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Leman Russ, the tank


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12 replies to this topic

#1
Ulfast

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Hello fellow cult members.

 

Last couple of days I have been thinking if I should add one or two leman russes to my cult. I seldom use any of my heavy choices and my opponents know about that. I like the rockgrinder but most times I use goliath instead. But my question is what do you think about the leman russ and what weapon to chose?

 

I have one Leman Russ that has 3 heavy bolters and one battlecannon. But I actuallt dont think it does specially much. A couple of wounds from the heavy bolters perhaps but the battlecannon usually dont do much damage( to swingy with 2d6 shoots). My new idea is to buy a new one and use the exterminator autcannon (sure of 8 shoots every turn) together with two multi-meltas(4 shoots). That make it anti-tank and good against muti wound infantery. Plan is to use it similiar to a distraction as my heavy mining laser ridgerunner will do the actually work. What do you think about that? Worth it or waste of points (and money)



#2
Closet Skeleton

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You're better off with an allied Tank Commander demolisher.

 

Allied Hydras are cheaper than Leman Russ Exterminators but only T7.


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#3
Wulf Vengis

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@Skeleton: You shush.

The Leman Russ is one of the most fun models to build/print. Get a few magnets and go ham.
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#4
Ulfast

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I was afraid that better option is from some of our brood brothers in IG or tyranids. But I agree, super intersting model and perhaps I will buy one just to build and have fun with :)



#5
Rogue

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Skeleton is right, in that using the Guard to access a tank commander Russ is the most effective way to run an individual tank (because BS 3+, rerolling 1s makes a world of difference). But that comes at the cost of CPs for the allied detachment, and other units to fill out that detachment.

My current preference is to run a Cult Russ with a turret and three heavy flamers - they completely bypass the BS 4+ problem, and whilst it gives the tank a fairly short effective range, it also makes it nasty to charge, so pushing forward is less of an issue.

I like the battle cannon, but can see the logic of using the autocannon instead. Also, track-guards are great - keeping your move at 10" all game makes it much easier to keep the turret double-tapping.

And as a leftfield thought, what about using Tyranid allies rather than Guard? It still has the CP and tax unit issues, but some of the big weapon-beasts are very shooty, and one of the Tyranid hivefleets makes them even better.

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Painted this year: jackal alphus, kellermorph, hypermorph, three jackals, five acolytes, ten neophytes; gravis captain

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#6
Closet Skeleton

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Problem with the Autocannon is that it costs points and is only S7.

 

And as a leftfield thought, what about using Tyranid allies rather than Guard? It still has the CP and tax unit issues, but some of the big weapon-beasts are very shooty, and one of the Tyranid hivefleets makes them even better.

No, Tyranids do not have 'some' very shooty big monsters. They have the Exocrine which is only okay as S7 holds it back a little. Everything else is worse than a heavy mining laser Ridgerunner for firepower output.

 

 

I was afraid that better option is from some of our brood brothers in IG or tyranids. But I agree, super intersting model and perhaps I will buy one just to build and have fun with smile.png

 

The Tank Commander is the exact same model and should still be painted with Cult details as all Brood bros are Brood bros no matter what Codex they come from.


Edited by Closet Skeleton, 24 August 2021 - 06:36 PM.


#7
Rogue

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Tyranofex with a rupture cannon? And the exocrine benefits from the main gun being heavy 6 rather than heavy d6 like the Russ. But I'm not a tyranid player, so I'm just repeating something I heard and looking at stats.

And yes, any Russ can be a commander (I have one with a swappable driver sticking out of the turret that normally gets the job), and they can switch back and forth between being Cult-specific and allied Guard, which is a flexibility bonus.

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#8
Closet Skeleton

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Tyranofex with a rupture cannon? And the exocrine benefits from the main gun being heavy 6 rather than heavy d6 like the Russ. But I'm not a tyranid player, so I'm just repeating something I heard and looking at stats.

 

In a Astra Milatarum detachment you an pay 2cp to make the Russ flat 6 shots vs a single vehicle.

I've never seen anyone use a Rupture cannon Tyranofex in person, only the Acid Spray version and I killed one easily before it did anything and the other one didn't do much either. Winters SEO used a rupture cannon in a few youtube battle reports and it achieves little.

 

Rupture cannon is just a double range demolisher cannon with 3 shots rather than d6. But the demolisher can move 5" and shoot twice while the Tyranofex has a 6" move and has to stay completely still to fire twice. Tank Commander demolisher is also only 5 points more before he buys sponsons. Tyranofex can pay 2cp for +1 damage while the Tank Commander can pay 2cp for flat 6/12 shots.

 

For only 35 points more than a single Tyranofex you can get 3 mining laser ridge runners who can get +1 to hit from your Jackal Alpha and all your other Genestealer Cult synergies (excepting Creeds but Hive Fleets don't help Tyranofexes much).

 

Exorcines have a stratagem to count as stand still and get +1 to hit, Tyranofex do not. Exocrines are also 20 points cheaper unless you want your Tyranofex stuck with Fleshborers (where he's a Leman Russ Punisher but rubbish instead of a demolisher but bad).

 

I own two Tyranofex and a Leman Russ Exterminator* and I've never used them due to not having any opportunities for friendly games. If the Sisters of Battle Castigator is anything to go by Exterminators are going to be swingy once they get updated.

 

*in my guard army. My Cult Russes are a Vanquisher and a Eradicator I haven't used since 7th ed where at least you got a formation to encouraged them


Edited by Closet Skeleton, 25 August 2021 - 08:24 AM.


#9
Ulfast

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I think thay the best thing for us is more ridge runners but that becomes pretty boring after a while. I tihnk its fun to spice it up some times and surprise your opponent with something else. But I do think that tyranids as brood brother is the better option or a tank commander as several has pointed out. I was mostly wondering if we could do soemthing special with our own Leman russ. 



#10
Rogue

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2cp per shooting phase is costly, though. And against T8, 6 shots at S7 averages more wounds caused than 3.5 shots at S8 (and the exocrine has a better AP too).

Incidentally, I may have an out of date codex, but I thought the exocrine got +1 to hit for standing still, not as a stratagem. Plus reroll 1s to hit for being Kronos, whereas the Russ has to be brood brothers, which isn't doing much for it.

I think I'd still go Tank Commander myself, so I'm not trying to convince anyone one way or the other, just opening up the conversation.

Plus, it depends what else you're getting. You can't get a lone Tank Commander, and the old 3 HQ detachment is gone too, so you need to buy other things to fit it in. Versus getting three exocrines at the cost of just one HQ. Horses for courses, obviously, but it's an option, and keeping our options open feels a very Cult-like thing to do :)

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Painted this year: jackal alphus, kellermorph, hypermorph, three jackals, five acolytes, ten neophytes; gravis captain

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#11
Rogue

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I was mostly wondering if we could do soemthing special with our own Leman russ.


I think special might be pushing it. The Russ is a good platform, but BS4+ hurts it - knowing that half of everything you fire is going to miss hurts (especially when we can boost our combat troops to a super-reliable 2+ to hit rerolling 1s).

Perhaps the best thing we can do with the Cult Russ is go all in. Three T8 hulls when your opponent was expecting nothing above T3 can come as a nasty surprise.

But even then, against a more generalist list, you're giving their anti-tank weapons something to do, rather than wasting multi-meltas and lascannons against neophytes.

Special? I've not found it yet. A useful tool to spring every now and then? Yes.
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Painted this year: jackal alphus, kellermorph, hypermorph, three jackals, five acolytes, ten neophytes; gravis captain

I have a very small Cult/math-hammer blog here: https://redbrotherho...ixsite.com/cult


#12
Closet Skeleton

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2cp per shooting phase is costly, though. And against T8, 6 shots at S7 averages more wounds caused than 3.5 shots at S8 (and the exocrine has a better AP too).

 

Demolisher cannons or Executioner Plasma cannons are the same AP as a Exocrine's Plasma. Unless he's shooting at non-DG marines the Exocrine also really wants 2cp for pathogenic slime.

 

Incidentally, I may have an out of date codex, but I thought the exocrine got +1 to hit for standing still, not as a stratagem. Plus reroll 1s to hit for being Kronos, whereas the Russ has to be brood brothers, which isn't doing much for it.

 

Its double shots and +1 to hit to stand still and then a stratagem to count as standing still. Moving is pretty much essential for first turn cover and line of fire reasons so in practice its a stratagem for +1 to hit and double shots.

 

 

You can't get a lone Tank Commander, and the old 3 HQ detachment is gone too, so you need to buy other things to fit it in. Versus getting three exocrines at the cost of just one HQ. Horses for courses, obviously, but it's an option, and keeping our options open feels a very Cult-like thing to do smile.png

 

5 Scions or 10 guardsman are cheaper than any Tyranid HQ. The cheapest one is the Tyranid Prime who is useless because he buffs a unit you're not taking and isn't psychic so can't use Symbiostorm to buff your Kronos Exocrine, so you're taking at least a Neurothrope who is worth almost 20 guardsmen.

 

A Spearhead of Neurothrope +3 Exocrines is 605, a Patrol of 2 tank commanders and 5 Scions is 435, a Battalion of 3 Tank commanders and 30 guardsmen is only 735. You can only move and or symbiostorm one Exocrine at a time while the Tank commanders can each order themselves all the time.


Edited by Closet Skeleton, 27 August 2021 - 07:31 AM.

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#13
Wulf Vengis

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The Leman Russ
One of the best investments a player can make.
Statistically proven from edition to edition.*

*: Results may vary, edition to edition, battle to battle, player to player or based on loadout.
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