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What to expect from 9e CSM


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109 replies to this topic

#76
Juggernut

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It’s a reasonable expectation, I think, to lose options. Maybe more likely than not? Unless they come out with a chaos weapons upgrade kit, but that seems unlikely.

Edited by Juggernut, 12 October 2021 - 10:31 AM.

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#77
Putrid Choir

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I will say the Blightlord terminator box only has 3 swords and 3 Axes but they didn't limit that to only 3/5. So chain axe as the base with combi bolter I would expect to be allowed on every model. It's the special combi weapons and other weapons that might get silly restrictions.
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#78
BrainFireBob

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That's the stupid part- they restricted guns but not CCWs. So it's not even being limited to the kit- it's 50% limited to the kit
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#79
Putrid Choir

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That's the stupid part- they restricted guns but not CCWs. So it's not even being limited to the kit- it's 50% limited to the kit


Shhhhh! If GW finds out they will make it worse haha.

#80
MegaVolt87

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It’s a reasonable expectation, I think, to lose options. Maybe more likely than not? Unless they come out with a chaos weapons upgrade kit, but that seems unlikely.

 

I don't see why though, it can force you to buy the HH tartaros or cata's instead for CSM since there is no difference in the armour rules anymore. Those two kits cost more than the CSM termi kit and look way better IMO. CSM isn't the budget faction for collecting IMO and thats a good thing. 


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#81
Juggernut

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I don’t think they’d mind selling those extra kits, but wouldn’t intentionally write rules to take separate kits into account. Just doesn’t seem to be their M.O..

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#82
MegaVolt87

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I still don't like the implications, that would leave SW WG termi's untouched because they are very similar versatility wise to ours at the moment. Honestly, better for the game to have nids, eldar, tau out before more MEQ.
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#83
Juggernut

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Yeah even if we have a codex for a month before 10th it would be nice to not just get copied and pasted over from a prior edition (or within the same edition) again.

Edited by Juggernut, 17 October 2021 - 09:25 PM.

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#84
MegaVolt87

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On the bright side, AL and WB will have probably the most thematic armies with mortals in the CSM dex. Still seems a bit of a waste to not have lost and the dammed in a separate faction codex. 


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#85
Marshal Loss

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Loadouts are a tricky beast. I've definitely held off building a lot of kits I have piled up because I'm worried about what will happen in our book.

 

On the bright side, AL and WB will have probably the most thematic armies with mortals in the CSM dex. Still seems a bit of a waste to not have lost and the dammed in a separate faction codex. 

If the rumoured releases pan out, it's definitely looking like a dream come true for my Word Bearers. wub.gif

 

Re: LATD, it's always possible that this is just "laying the groundwork" and they plan to break them out into the own army eventually, but I will say that I was surprised to see so many non-marine releases in the 2022 CSM wave. Not a bad thing, mind, just surprised.


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#86
Excessus

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We'll see how it pans out. I'm using this time before our codex drops to build and paint all my piles of shame. :)
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#87
Iron Father Ferrum

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Same here!  I even decided to revive my long-dormant painting thread.  Just need to get it moved into the AL subforum...


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#88
Shovellovin

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Can we reasonably hope that Haarken Worldclaimer will be given decent rules in the 9e codex? Shame to have such a cool model have such lackluster rules. 


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#89
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He won't be in the codex, you'll have to wait for the Black Legion supplement.

 

 

 

 

 

...I'm kidding, I have no insider knowledge of the Chaos release plan.  But if any Traitor Legion gets its own stand-alone supplement (assuming WE & EC are getting stand-alone codices), it'd probably be the Black Legion.


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#90
Putrid Choir

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Haarken needs some love. Lucius too, he is the only chaos lord I know that doesn't even get 4++ haha. Hopefully the book corrects alot of the shortfalls.

#91
Squike

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so this might be slightly off topic but it relates to the current state of CSM/Chaos, and rather than expect a coherent answer from GW via and FAQ question, I thought here would be a better place.

 

so considering DG/TS & CSM all share the "Chaos" keyword, in a Battle Forged army I could have a Patrol Detachment of each. Now I know the rule of 3 exists for units with the same datasheet, but how does that work when units have the same names but different datasheets, e.g. Helbrutes, Maulerfiends, Forgefiends, Heldrakes.

 

Could I run 2 Helbrutes in the CSM detachment and 2 in the DG detachment, they have the same name, but the rules and stats are different?

could I run 2 Helldrakes in the CSM detachment and 2 in the TS detachment, again they have the same name but completely different stats and rules.

the same goes for the Mauler and Forgefiends...

 

the same could be said for all the unit changes that have happened to the other TS/DG units but not CSM, (plague marines, Rubrics, Defilers , Possessed etc.)

 

as well as having more than 3 of a unit on the field those units will also react completely different on the tabletop...  

 

have i got this completely wrong and this isn't possible or its entirely possible and just a big of a mess as it appears. 



#92
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I could have sworn they specifically mentioned the DG, TS and main chaos marine book's Daemon Princes share the rule of 3 as far as datasheets are concerned. I just got to remember where I saw it and I'll let you know. So my guess is no.

#93
Squike

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ah yes, interestingly I just looked at the datasheets for them, and unless there is a mistake on the Russian datasheet website, the DG and TS princes have different attack stats and invun saves as well as movement stats with wings, on top of their cult specific rules being different. So at what point do we think GW would regard them as different units from a rule of 3 standpoint? because even in the prince's case the names are actually specifically different. which then goes towards with predators being split into two datasheets, (Annihilator and Destructor) what's the point of splitting the sheet if you cant take 3 of each? because their stats are even further aligned than the Daemon Prince's are as its just the main weapon option that is different...


Edited by Squike, 26 October 2021 - 11:35 AM.


#94
Putrid Choir

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April 2019 update had this:

"WARHAMMER 40,000 RULEBOOK Official Update Version 1.5 wrote:
ORGANISED EVENTS
The updated Organised Events guidelines table restricts the number of times a particular datasheet can be included in your army. A few common questions have arisen from this:

Q3) Are the Daemon Prince datasheet from Codex: Chaos Space Marines, the Daemon Prince of Chaos datasheet from Codex: Chaos Daemons, the Daemon Prince of Nurgle datasheet from Codex: Death Guard, and the Daemon Prince of Tzeentch datasheet from Codex: Thousand Sons all considered different datasheets for the purposes of the Organised Events guidelines? A3) No. For the purposes of these guidelines all these datasheets are all considered to be the same."

That's where I saw it.

Edited by Putrid Choir, 26 October 2021 - 12:08 PM.

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#95
Squike

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so again, where do they draw the line, is it with items of the same name or items with similar profiles? because the Daemon Prince's now all have technically different names, and different stat lines. it seems like chaos are punished for GW's screwups when it comes to keeping chaos datasheets consistent for common units. or are Daemon Princes now just the exception to the rule. Is a Datasheet defined by its name or its basic unit stats?



#96
Putrid Choir

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That's a good question. I just remember Daemon Princes were one of the units being abused that made GW want to push for the rule of 3 for TO's to begin with. I think they are the exception. Death guard possessed have a different name and statline as well to their counterpart. I would think you could do 3 and 3 of those. But I'm just some dude on the internet haha.

Edited by Putrid Choir, 26 October 2021 - 01:13 PM.


#97
MegaVolt87

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I imagine if the keywords aren't a 1-1 match, they would be considered different. That's how I interpreted that anyway.
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#98
Squike

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so most of the examples above have different keywords, not including faction keywords, even the Daemon Princes mentioned have different non faction keywords. they only ones that are the same are the forgefiend and maulerfiend between CSM and TS and the Defiler between DG and TS.



#99
Closet Skeleton

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Daemon Princes have always had different datasheets between books and yet counted as one unit. Brood Brother Heavy Weapon Teams and Guard ones have completely different keywords and count as the same unit (the stats are different too but only because one has a trait built in). The FAQ is pretty clear and is a specific arbitrary exception to normal rules, there's no way to 'logic' around it.

 

The way rule of three works is by name, but brood brothers and Daemon Princes are exceptions. Anything other than the name at the top of the datasheet is irrelevant. The DAEMON PRINCE keyword doesn't matter, you can have Syll'Eske, Be'lakor and 3 unnamed Daemon Princes.

 

Expect to see Daemon Princes even harder to spam as DG ones are limited to one per detachment.


Edited by Closet Skeleton, 29 October 2021 - 12:21 PM.


#100
WickedJester1013

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Is that faq still valid? That was from 8th edition of I recall




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