What to expect from 9e CSM

[WrathOfTheLion]

That would not surprise me at all, if they're doing World Eaters, I guess to them it's part of the 'surprise'. I wouldn't be at all shocked if we were the last Codex update.

[Marshal Loss]

GW ideally like to have 2.5-3 months between the first teaser & a release, and we're shaping up to be a pretty involved release with a lot of kits. If we haven't heard anything (other than the Nachmund KT) by Adepticon in late March then it could be a while.

 

Will Emperor's Children still get Noise Marines as Troops? Just seeing the changes with the other Cult units and the expanded Legion Traits...

 

Yeah, for sure. Can't see why we wouldn't. They forgot to offer this for EC & WE when the 8th ed book came out and the outrage brought about an almost instant change.

[WrathOfTheLion]

GW ideally like to have 2.5-3 months between the first teaser & a release, and we're shaping up to be a pretty involved release with a lot of kits. If we haven't heard anything (other than the Nachmund KT) by Adepticon in late March then it could be a while.

They also don't back to back two armies like that usually. They're going to give just enough time for you to not want to skip Eldar. It was pretty much guaranteed that we weren't going to follow Eldar, as I'd mentioned a few times here. Even with Kill Team if it includes stuff for us, things like Kill Team: Chalnath predated the T'au codex by a couple of months, so they're not averse to releasing new stuff there and holding out on the rules for a bit.

[Warsmith sargos]

man all this wait really hurt the game
Im pretty sure I will remember 9th as the best and the worst Edition ever....
everything takes time, the rules team have the extra time to invest in the game... but they rarely do, we hailed them so much when they gave IMP/CHAOS Knights models to count as 5-10 models on objective..... something that almost took them 2 years.
CSM will always be my main army, I just want a good codex that give a fight, i dont want a broken one  

anyway back to topic! when are we gonna see the 2nd half of the kill team nachmund!!??
 

[Khornestar]

I was revisiting the discussion of the Forgefiend, but I thought it might be better to continue the discussion here due to the speculative comments at the end:

 

Something interesting I didn't realize until I looked at the Thousand Sons version of the Forgefiend:

 

1.) The jaws are actually a decent melee option. WS3+ S7 AP-1 D2 5 attacks. Better than a double-gun contemptor for sure, as far as close combat. Not that it's a perfect comparison, or that taking the plasma spit might not be a better choice, but I like this.

 

2.) The wargear has been updated to say HEAVY hades autocannon. What happened to the regular hades autocannon? Do any units in the TS codex use a hades autocannon?

 

Hmm, makes me wonder a bit why this change was made. I wonder if we'll be seeing the hades autocannon appear as a new piece of wargear.

 

 

*edit* Aww... I just saw the regular hades autocannon on the heldrake datasheet. Heavy just extends the range by 12”. A nice buff for a chunky walker I guess.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Khornestar

[Iron Inspirit]

Im with Khornestar, lets speculate positively instead of doomsaying. You can't open your eyes these days without seeing a complaint or negativity. 

Iron Warriors Chosen, based on the rumours.

M-6'
WS-3+
BS-3+
W3
LD-9
SV-3+

Now lets get into the supposed buffs here. I'll be adding -1 ap mark, and -1 to wound daemonic gift, now already that makes chosen pretty amazing, but lets get into it, and analyze as iron warriors do:

They ignore cover as iron warriors, this may even be reworded to ignore cover that gives -1 to hit, who knows?

-1/-2 ap is reduced by 1. Now this is just amazing and applies to almost every match up in the game. Extra spicy if it stacks with Dour Duty to reduce -3 ap to -1. Alone, this means most of the marine killing weapons that people usually take, will be significantly less effective at killing, especially if you are in cover. A heavy bolter will be wounding on 4's and you'll still be making a 2+ save in cover against it, Iron Without!

exploding 6's in turns 2'3. 

Lets give our squad 4 combibolters, and 2 reaper chaincannons, giving a 10 man 20 -1ap bolter shots in rapid fire range (24 average with 6's double hitting) and 16 reaper chaincannons at -2 ap. Thats a lot of pretty decent damage there, on a squad thats -1 to wound, and reduces most ap fired at them. 

They are also great in melee since they get accursed weapons and chainswords, which also double hit on 6's. 

Looking a hell of a lot better than the current, overcosted 1W chosen.
 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Iron Inspirit

[Clockworkchris]

Alright some big updates.

 

So my source corrected me on some things that i wrote here. Marks and daemonic gifts are one and the same. So this means marks need to be purchased and on top of providing a keyword it also provides you automatically with the daemonic gift.

 

So you want to make your chosen khorne. You pay some points and the chosen gain the keyword khorne & the +1s on the charge. This also means that the perks apply to all core and characters, including helbrutes.

 

Now for icons, here is a list of markable units who can have icons:

Legionaires

Chosen

Possessed

Bikers

Terminator

 

Here is a list of markable units that cannot get icons:

Raptors

Warptalons

Helbrute

Havocs

[Clockworkchris]

Also

 

Raptors (unit of 5-10)

Chainsword and pistol

Up to 2 special weapons

Up to 2 plasma pistols

Champ

Can take plasma pistol

Power sword or fist

 

Bikers (unit of 3-9)

Replace pistol for chainsword

Up to 2 special weapons

Up to 2 replace combi weapons with combi plas/melt/flam

Icon

Champ

Plasma pistol

1 weapon from Melee weapon

 

Warptalons (unit of 5-10)

 

Lucius gains 3 additional attacks and +1 damage if fighting a unit with a 3+ WS

 

Cypher can only be hit on a 4+

 

Harkon can make a raptor unit reroll hit and wound

 

Abbadon is incredibly killy

[Iron Inspirit]

Well, that does somewhat change things. Havocs getting -1 ap on chaincannons though, makes me happy I have 17 chaincannon units. 

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Alright some big updates.

 

So my source corrected me on some things that i wrote here. Marks and daemonic gifts are one and the same. So this means marks need to be purchased and on top of providing a keyword it also provides you automatically with the daemonic gift.

 

So you want to make your chosen khorne. You pay some points and the chosen gain the keyword khorne & the +1s on the charge. This also means that the perks apply to all core and characters, including helbrutes.

 

Now for icons, here is a list of markable units who can have icons:

Legionaires

Chosen

Possessed

Bikers

Terminator

 

Here is a list of markable units that cannot get icons:

Raptors

Warptalons

Helbrute

Havocs

 

Does this mean that oblits are not core?

 

Nice to see that helbrutes can benefit from the nurgle gift of -1 to wound.  

[Iron Inspirit]

 

Alright some big updates.

 

So my source corrected me on some things that i wrote here. Marks and daemonic gifts are one and the same. So this means marks need to be purchased and on top of providing a keyword it also provides you automatically with the daemonic gift.

 

So you want to make your chosen khorne. You pay some points and the chosen gain the keyword khorne & the +1s on the charge. This also means that the perks apply to all core and characters, including helbrutes.

 

Now for icons, here is a list of markable units who can have icons:

Legionaires

Chosen

Possessed

Bikers

Terminator

 

Here is a list of markable units that cannot get icons:

Raptors

Warptalons

Helbrute

Havocs

 

Does this mean that oblits are not core?

 

Nice to see that helbrutes can benefit from the nurgle gift of -1 to wound.  

 

Where did he say that? Oblits just arnt able to be marked or have an icon. 

[MasterDeath]

He states "this applies to all characters and core" and then lists markable and iconable Units. Obliterators are not in that list. Not sure why one assumes they would be core though. They are cult. Edited February 16, 2022 by MasterDeath

[Khornestar]

Oooh I am loving the sound of bikers. It is a little odd, the way 2 can take special weapons and 2 can take different combi weapons but potentially that's 4 meltas/whatever in a unit of 5.

 

Things I’d still like to know:

 

Which data sheets have access to thunder hammers? Right now all we can say for sure is warpsmith and chaos lord on foot.

 

Will chaos lords and sorcerers keep their ability to take jump packs?

Edited February 16, 2022 by Khornestar

[Clockworkchris]

Oooh I am loving the sound of bikers. It is a little odd, the way 2 can take special weapons and 2 can take different combi weapons but potentially that's 4 meltas/whatever in a unit of 5.

 

Things I’d still like to know:

 

Which data sheets have access to thunder hammers? Right now all we can say for sure is warpsmith and chaos lord on foot.

 

Will chaos lords and sorcerers keep their ability to take jump packs?

Chaos lords and warpsmith for hammers.

[Iron Inspirit]

Can we get a full list updated Clockworkchris? This thread has gotten long and its hard to find all the info

[Agrest_IW]

Alright some big updates.

 

So my source corrected me on some things that i wrote here. Marks and daemonic gifts are one and the same. So this means marks need to be purchased and on top of providing a keyword it also provides you automatically with the daemonic gift.

 

So you want to make your chosen khorne. You pay some points and the chosen gain the keyword khorne & the +1s on the charge. This also means that the perks apply to all core and characters, including helbrutes.

 

Now for icons, here is a list of markable units who can have icons:

Legionaires

Chosen

Possessed

Bikers

Terminator

 

Here is a list of markable units that cannot get icons:

Raptors

Warptalons

Helbrute

Havocs

 ... but Terminator sprue dont have Icon , so GW outplayed himself or this leaks are just pure fantasy

Edited February 16, 2022 by Agrest_IW

[Marshal Loss]

Well "Abaddon is incredibly killy" isn't exactly an earthshaking revelation given that he's been one of the killiest characters in the game since his inception back in 2nd. Terminators having access to icons when the kit doesn't come with any also sounds a little strange in a book that seems to lean heavily into WYSIWYG; why would they keep icons when their kit comes with none if e.g. Raptors, whose kit also comes with no icons, lose access? Could be for balance reasons, but it's bizarrely inconsistent.

 

Lucius going beastmode when fighting worthy opponents, though, would be super cool. Would be nice if he wasn't a joke. Now he just needs a new model...

 

 

anyway back to topic! when are we gonna see the 2nd half of the kill team nachmund!!??

 

I don't think it will be long - it'll come before our book.

 

Can we get a full list updated Clockworkchris? This thread has gotten long and its hard to find all the info

The OP is regularly updated.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

 

Alright some big updates.

 

So my source corrected me on some things that i wrote here. Marks and daemonic gifts are one and the same. So this means marks need to be purchased and on top of providing a keyword it also provides you automatically with the daemonic gift.

 

So you want to make your chosen khorne. You pay some points and the chosen gain the keyword khorne & the +1s on the charge. This also means that the perks apply to all core and characters, including helbrutes.

 

Now for icons, here is a list of markable units who can have icons:

Legionaires

Chosen

Possessed

Bikers

Terminator

 

Here is a list of markable units that cannot get icons:

Raptors

Warptalons

Helbrute

Havocs

 

Does this mean that oblits are not core?

 

Nice to see that helbrutes can benefit from the nurgle gift of -1 to wound.  

 

Where did he say that? Oblits just arnt able to be marked or have an icon. 

 

He didn't. Ergo, why I asked.  

[Iron Inspirit]

Well "Abaddon is incredibly killy" isn't exactly an earthshaking revelation given that he's been one of the killiest characters in the game since his inception back in 2nd. Terminators having access to icons when the kit doesn't come with any also sounds a little strange in a book that seems to lean heavily into WYSIWYG; why would they keep icons when their kit comes with none if e.g. Raptors, whose kit also comes with no icons, lose access? Could be for balance reasons, but it's bizarrely inconsistent.

 

Lucius going beastmode when fighting worthy opponents, though, would be super cool. Would be nice if he wasn't a joke. Now he just needs a new model...

 

 

anyway back to topic! when are we gonna see the 2nd half of the kill team nachmund!!??

 

I don't think it will be long - it'll come before our book.

 

Can we get a full list updated Clockworkchris? This thread has gotten long and its hard to find all the info

The OP is regularly updated.

Oh I didnt notice the little spoiler tag

[Kaiju Soze]

Also

 

Raptors (unit of 5-10)

Chainsword and pistol

Up to 2 special weapons

Up to 2 plasma pistols

Champ

Can take plasma pistol

Power sword or fist

 

So would the 2 plasma include the Champion, or not?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Ordinarily not.

[MegaVolt87]

So, bikes and raptors can still special stack as MSU without restrictions? 

[Toldavf]

On reflection it seems like we are going to have allot of damage 1 in melee. I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand no wasted damage from -1 damage abilities on the other it means the number of attacks we need to bring something down will be increased. 

Traits and stratagems are all well and good, but so far it seems that only deamon engines bring anything more than damage 1 and in an edition where such things can die real fast where will that leave chaos? 

[Khornestar]

I know not every list calls for 30 berzerkers, but that's what I run when I play World Eaters. Double lightning claw champions. They typically do a ton of damage via single damage wounds getting through to whatever they're fighting. Veterans of the Long War and World Eaters strats to help those get through the tougher stuff.

 

With Word Bearers, I do feel that lack of damage, and exactly like you say rely on daemon engines, as well as a contemptor and leviathan. Forge World is still a bit of a rarity despite recasts and 3D printing but especially if HH 2.0 gets plastic versions of both, they will become super common.

[Toldavf]

I know not every list calls for 30 berzerkers, but that's what I run when I play World Eaters. Double lightning claw champions. They typically do a ton of damage via single damage wounds getting through to whatever they're fighting. Veterans of the Long War and World Eaters strats to help those get through the tougher stuff.

 

With Word Bearers, I do feel that lack of damage, and exactly like you say rely on daemon engines, as well as a contemptor and leviathan. Forge World is still a bit of a rarity despite recasts and 3D printing but especially if HH 2.0 gets plastic versions of both, they will become super common.

Its starting to look like chosen, terminators and possesed will all be doing around 4 strength 5 attacks with a bit of a save mod. The only thing that changes is the unit resilience.

 

This is honestly pretty poor writing if its the case. 

 

Warp talons are in a slightly different boat but not by much.