What to expect from 9e CSM

[WrathOfTheLion]

I'd've loved a lot of the BSF stuff to get rereleased and put in the Codex proper, things like rogue psykers and all.

[Plaguecaster]

I never really liked non power armored mortals in csm as leads to armies just spamming them instead of actual power armored troops but new models are always nice

Especially happy with new possessed models as getting my death shroud screwed over by the CA I may look into running more possessed and new models that hopefully should be easily mixed with plague marine bits will be great

Edited January 23, 2022 by Plaguecaster

[Dhar'Neth]

Can I ask about havocs? Do they get 3w? Do they change significantly?and most importantly Can they still take 4x same weapon or are they locked to box content?

[Clockworkchris]

Can I ask about havocs? Do they get 3w? Do they change significantly?and most importantly Can they still take 4x same weapon or are they locked to box content?

Exactly the same as now but 2w.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

 

 

Another leak for you fine folks, to celebrate the website being back up.

 

Extra units chaos is getting:

Hq squad of cultists

Mutant cultists (clockworkchris's opinion:these will be like tzaangors and poxwalkers)

These are the new units.

so in line with the already rumoured releases.

Were new posses in the sope of the rumors? I really thing the current box is too goofy. I just recently got me some FW Gal Vorbak because of that.

 

Are there any rumors if marks are going to do something more them just keywords?

No models is not the same as new units. The cultist units are the only new units. Old units are def getting new models.

 

Will chaos marines have a "brood brothers" type rule giving access to guard units/vehicles in a limited capacity?  That seems like it would be a terrific way to bring traitor guard style lists to life.  

[Khornestar]

Another leak for you fine folks, to celebrate the website being back up.

 

Extra units chaos is getting:

Hq squad of cultists

Mutant cultists (clockworkchris's opinion:these will be like tzaangors and poxwalkers)

These are the new units.

 

Sounds very cool. I like the diversity of the forces of chaos in the background and also taking advantage of more ways to play the army and use more of my models. 

 

I hope they're fairly customizable units, with some sort of specialization for each of the gods/unaligned.

[Cheex]

 

Can I ask about havocs? Do they get 3w? Do they change significantly?and most importantly Can they still take 4x same weapon or are they locked to box content?

Exactly the same as now but 2w.

 

 

That's a relief if true.

 

Now the elephant in the room: what about Terminators? Specifically, do they have the same weapon loadout as now, or are they locked to what comes in the kit?

[Vesalius]

So I wonder if this means the renegade guard from the rumor are out? Also if the possessed humans are just the mutant cultists

[Tokugawa]

 

 

Speculation: Berserkers always count as in being "assault doctrine".

I think the wulfen rules would be perfect for zerkers... even just a cut/paste job. Seems perfect. Great volume of attacks, fast, automatic fight on death bypasses all the fight last nonsense.

You can't copy and paste the storm shield.

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

Speculation: Berserkers always count as in being "assault doctrine".

I think the wulfen rules would be perfect for zerkers... even just a cut/paste job. Seems perfect. Great volume of attacks, fast, automatic fight on death bypasses all the fight last nonsense.

You can't copy and paste the storm shield.

 

 

Demonic blessing X points, just did. Don't even need to dev a bit on the sprue.  

 

Also are there any new weapons for existing infantry? New havocs gave us the chain cannon for instance. 

[Clockworkchris]

Ok so here is a bunch of info I managed to come by from secure sources:

 

CSM doctrine:

• exact same thing as SM, except replace +1AP with exploding 6s (unmodified hits)

 

Icons:

• vengeance +1 CA
• wrath +1ap melee
• flame +1ap shooting
• excess +1 to hit melee
• despair 6s to hit = autowound

 

• All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems

 

Legion traits:

 

NL

• -2LD & -1CA @ 9''
• +1 to advance & +1 to charges
• When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound

 

IW

• Ignores cover
• Reduce ap1/2 by 1
• Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound

 

WB

• Charges/HI = reroll hits
• 5+++ vs MW
• When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit)

 

BL

• ignore CA
• +1  to hit when charge or shoot closest unit
• rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit)

 

EC (4chain leak, not from my sources)

• in the book
• have a way of consistently hitting on 2s (even with thunder hammers)

WE

• Not in the codex

 

Datasheet info:

Chosen

• 3w
• can use TH

 

Mutilators

• no longer in the book

 

Warp talon

• 2w
• lost cancel overwatch
• gained no fallback
• 5a (these are total with claws)

 

Raptors

• still have the -1LD aura
• +2a

 

Obliterators

• can shoot units that are in engagement range with them (like wraithguard)
• in melee they have powerfists without the -1 to hit
• 3 different shooting profiles

 

Havocs

• exactly the same as right now but 2w

 

Stratagems

 

• something to ignore invuls (4chan leak, so take with a grain of salt, leak said EC chosen could destory custodes hitting with TH on a 2+ and with strat ignore invul saves)
• NL deepstrike strat for jump packs, DS turn 1
• NL vox scream disables AURAS

 

Other:

 

• IW ectoplasma forgefiend can hit on 2+ and does flat 4 damage 
• New cultist unit HQ
• New mutant culstists

[Tokugawa]

There are some 40mm rank-and-file infantry models have 2W. Are there 32mm models have 3W before?

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

Ok so here is a bunch of info I managed to come by from secure sources:

 

CSM doctrine:

• exact same thing as SM, except replace +1AP with exploding 6s (unmodified hits)

 

Icons:

• vengeance +1 CA
• wrath +1ap melee
• flame +1ap shooting
• excess +1 to hit melee
• despair 6s to hit = autowound

 

• All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems

 

Legion traits:

 

NL

• -2LD & -1CA @ 9''
• +1 to advance & +1 to charges
• When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound

 

IW

• Ignores cover
• Reduce ap1/2 by 1
• Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound

 

WB

• Charges/HI = reroll hits
• 5+++ vs MW
• When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit)

 

BL

• ignore CA
• +1  to hit when charge or shoot closest unit
• rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit)

 

EC (4chain leak, not from my sources)

• in the book
• have a way of consistently hitting on 2s (even with thunder hammers)

WE

• Not in the codex

 

Datasheet info:

Chosen

• 3w
• can use TH

 

Mutilators

• no longer in the book

 

Warp talon

• 2w
• lost cancel overwatch
• gained no fallback
• 5a (these are total with claws)

 

Raptors

• still have the -1LD aura
• +2a

 

Obliterators

• can shoot units that are in engagement range with them (like wraithguard)
• in melee they have powerfists without the -1 to hit
• 3 different shooting profiles

 

Havocs

• exactly the same as right now but 2w

 

Stratagems

 

• something to ignore invuls (4chan leak, so take with a grain of salt, leak said EC chosen could destory custodes hitting with TH on a 2+ and with strat ignore invul saves)
• NL deepstrike strat for jump packs, DS turn 1
• NL vox scream disables AURAS

 

Other:

 

• IW ectoplasma forgefiend can hit on 2+ and does flat 4 damage 
• New cultist unit HQ
• New mutant culstists

 

Quick question... how is this new codex going to handle cult troops?  Would BL or WB still be able to field rubrics/plague marines?  If so, do they have the same datasheet as in the DG/TS codicies just without those army's special sauce?

[Marshal Loss]

Thanks for typing that up for us, Clockworkchris. Could you share the 4chan leak as well/send it to me so I can compile relevant rumours in the OP?

 

Some thoughts, obviously on the assumption the above is accurate:

• I had expected there to be a legion supplement/campaign supplement that we'd have to buy if we wanted the full suite of rules, so if all these traits/relics/strats are in the actual codex and I can play my legion with a single book, I'll be extremely pleased. Kudos to GW if so.
• Very surprised to see Word Bearers without a morale aspect to their trait. What's written above sounds great though, obviously a tremendous improvement on what we've currently got (not that that's an achievement )
• Good variability between legions. I hope renegades also receive some love.
• Obliterators having different shooting profiles to choose from rather than having to roll for it would be fantastic. I've missed being able to choose between different guns to suit different targets.
• Condolences to anybody that ever used Mutilators

Hopefully we get to see some models later this week at the LVO preview.

[SmiteThemAll]

Sorry for my newbness but what is CA? As in black legion ignore CA? Night Lords - 1CA?

Can't wait for this codex, love modelling my chaos so much but I've totally lost interest with the correct codex being so lame.

[Marshal Loss]

Also, it just occurred to me that the interaction with the Black Legion trait/Icon of Vengeance is a little odd.

 

Sorry for my newbness but what is CA? As in black legion ignore CA? Night Lords - 1CA?

Combat Attrition - it's the test you take if you fail a Morale test to see how many models run away/die.

[Kaiju Soze]

Also, it just occurred to me that the interaction with the Black Legion trait/Icon of Vengeance is a little odd.

 

Yeah, it'd be weird to see BL armies with no icons of vengeance.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Oh man, these chnages are fantastic. 6 WLT, 8 Relics and 8 Strats per legion nearly made me shoot water out of my nose. Are these for sure in the Codex? Or are they likely to be stripped out and put into a Campaign supplement?

 

 

Was there any news on Alpha Legion and the Renegades?

 

On another note, I'm glad I held off making some Mutilators from Centurions, more Oblits for me!

[BadgersinHills]

Thanks Marshal Loss for compiling the rumours and thanks ClockworkChris for the information! 

[ApulianAbaddon]

God, if these are confirmed I am crying for one year.

Particularly happy for my Black Legion, will eventually add more and more Marines

[Khornestar]

I’ve been building up my WB to prepare for the coming codex, and if those rules are accurate I’m super hyped! They’re fun to play with the current awful rule, so we’ll see if they get to keep their killer strats.

 

I wonder what possessed will be like. Maybe just identical to DG?

[Plague _Lord]

Please tell me possessed also get 3 wounds...

 

I need more info if it's just cultist or actual traitor guard.

 

Unfortunately these new traits sound like they wont effect daemon engines... 

[Khornestar]

Hmm looking at the DG possessed I don’t think a direct port will work, and they “should” get an extra wound.

 

Was thinking about the cultist hq and I bet they’ll have a restriction like must have a heretic astartes for each cultist hq. Something like that?

 

.

 

Unfortunately these new traits sound like they wont effect daemon engines...

What about the stuff above makes you say that? Like just not useful or can’t use at all? Edited January 24, 2022 by Khornestar

[WrathOfTheLion]

I was hoping mutilators would be updated, but the current models have never once tempted me, so I'm not so sad that they're gone.

[Plague _Lord]

Hmm looking at the DG possessed I don’t think a direct port will work, and they “should” get an extra wound.

 

Was thinking about the cultist hq and I bet they’ll have a restriction like must have a heretic astartes for each cultist hq. Something like that?

 

.

 

Unfortunately these new traits sound like they wont effect daemon engines...

What about the stuff above makes you say that? Like just not useful or can’t use at all?

 

 

I mean DG possessed are rated as near-trash tier competitively, they only saw play in Terminus Est lists, which just got killed by the latest CA. I think with 3 wounds a piece they would be a decent pick and would love to love a unit of them.

 

As for the traits I think it would make daemon engines very strony and maybe too strong? I could for instance see them getting only one of the traits, for example Iron Warriors - Reduce ap 1/2 by 1, while the bonus to wound would count for heretic astartes. I just can't shake the notion that a lot of folks over at James still think CSM need to be punished for the 3,5 codex... But I would love to be wrong mind you... I could also see them giving out a balance sheet at time of release that would upgrade DG vechicles aswell...