Brother Chaplain Tyranus Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Hello fellow Sororitas players. I have been playing sisters now for probably just over a year (end of 8th and into this edition) and I am having a great time with them. I love how they look, I love how they play and I love the story. One thing however I do not love is my (possibly perceived) difficulty in altering up the core of the list to make it a little more fun and a less effective. Let me explain I play with a group of people (about 5 of us cycle out) of varying skill levels. Now I would say I am an average player but I do try. I research and try and learn but I don't ever look up the "winning" lists as I feel there is something to figuring things out on your own (dark souls mafia rise up). A couple of the guys I play with are very good players, and some are more interested in seeing the pretty colors on the table than learning their armies (but we love him anyway). So I have been tweaking this list and playing it with the better of the players, and it has gotten to the point where I have gotten pretty good with the list and I am hearing from the others about how much they don't want to play against it. So here is my dilemma. How do I make a different style of list, without it being terrible (don't need to win just want to feel like I'm in it)? I have noticed (at least in our play group) that there are some things that I just couldn't go without (Exorcists, Retributors, Celestian Sacresents, Morven Vahl) but by keeping a lot of these things in the list, I feel like I would just be playing the same style of list just with a different skin on it. Here is the list I've been playing ++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [38 PL, -3CP, 845pts] ++ + Configuration + Detachment Command Cost [-3CP] Order Convictions: Order: Bloody Rose + HQ + Morvenn Vahl [13 PL, 265pts]: Warlord + Elites + Celestian Sacresants [6 PL, 145pts]. 9x Celestian Sacresants (Hallowed Mace): 9x Bolt pistol, 9x Frag & Krak grenades, 9x Hallowed Mace. Sacresant Superior: Bolt pistol, Spear of the Faithful Celestian Sacresants [6 PL, 145pts]. 9x Celestian Sacresants (Hallowed Mace): 9x Bolt pistol, 9x Frag & Krak grenades, 9x Hallowed Mace. Sacresant Superior: Bolt pistol, Spear of the Faithful Hospitaller [3 PL, 50pts]: Relic: Book of St. Lucius + Fast Attack + Zephyrim Squad [4 PL, 90pts]. 4x Zephyrim: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Power sword. Zephyrim Superior: Bolt pistol, Zephyrim Pennant + Heavy Support + Retributor Squad [6 PL, 150pts]: 2x Armourium Cherub. Retributor Superior. . Bolt Pistol & Boltgun. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta ++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [59 PL, 10CP, 1,155pts] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost [-2CP] Order Convictions: Order: Argent Shroud + HQ + Celestine and Geminae Superia [10 PL, 200pts]. 2x Geminae Superia: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Power sword + Troops + Battle Sister Squad [3 PL, 55pts]. 4x Battle Sister: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades. Sister Superior. . Bolt Pistol & Boltgun + Elites + Paragon Warsuits [13 PL, 250pts]. Paragon: 2 Storm Bolters, Ministorum Heavy Flamer, Paragon War Blade. Paragon: 2 Storm Bolters, Ministorum Heavy Flamer, Paragon War Blade. Paragon Superior: 2 Storm Bolters, Multi-melta, Paragon War Blade + Heavy Support + Exorcist [9 PL, 185pts]: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Hunter-killer missile Exorcist [9 PL, 185pts]: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Hunter-killer missile + Dedicated Transport + Immolator [7 PL, 120pts]: Twin heavy bolter Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 80pts] Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 80pts] ++ Total: [97 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++ It's been working well for me and I enjoy it. I know there are way better lists out there and way more effective ways to play it but it's fun! So I want to try and make a different concept of list. I am trying to find a way to build a list around the Triumph of St Katherine. I figured maybe I could make a Miracle Dice heavy list and it may even be effective. One thing my good list lacks is obsec so I thought maybe doing something like that? Big sisters spam? Anyone have any ideas? Have you done anything that works? I'll post the Triumph list too. I think I may play it tomorrow though. thanks! ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [97 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost Order Convictions: Order: Ebon Chalice + HQ + Morvenn Vahl [13 PL, 265pts]: Warlord Triumph of Saint Katherine [11 PL, 220pts] + Troops + Battle Sister Squad [6 PL, 140pts]. 6x Battle Sister: 6x Bolt pistol, 6x Boltgun, 6x Frag & Krak grenades. Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Ministorum Flamer. Sister Superior. . Bolt Pistol & Boltgun Battle Sister Squad [6 PL, 140pts]. 6x Battle Sister: 6x Bolt pistol, 6x Boltgun, 6x Frag & Krak grenades. Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Ministorum Flamer. Sister Superior. . Bolt Pistol & Boltgun Battle Sister Squad [6 PL, 140pts]. 6x Battle Sister: 6x Bolt pistol, 6x Boltgun, 6x Frag & Krak grenades. Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Ministorum Flamer. Sister Superior. . Bolt Pistol & Boltgun + Elites + Dialogus [3 PL, 50pts]: 4. Litany of Enduring Faith Hospitaller [3 PL, 50pts]: Relic: Book of St. Lucius Paragon Warsuits [13 PL, 240pts]. Paragon: 2 Storm Bolters, Heavy bolter, Paragon War Blade. Paragon: 2 Storm Bolters, Heavy bolter, Paragon War Blade. Paragon Superior: 2 Storm Bolters, Heavy bolter, Paragon War Blade + Fast Attack + Dominion Squad [4 PL, 80pts]. Dominion Superior. . Bolt Pistol & Boltgun. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Artificer-crafted storm bolter. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Artificer-crafted storm bolter. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Artificer-crafted storm bolter. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Artificer-crafted storm bolter + Heavy Support + Exorcist [9 PL, 185pts]: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Hunter-killer missile Exorcist [9 PL, 180pts]: Exorcist Missile Launcher Retributor Squad [6 PL, 150pts]: 2x Armourium Cherub. Retributor Superior. . Bolt Pistol & Boltgun. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta + Dedicated Transport + Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 80pts] Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 80pts] ++ Total: [97 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominoris Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 I I have noticed (at least in our play group) that there are some things that I just couldn't go without (Exorcists, Retributors, Celestian Sacresents, Morven Vahl) but by keeping a lot of these things in the list, I feel like I would just be playing the same style of list just with a different skin on it. Pretty much that. You need to change up some of this core if you really want to change the list. Try starting off with some other units and then building the list around that. Repentia are fun. Dominions with Stormbolters are a nice change. Going more BSS orientated is also a totally different way to play. I don't know what models you have but you could also try going shooting heavy. Troops with heavy bolters and possibly Mortifiers as well. Honestly, with this list they should not be having too much trouble keeping up unlrss they are using older codexes. You can trade Sacresants for Repentia and Zephyrim for Seraphim but there is no real way of dumbing down the list unless you want to go with Morvenn Vahl all together. I would keep the vehicles and just remind your opponents to take "Bring It Down" as a secondary objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joukernaut Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 I've had the same "problem" as you have. What I did might be helpful to you. I sat down with my regular opponents and asked them what they found most abusive in my list that made them not want to play against it and what units they thought were fun to play against. I then looked at what I wanted to achieve with my list and combined this info to create something that worked beter der my opponents and still was fun for me, and repeated the process a couple of times. It made me realize what units were strong against their armies and what units were not. I think you can delete any of the units you say you cannot go without, but probably not all of them if your gaming group is very competitive. What you can delete probably depends on what you want to achieve with your list. What play style do you like? Xenith 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tychobi Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 Sisters is a really strong book with almost no bad units and if you don't want to give up the strongest stuff you are going to continue to dominate and upset others. Try new stuff by all means but do not demean your opponents by saying you are dumbing things down for them. Be the opponent you want to face. Challenge others to rise up and beat you at your best. Dread 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) How to change it up...Go Mech Sisters (everything is either a vehicle, jump pack or has a transport it can fit it)Go foot girls (Nothing with the vehcle keyword)Go bad girl... (max out repentia + mortificers)Go Army of faith (max out priests, DCA, Crusaders etc)Go fluff strong - bring a Witch hunter Inq ... and /or some imperial guard :p (count them as fratius militia :p)How to tweek a list so it plays differently..Change your warlordChange your Order (if your not playing a tournament dont worry about being painted OoML and playing BR) Change your elites selection so you have more /less acts of faithSwap the loadouts round... instead of having MMeltas in the Rets, give them H.Flamers & run the MMs in the Battle Squads.Go full trinaty - every unit must have the holy trinaty of Bolter, Flames & Melta Edited September 10, 2021 by Slasher956 WAR and RolandTHTG 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitnam Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 With the release of the Sisters novitiates, I've been thinking about what's heads to swap on them, and the presence of basic human weaponry like autoguns has intrigued me. This got me to thinking, what about a Order that has been cut off from a steady supply of Schola recruits, like one fighting in a blighted sector of the Imperium Nihilus. Instead this order takes to conscripting female gangers to fill the ranks of the Novitiates. You could combine the new Novitiates with Necromunda kits, especially Escher. Maybe even throw a ganger sister or two into the BSS squads, representing a recruit that passed the tests spiritually and physically. With the release of the Sisters novitiates, I've been thinking about what's heads to swap on them, and the presence of basic human weaponry like autoguns has intrigued me. This got me to thinking, what about a Order that has been cut off from a steady supply of Schola recruits, like one fighting in a blighted sector of the Imperium Nihilus. Instead this order takes to conscripting female gangers to fill the ranks of the Novitiates. You could combine the new Novitiates with Necromunda kits, especially Escher. Maybe even throw a ganger sister or two into the BSS squads, representing a recruit that passed the tests spiritually and physically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 I think I saw a bit of fluff about an Argent Shroud abbey being cut off in Nihlus and assumed lost only to be seen later on a battlefield. I can't remember where I read it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitnam Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Now that I properly read the thread I think OP was asking for in game army concepts not fluff themes, my mistake if that's the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chaplain Tyranus Posted September 21, 2021 Author Share Posted September 21, 2021 This is all great! I love the fluff as well as how the army plays on the table. Sisters is a really strong book with almost no bad units and if you don't want to give up the strongest stuff you are going to continue to dominate and upset others. Try new stuff by all means but do not demean your opponents by saying you are dumbing things down for them. Be the opponent you want to face. Challenge others to rise up and beat you at your best. Oh by no means do I have to dumb things down. I play with a bunch of good players it's just that only one of them has played enough games against my codex to know how to deal with them. I put together the Triumph of St Katherine and used it in a game. It was... a thing that I did. Super fun to have on the table and constantly have my opponent asking what it does in fear (little does he know it's little more than a buff bot veiled in a funeral procession) but it was fun to watch him squirm over that. He is also always having a problem with Sacresants (I bring 20 and put a hospitallier with them as well) so I took them out for this game. Without them he was able to just walk up to my back line. He didn't even stop at the toll booth! Heavy bolters ended up being really good too. I did throw in a retributor squad with heavy flamers and that was awesome too. Has anyone been able to do a decent shooting army without having to take Exorcists? The 24" range really throws a rock into that cog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 This is all great! I love the fluff as well as how the army plays on the table. Sisters is a really strong book with almost no bad units and if you don't want to give up the strongest stuff you are going to continue to dominate and upset others. Try new stuff by all means but do not demean your opponents by saying you are dumbing things down for them. Be the opponent you want to face. Challenge others to rise up and beat you at your best. Oh by no means do I have to dumb things down. I play with a bunch of good players it's just that only one of them has played enough games against my codex to know how to deal with them. I put together the Triumph of St Katherine and used it in a game. It was... a thing that I did. Super fun to have on the table and constantly have my opponent asking what it does in fear (little does he know it's little more than a buff bot veiled in a funeral procession) but it was fun to watch him squirm over that. He is also always having a problem with Sacresants (I bring 20 and put a hospitallier with them as well) so I took them out for this game. Without them he was able to just walk up to my back line. He didn't even stop at the toll booth! Heavy bolters ended up being really good too. I did throw in a retributor squad with heavy flamers and that was awesome too. Has anyone been able to do a decent shooting army without having to take Exorcists? The 24" range really throws a rock into that cog Exorcists are actually something of a drag on a competitive sisters list. They cost too much and are tend to be too swingy in their damage output. In my experience if you're playing on a standard tournament table setup with multiple pieces of LoS blocking terrain and plenty of cover it's rare to be shooting at targets past 30" anyway. I get huge mileage out of Argent Shroud sisters as a point blank shooting army using a mix of Retributors, Immolators, Dominions, Seraphim and MSU Sister squads toting a single multimelta. I do most of my ranged work inside of 12" for flamers and multimeltas and use heavy bolter Retributors as standoff units. RolandTHTG 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joukernaut Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 The exorcist is actually 48 inch range in the new codex. It makes it easier to park at the back and be able to pick good targets, but it also has gone down in toughness, making it a lot harder to keep it alive if your opponent decides to throw some real firepower at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 The exorcist is actually 48 inch range in the new codex. It makes it easier to park at the back and be able to pick good targets, but it also has gone down in toughness, making it a lot harder to keep it alive if your opponent decides to throw some real firepower at it. Exorcists have always (since 3rd Ed WH) been 48" .... trouble is that the exorcists is our only 48" range weapon... next longest range is 36" on heavy bolters, then we are (as Tyranus) was saying we are stuck on 24" range for multiple damage high AP wepaons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chaplain Tyranus Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 This is all great! I love the fluff as well as how the army plays on the table. Sisters is a really strong book with almost no bad units and if you don't want to give up the strongest stuff you are going to continue to dominate and upset others. Try new stuff by all means but do not demean your opponents by saying you are dumbing things down for them. Be the opponent you want to face. Challenge others to rise up and beat you at your best. Oh by no means do I have to dumb things down. I play with a bunch of good players it's just that only one of them has played enough games against my codex to know how to deal with them. I put together the Triumph of St Katherine and used it in a game. It was... a thing that I did. Super fun to have on the table and constantly have my opponent asking what it does in fear (little does he know it's little more than a buff bot veiled in a funeral procession) but it was fun to watch him squirm over that. He is also always having a problem with Sacresants (I bring 20 and put a hospitallier with them as well) so I took them out for this game. Without them he was able to just walk up to my back line. He didn't even stop at the toll booth! Heavy bolters ended up being really good too. I did throw in a retributor squad with heavy flamers and that was awesome too. Has anyone been able to do a decent shooting army without having to take Exorcists? The 24" range really throws a rock into that cog Exorcists are actually something of a drag on a competitive sisters list. They cost too much and are tend to be too swingy in their damage output. In my experience if you're playing on a standard tournament table setup with multiple pieces of LoS blocking terrain and plenty of cover it's rare to be shooting at targets past 30" anyway. I get huge mileage out of Argent Shroud sisters as a point blank shooting army using a mix of Retributors, Immolators, Dominions, Seraphim and MSU Sister squads toting a single multimelta. I do most of my ranged work inside of 12" for flamers and multimeltas and use heavy bolter Retributors as standoff units. As much as I want you to be wrong, I agree. On paper, exorcists look amazing and when they work, they really work but the same can be said about when they don't. And I have felt let down too many times when I need something to be reliable (although my multi melta retributors really let me down last game too. I have had to rework my lists and I am now playing a game tonight with 1 exorcist in it. I have had a lot of problems with board control (woohoo t3 sisters) so I am trying something different. I am taking out a little bit of killy to add more controley hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 If you're struggling with board control don't overlook the Dogmata as a utility pick. She can point at a non-obsec unit and give them obsec or double obsec on units that already have it. I haven't had great success with her but the value is there. I do understand wanting to take Exorcists, they are an iconic unit and GW did them dirty but I will take one occasionally just because of rule of cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montford Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 I have been trying various things and its been fun. Yesterday I took a Sacred Rose against Deathwatch, and I took Morvenn Vahl and a Canoness. I paid for the additional Warlord Trait so that the Canoness could have the Sacred Rose WL Trait and I gave her the Order's Relic Brazier and Righteous Judgement. -I sent a 9 model multi-melta Retributor squad with Vahl: Turn 1 between the full rerolls Vahl granted them and the Sacred Rose stratagem the four MMs pumped out 12 hits (needed 4s because they moved) and 10 successful Wound rolls without using a cherub: blew up a Deathwatch Forgeworld Land Raider even with its invuln saves. -The Canoness was putting out 3 to 4 mortal wounds each turn with the MD manipulation she could do and using the Brazier and Blessings. Not going to say that its a competitive build but it was certainly fun. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) It's a fine balance - between competitive and fun experience for your opponents. The more competitive guys should be trying to up their game instead of cramping yours, while you should be bringing sillier lists against the guy that like to throw dice. I played against sisters for the first time with my blood angels recently, and there's a lot of stuff that just like...feels bad, man. And you still have a lot of it in your second list. Namely, the weird ability for sisters and their characters to be way better in melee than Blood Angels, in a point for point basis. SM's pay a lot for protections, T4, wounds, etc, so sisters fighty models are a lot cheaper as they don't have this, but they don't care if you expect them to die anyway. In my game, a 70-100pt canoness killed a 150pt vanguard veteran squad on the charge by switching off their invulnerable saves, making them fight last, then slapping them with a high S D2 sword. The level of synergy in sisters is unreal. The Dominion squad you have with 4x storm bolters - I assume to use blessed bolts? They get to move maybe 15" by the end of turn 1 then drop ~6 mortals on a unit. Like, it's great, but cheesey to be on the receiving end. That said, it is what it is, and you have to use the codex without crippling yourself. Maybe after each game ask your opponent to pick one of your units to veto for the next game against them? Edited October 18, 2021 by Xenith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) Things I've done to make my sister's more fun to play against: Swap the multimelta Retributors for heavy bolter Retributors. Melta dominions instead of artificer storm bolters I bring a Castigator or Exorcist as they're over costed and fairly fragile. I try to bring a zany pick like a small squad of Arcos, a pair of crusaders, or a lone Penitent Engine and I tend to play them unpredictably. I've announced that I'm marching two crusaders across an entire battlefield to challenge a unit of grots. The ensuing fight was better than the entire 'real' portion of the game. I try to not spam any unit other than my troops. The meta preferred method of taking the max of only the best units is grinding to play against. Take the great unit, but take other units with them. The sisters dex is stellar and you can find a way to play well with almost anything you choose to bring. Edited October 18, 2021 by Bonzi Xenith 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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