy painting but I'm slow about it and, while it helps me relax, I can't do it above a certain point of stress. I'm a teacher and it is the beginning of the school year. Stress is high. So, I need to get me some of that motivation.

 

Here is what my brotherhood is packing so far. An Ancient, Librarian, Chaplain, and a 5 man strike squad. I think I'll paint some more strike marines next, in order to get some heavy weapons into the squad that look nice.

 

 

I got a game in this weekend with the new codex. It was against my 10 year old son but I gave the kiddo a 500 point lead (1500ish vs 2000ish) as I'm trying to teach him the game and was kinda hoping to lose. I did want to try out a few things and have a couple of observations about them.

 

Pros-

• I'm in love with the Nuke Librarian (Purifying Flamer and Vortex of Doom with the Sigil of Exigence and Psychic Epitome). He's relatively cheap but can really put out the hurt with a few CPs. I'd hate to face him with no Deny the Witch in my army. On turn 1, I Gated him forward and he nuked a vindicator off the table. He was shot at the next turn, teleported to safety. Two turns later, he was Gated to some land speeders who were giving me trouble and nuked both of them off the table. By then, he was out of serious shooting and I just walked the rest of the game. This guy will be in every list.
• Crow is a great budget beat stick. He isn't amazing but he is certainly worth his points. Since that has literally never been true, I'm glad to see the improvement.
• Apothecaries with terminators can get scary. My boy was pissed when he finally got two kills on the terminators (who had 5+ FNP the whole game), only for me to heal the wounded one and then bring another back.
• Interceptors will be almost required in the future, I feel. GKs aren't a fast army and Gate isn't a sure thing without bonuses to cast. Just having a unit with 12" movement was a world of difference.
• Tide of Convergence is fun as heck. Getting +6" on psychic guns helps them a lot and mortal wounds in melee quickly gets nuts.
• The Aegis is almost laughably fun. I didn't think about it when I first read the rule but Perils does mortal wounds and now we have a save against mortal wounds. Good times.
• Regular Smite on squads is nutty and I like it. I hope it doesn't get nerfed. It is powerful but not breaking. GK damage will mostly come from MWs and melee.

Cons-

• Boy, oh boy, are we slow. Outside of teleporting, we're crawling about. It makes a compelling argument for NDKs and interceptors, but most people already knew that.
• Storm bolters don't feel as amazing as they used to. It might be because I was facing two wound marines with some terminators on his side but I always felt like shooting as just something I could sprinkle on for more flavor, rather than meaningfully contributing. No AP hurts them.
• Psilencers...I don't like them. The number of shots is nice but we've got that everywhere. I imagine incinerators and psycannons are the go to for this edition, honestly.
• Empyric Amplification is probably nice. I say that because I never got to use it. 12" on it isn't great. I kept killing everything that got that close before it mattered that I could shoot at them better. Almost certainly, I need to get better at using it but I'm also convinced it just isn't as good as I suspected. Helpful but not too powerful.
• Perservers were nice for a 5+ FNP on terminators but I'm hard pressed to see myself use the other aspects of it like I probably should. I wish I felt like normal dreads would be worth it but perhaps I'm still salty about Ven Dreads being Honored Knights. Might have to give the Prescient Brotherhood a try. Their strat seems awesome for interceptors, since they'll commonly out range support auras.

I'm sure my ideas are either obvious or amateurish but it was refreshing to field GKs without feeling like I'm handicapped. I don't think they'll be top tier, once the meta adjusts, but I do think they'll be a gatekeeper army that you have to think about. Those subfactions with defenses against mortal wounds will certainly seem more appealing.

[war009]

Love it. 

[librisrouge]

So, I haven't gotten anything meaningfully painted (the beginning of the school year is busy) but I did attend a RTT this weekend, so I figure a brief battle report is worthwhile.

 

I took:

Brotherhood - Swordbearers

Libby - Psychic Epitome, Sigil, Purifying Flamer, Vortex of Doom, Stave, and Storm Bolter

GMDK - Teleporter, Hammer, Psilencer, Psycannon, and Servant of the Throne

Strike x5 - Sword, Halberd x3, and Psycannon

Strike x5 - Sword, Halberd x3, and Psycannon

Strike x5 - Sword, Halberd x3, and Psycannon

Strike x5 - Sword, Halberd x3, and Psycannon

Dreadnought - Multimelta and Storm Bolter

Interceptors x10 - Hammer, Stave, Sword x3, and Halberd x5

Interceptors x10 - Hammer, Stave, Sword x3, and Halberd x5

Dreadknight - Teleporter, Sword, Psilencer, and Psycannon

Dreadknight - Teleporter, Sword, Psilencer, and Psycannon

Dreadknight - Teleporter, Sword, Psilencer, and Psycannon

 

Game 1 vs. Harliquins-

 

He had (something like):

Shadowseer, Troupe Master, 4 Troupes w/ Fusion Pistols, Troupe w/ Neuro Disruptor, Troupe w/ Not Much, Death Jester, Solitaire, 2 Slyweavers x5 w/ Haywire, Starweavers x5

 

I was worried because he got 1st turn and could hit like a truck, particularly against vehicles (which my army kinda relies upon). This was my 2nd game with the new codex, so I wasn't quite as familiar with some of the new rules, nor how they could skew certain interactions.

 

He tries to blitz me, running forward to secure a number of objectives and take an early lead on points. He opened up on my GMNDK and this is where the rules really start to shine. I pop Servant of the Throne and between it and my FNP on mortal wounds, he survives the first turn. Aside from a few dropped bodies, I'm largely unscathed and he's in arms reach. He uses a stratagem to back up a bike squad but I'm in a good place to punch back.

 

I start advancing on objectives, purifying them (after smiting him off of them in the psychic phase), and killing anything I can. Brother Godwinson (the NDK that earned his name this day) shunted behind his force, shot up the shadowseer (after a skimmer was killed first, exposing him) and then took almost his entire armies shooting the next round. The librarian joined him next turn and ended up teleporting to safety later, leaving poor Godwinson to fight on alone. He'd eventually shunt to safety and then die when Periling on a smite. Still, he bought his army precious time.

 

Ultimately, I was able to engage the harlies in a game of attrition. He'd kill a unit or two, hold a few objectives, and then I'd kill him off the objectives and purify/hold back. I ended up winning in large part thanks to the FNP against MWs we picked up and the 2nd wound the marines have. I got a bit luck, besides with Godwinson, when his troupe leader charged a strike squad and they were able to interrupt and kill him before he went.

 

All and all a pleasant first outing and an awesome opponent.

 

Win - 82-45

 

Game 2 vs. Deathwatch (Inquisition grudge match!)

 

He had (something like):

Captain with Relic Shield and Xenophase Blade

Master of the Forge with gibbing

Veterans with Shields

Incursors x5

3 Proteus Kill Teams with Shield Vets, Bikes, and a Vanguard Vet

2 Redemptor Dreads

3 Contemptor Dreads w VOLKITE!

 

Those dreads scared me a bit. -1 damage is a strong rule and they're very well armed with a lot of bonuses stacked. I'm not 100% sure but the captain might have been a chapter master (can Deathwatch take those?)

 

We started in table corners with objectives in each corner region and the middle. He went first and promptly blasted 1.5 dreadknights off the table (yikes!) I counter attacked with shoving the rest of my hard elements down the front, setting up MWs, and moving interceptors around the corners of the table. The interceptors used their superior melee to clear off the corner objectives and a strike squad followed them to secure it once they moved on.

 

The decisive moment came when I charged a demisquad of vets with my GMDK and did nothing between my bad rolls and his good rolles. He countered with both redemptors and almost killed my GMDK. By then the dread could come to help and, between MWs and attacks, both redemptors ate it. Is it just me or are they point for point the best thing around? He finished off my GMDK but by then my dread and interceptors were amongst his contemptors and he was out of infantry to block things or take objectives and I had secured every objectives except his for multiple turns.

 

Result - Win - 81-44

 

Game 3 vs. Imperial Fists (Top Table!)

 

He had (something like):

Phobos Captain - Chapter Master and Eye of Hypnoth (all the auras)

Master of the Forge - All of the Pro-Dread things

Chaplain - Master of Sanctity, 5+ FNP on MWs Canticle, Canticle that helps shooting closest target

2x5 Incursors

3x5 Intercessors - Auto, Regular, and Stalker Bolter Rifles

Inceptors x3 - Bolters

Primaris Attack Bikes - MMs

Redeptor Dreadnoughts x3 - Gatling x1 and Plasma x2

 

This player is good at his game. He hid the entire army behind cover and that might have decided the whole game. I caused me to waste my first turn, for the most part. Of course, this is the game I win the role to go first. Wish I could pass on it.

 

The GMDK makes the charge, after gating, on his bike guys and kills them both. I don't accomplish anything else turn one, iirc. He comes out and murders the GMNDK (IF first turn against vehicles is NUTS!) I begin to try to play cagey, getting points while trying to deny him objectives. It almost works but I make a big error and kill the gatling dread when I should have focused on the plasma ones. They're the threat to the dreadknights and I needed them to last more turns. In the end, he was basically out of dudes but the dreads marched up killed all but one strike squad and he made up the points difference in the back half of the game by a fairly high margin.

 

Result - Lose - 62-82

 

Thoughts from the events:

• Interceptor's speed is critical. All GK armies will probably have at least one unit of them (that worries me for the next point adjustment) because it is the only unit we have that can reliably get around. One opponent asked me why I never combat squaded them and then promptly found out when they saw what a full squad can accomplish in melee. Their Sanctic power isn't that great, until you find yourself wanting to use it, then it is invaluable. A great ace in the hole to have.
• NDKs are a charm but not as strong as people thing. Point for point, there are better units in most armies that accomplish similar things. Where it shines is the versatility. Melee? Got this fancy sword here. Shooting? Guns akimbo. Joining the Psychic Phase? Don't mind if I do. Need to hold objectives? SHUNT! Need to not die? 5+ FNP to MWs and very respectable saves. They pay for that and, as a result, are not overwhelmingly good at any one of them.
• I absolutely, positively need to get better about using the Swordbearers psychic power. It is amazing for lists like mine and I kept neglecting it. The fact that every squad knows it means that it should be used almost every turn.
• Purifying objectives is the best rule in the codex. I consistently found myself struggling to pick secondaries and I'd hate having to rely on normal actions since we have not way to do them and other things.
• The dreadnought was better than I thought he'd be. He's my only high damage weapon and that was clutch something. -1 damage gives him under appreciated toughness against a lot of weapons people rely upon to kill medium armor.
• The Aegis is solid and I love it.
• 2 Wounds changes the marine dynamic much more than I thought it would and I assumed it would be a lot. Having squads that can take a hit is incredible.
• I struggle to pick useful Tides. I went with Convergence every time and didn't really regret it but often questioned if Celerity would be better.
• Psycannons in my strike squads is something that will be sticking around. I like the dakka while purifying objectives.

[Dosjetka]

I very much appreciate the write-up, thank you for sharing!

Are you choosing the Nemesis weapons in your squads based on what you have assembled or is there some other reason in mind?
With regards to Psycannons, do you find the fact that they are Heavy impacts the Strikes' mobility (i.e. you end up not moving them because you're dropping from 3+ to 4+ To Hit)?

[librisrouge]

Are you choosing the Nemesis weapons in your squads based on what you have assembled or is there some other reason in mind?
For the most part, yes. I did swap one guy in my interceptor squads to a stave because they weren't primed yet, so it was easy. Thankfully, I find that the practical difference between the sword and halberd is so minor that I'd probably take a mix of them anyway. I like to give the interceptor justicar a hammer to take advantage of the fact that they'll likely get into melee and have 4 attacks.

 

With regards to Psycannons, do you find the fact that they are Heavy impacts the Strikes' mobility (i.e. you end up not moving them because you're dropping from 3+ to 4+ To Hit)?

Yes, it does. Not in an emphatically frustrating way or anything like that. I just have to constantly ask myself, "Is the movement I want to do worth getting .5 less shots?" If yes, move. If no, don't move. I does mean that some actions have consequences, but when isn't that true. My strike squads are predominantly given the task of sitting on objectives and purifying them. This means that they were often holding still after a turn or two anyway. Plus, since Tide of Convergence was my most (only) common pick, the +6" range was well served. Damage 2 gives it some nice stopping power and helps the squad feel like it is contributing martially, beyond just racking up sweet, sweet, primary and secondary points.

[Dosjetka]

I very much appreciate the replies and explanations, librisrouge. Thank you.

Good to know that the difference between swords and halberds is indeed quite minor: I've been having some "option paralysis" with regards to those as I'm building my units up from scratch mostly.
Would you recommend putting a stave in each squad to potentially benefit from the defensive strat Grey Knights have access to or are there, in your opinion, units that just don't need it?

[librisrouge]

It depends on whether they'll be in melee. The stave is still a perfectly fine weapon, so just ask yourself if there is a situation where you'd use that stratagem. It is only a 5+ invul., so you might legitimately say no. I find that there are time when I'd be glad to give 10 interceptors a small invul (charging terminators, for example) so I include it. My five man squads are something I wouldn't bother with on. Any terminator squad over 5 man are ones I'd probably include one in.

[Trollbeard]

My strikes are modelled with swords, but they also have the hammer hand power to re roll wounds, which helps out with the lower strength. My interceptors have halberds for higher wound rolls. I also put a stave in with my interceptors to use the strat for some added protection if needed.

[Gnomeo]

Great write up. just following the conversation about warding stave the invul is only against ranged attacks. Just something to be aware of.

[librisrouge]

Great write up. just following the conversation about warding stave the invul is only against ranged attacks. Just something to be aware of.

I honestly had to check the book after you posted that because I would have bet money that it was only in melee. Wow, that is a helluva thing to be wrong on. Glad I haven't had much of an opportunity to use it thus far. I think the same, general, thoughts still apply but wow was I wrong.

 

I think that makes staves particularly important on purgation squads and any purifier squads you may have tooled up for shooting.

Edited by librisrouge, 13 September 2021 - 06:02 PM.

[Dosjetka]

If memory serves, the stave gave the inv. save only in close combat previously (might have even been up to 8th Edition, not sure). Definitely something to keep in mind!

Thank you all for your replies.

[librisrouge]

No new painting, yet, but I did get in a simple 8 man rogue trader event in this weekend. It was fun. Played the same list (GMNDK, lib, strikes 4x5, interceptors 2x10, NDK x3) and went up against Chaos marines, templars, and the dread forces of the dark prince, Slannesh.

 

Just a few observations.

 

Game 1 vs. Iron Warriors-

I lost this game. Part of it is clearly owed to my opponent. He went on to be 3-0 and won the whole shebang. He's a good player who knows his list.

 

The other part goes to my dice. They basically took the first two psychic phases off. Every 2d6 roll I made didn't get higher than a 6, including a few charge rolls. This made me vulnerable to his Deny attempts, meaning I was basically stuck walking about. His shooting, primarily through various not-dreadnoughts and a pack of obliterators, did what it was meant to do and routinely destroyed my forces while some venomcrawlers and a disco-lord put paid to my NDKs.

 

Game 2 vs. Black Templars-

This had me a bit worried. He had 5 dreadnoughts, which I hate, and two big units of melee stompers, hammer terminators and bladeguard, backed up by a Master of Sanctity (anti-psy chant) and a Chief Apothecary. If I made even the smallest mistake, he'd have made me pay for it. I certainly wasn't going to beat him in melee, he was too much tougher than me.

 

So I didn't try...

 

I shot him. I was amused before the game when various players (not my opponent) were commenting on the uselessness of bolters in the current edition. They couldn't be more wrong if they'd tried. Storm bolters, psylencers, and psycannons poured it on, boosted by psychic powers where I could and stratagems. He'd spent the first turn advancing on me, and I spent it mostly not advancing. His terminator squad was reduced to 2 men and the bladeguard lost a dude to my dread's mutlimelta. I was also lucky that my interceptors, going for the big money, made the charge on his eradicators, who were hiding behind some terrain.

 

The big money came when he had positioned a rear castle of three dreads backed by his bones equipped marshall (all damage is 1 damage). He thought he was clear of teleporting, and he almost was. There was just enough room to fit my librarian, who was Gate'd over there. One super purifying flame and vortex later, and he was sans one support character. Of course, he was smart enough to just not shoot me, pulping the poor lib with a redemptor the next fight phase.

 

By then, I think I'd spooked him. He hunkered down, not wanting to risk breaking up his bladeguard castle by not making the charge with characters, and this gave me another round to start advancing and shooting him up. Terminators were finished, the first dread died, and the bladeguard were reduced to a much smaller number.

 

By then, I was firmly in charge and actually started making points. All the important objectives were in the middle of the table, so neither of use had scored much up to that point. 

 

Game 3 vs. Slannesh-

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, daemons. He'd won one of his previous games by turn 2, so I knew I was in for a treat. The army was FAST, with 3 greater daemons, the special greater daemon, Belakor, 60 daemonettes, 2 seekers?, and 3 chariots. 

 

I've literally never played against daemons with Grey Knights and was very much looking forward to this. He deployed aggressives, of course, and I deployed back. I knew that he could out melee me (boy howdy could he!) so I needed a turn or two to stack up shots and mortal wounds. He went first and went right up the center. However, he did very little that first turn. I was too far back to charge and his psychic phase was a defense power on a monster (so I just didn't shoot at that one) and a smite that did 1 wound. Sometime, having a million DtW attempts is fun.

 

On my turn, I lunged at him with 1/2 my army. The guard player in me took over and I knew what I had to do.

1. Shoot him up and make him bleed. I needed to deny him bodies and attacks.
2. Setup a few units to take the charges the next turn for the whole army.

Terrain left him little room to maneuver and the plan basically went off. Three units of daemonettes died to glorious storm bolter fire, ditto for those seekers (ugly horse things without riders), and one of the big monsters. Of course, at this point, he simply put the monster in reserves with 2 CP, because DAMNATION do I hate that strat. Oh well. I also killed a chariot with a charging interceptor squad who teleported behind his forces.

 

On his turn, he charged right on it. It mostly went as you'd expect. He under committed against an interceptor unit, not killing it, over committed against some strike squads, absolutely murdering them, and only barely not killing my GMNDK who'd been charged by the resurrected monster lady. Thankfully, the GMNDK put her in the ground like a nail (why don't more folks use hammers?)

 

On my next turn, everything lashed out. This was going to be my last turn to hurt him on my terms and I needed to give it my all. Thankfully, it worked. He'd been unable to get any defensive powers up the last game and fours or fives for invuls. don't always cut it. The dreadnought most notably finished off a monster with, I think, 10 wounds by getting through both melta shots. Afterwards, he was left with just Belakor and we basically talked through the rest of the game.

 

He was a great player and runs I youtube channel that I mean to check out. I'll post a link here if it is forum appropriate.

 

Things I learned, or had reinforced, from the event:

• Storm bolters are important, matter, and I love them
• GKs need their psychic phase
• Tide of Banishment is neat-o
• Destroy the Daemon is worth remembering, even when not playing against daemon armies. While it wouldn't have saved game 1, it would have netted me more points against his daemon engines.
• The basic Grey Knight is not to be underestimated. A lot of my damage was just from throwing out a high number of attacks and hoping for the best.
• There is nothing wrong with abandoning objectives for a turn or two if it wins you the game.

[Prot]

Thanks for the report. Sounds like you had a good time, and a good showing!

 

I am surprised about the CSM game though... I just didn't see that coming to be honest. Also while I'm glad you are enjoying your Bolters, I don't have the same success.. .maybe it's all the terrain we use? All I know is I play a lot of Bolters in my GK and had just the most horrific time against DG last game. Just horrid.

 

Anyway, thanks for the update. I love hearing these kinds of shortened reports with highlights. I've been running 2 MM dreads myself with GK and only 2 NDK's (one is a GM) in total. I actually think the Dreads get me a ton of mileage because everyone ignores them yet they do give me the best 'one shot' in the army at wacking a hard target.

[librisrouge]

Thanks for the report. Sounds like you had a good time, and a good showing!

It was a blast. 3 fun opponents and a great excuse to sling some dice.

 

I am surprised about the CSM game though... I just didn't see that coming to be honest. Also while I'm glad you are enjoying your Bolters, I don't have the same success.. .maybe it's all the terrain we use? All I know is I play a lot of Bolters in my GK and had just the most horrific time against DG last game. Just horrid.

CSM shooting is no joke. Obliterators, those not-dreadnoughts that can shoot mortal wounds, and volkite can tear things apart. This was also the battle that my bolters did the least in. I tore apart his cultists but they were never going to contribute much besides babysitting objectives anyway. His tougher things had saves that were too good and they killed me too fast. We had plenty of terrain on the table. Actually, on further retrospect, I wasn't using the terrain well enough and need to improve that more next time.

 

Anyway, thanks for the update. I love hearing these kinds of shortened reports with highlights. I've been running 2 MM dreads myself with GK and only 2 NDK's (one is a GM) in total. I actually think the Dreads get me a ton of mileage because everyone ignores them yet they do give me the best 'one shot' in the army at wacking a hard target.

I find that my dreads are occupying a similar role. I've had quite a few folks ask about my dread, because it feels like an odd duck in the list, but he too often gets ignored until he finds something juice to punch up to. He might be the next thing I get painted.

[librisrouge]

I haven't been painting much because work has kept me busy but got in a great game against Tau recently. I tried a very terminator heavy list, just to try it out, and found that it was very tough. It actually felt like I was playing with terminators for the first time in a while. I ran the Prescient Brotherhood but I'm not entirely sure that a terminator centric list benefits the most from that. I'm leaning toward the Blades of Victory.

 

Here is a list I'm strongly considering:

 

HQ-

Brother-Captain - Soul Glaive, Psycannon, Warlord (First to the Fray), and Empyric Amplification

Kaldor Draigo - Vortex of Doom, Warp Shaping, and Sanctuary

Troops-

Terminators x10 - Hammer x2, Stave, Psycannon x2, and Mixed Halberds and Swordsx7

Terminators x10 - Hammer x2, Stave, Psycannon x2, and Mixed Halberds and Swordsx7

Strike Squad x5 - Sword, Halberd x3, and Psycannon

Strike Squad x5 - Sword, Halberd x3, and Psycannon

Strike Squad x5 - Sword, Halberd x3, and Psycannon

Elite-

Paladins x5 - Hammers x5, Armored Resilience, and Etheral Castigation

Apothecary - Hammer, Cuirass of Sacrifice, and Shield of Humanity (Vanguard Aggression)

Apothecary - Sword

 

The army basically would have four parts.

Part 1 (Terminator Blob) - This is one terminator squad with the sword apothecary, Draigo, and the Brother Captain. They're slow but can stick together, take a hard hit, pick people back up, and the characters are no slouches if they make it to combat. They'll deploy forward and keep advancing.

Part 2 (Terminator Vanguard - This is the other terminator squad with the hammer apothecary. They'll get the extra 6" move before the game. The apothecary is a ridiculously tough nut to crack because of his 1+ armor save and good FnP. He can pick up terminators and makes them even tougher. In a few ways, they're a distraction carnifex but one that can take a big bit out of things. I'm also not afraid to let the squad abandon the apoth if they can try for a long charge (with psychic help) since he's tough enough to take significant hits.

Part 3 (Paladins) - Armored Resilience, as many have noted, makes for an amazingly tough target. However, etheral castigation makes them very fast. This means they'll leave any characters behind quickly. I don't intend for them to be the spearpoint. They'll go after side targets and important objectives. 

Part 4 (Strike Squads) - These guys have a simple goal; get on objectives, stay on objectives, and shoot stuff to contribute more. Basically, they're there so that the terminators can stick to the job of killing and advancing.

 

I need to do some minor converting and priming but I have this army right now and look forward to seeing what I can do with it on the tabletop.