Airbrush Needs new part

[The Neverborn]

Hi,

 

I bought a Iwata HP-C second hand. The guy who sold it to me said it would probably need a new needle soon.

 

I just want the check that is the case as it's started playing up  I don't get always get a "full spray" from it anymore - pretty much needs a full disassembly and clean every 5-10 minutes even when using "air paints" and flow improver.

I moved the needle back 3-4mm and the spray was good and constant. So seems like he was right, or could there be something else needed?

 

Also does anyone know which Needle i need for my model and where i can get one from - UK.

 

BBA

[Cruor Vault]

Sounds like the inside of the needle cone isn't clean enough.

 

Worn out parts would be more likely to give you aberrant spraying patterns or backflow issues.

 

If you're new to airbrushing.

 

That little cone is going to be the bane of your existence for a while.  It's NEVER as clean as you think it is.

 

I highly recommend getting a jar of Hoppes #9 gun cleaner.  It will chew through any paint left in the airbrush very quickly and easily.  I often use an old paintbrush dipped in that to clean out the inside of the cone.

 

That being said, it cant hurt to have some spare parts on hand in case you do damage something.  The cone and needle are both easily found from a variety of places.  Your local hobby store likely has the ability to order them (assuming it's a FLGS and not a GW kiosk).  I also have found them on amazon for pretty reasonable prices.  Just make sure you get the right diameter needle to match the cone!

[Firedrake Cordova]

Generally with airbrushes, the problem is the airbrush isn't as clean as you think it is. Personally, I'd let some Ultimate Modelling Products airbrush cleaner* (or Iwata if you're happier with that) sit in it for 5 minutes, and then spray it out, and see if it behaves.

 

* smells a lot like IPA ...

 

Also does anyone know which Needle i need for my model and where i can get one from - UK.

I can highly recommend Air-Craft - personally, I'd drop them an e-mail and explain what you're experiencing, as they're very helpful (the owner builds model jets, so knows their products well ). From the looks of it, the needle is about £9.70.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Firedrake Cordova

[The Neverborn]

So in a possibly related matter....

 

I've just managed to sheer of the nozzle cone trying to remove it for a deeper clean.....

 

Luckily i managed to get the bearing out too with a pen knife.

 

I now need one of those too....

 

Gun Oil is hard to come by in the UK it seems.

[Firedrake Cordova]

I've just managed to sheer of the nozzle cone trying to remove it for a deeper clean.....

Doh - that's sufficiently common with Iwata airbrushes that Iwata have a video on it, and I'm pretty sure there's a tool for removing the remnants (I think it's made by Sparmax). Unfortunately, nozzles are a bit more expensive at around £25. :(

[The Neverborn]

I don't suppose you know the components I need?

 

It does seem congruent that the nozzle cone was the problem. I've removed them from Neos before with no issue.

[Firedrake Cordova]

I don't suppose you know the components I need?

Best bet is to navigate through the spare parts list on Air-Tech - they're organised by range & model, so it's a case of clicking on the range, then model, then finding the part from the list of parts for that model (or e-mail them and they'll send you links to the various items). I'm afraid I'm not 100% on the Iwata line, as I have a Harder & Steenbeck :blush:

[Arkhanist]

Getting the nozzle properly clean is always the most fun part of airbrush maintenance, and definitely sounds like the cause of your original issue.

 

My usual method is get the cup clean with vallejo airbrush cleaner and an old paintbrush (spray cleaner into an airbrush pot). Next step is some acetone-containing nailpolish remover. I then pull back the needle, cover the nozzle end with kitchen paper towel, then press down for air; the air can't go out the nozzle, so comes back up the paint channel and bubbles up in the paint cup (too much air will splatter, so go easy on the pressure!). This is called backflushing, and helps break up any clogs. If it's still cloggy after that, then it's take off the nozzle and scrub inside with nailpolish remover and the smallest interdental brush I can get, ideally the extra-soft ones; you can usually pick them in a pack of 6 or 8. The soft plastic bristles won't damage the inside of the nozzle. Acetone is fine to use on an airbrush with teflon/ptfe seals, but it can damage rubber seals, so use with caution on cheap airbrushes (iwata hp-c should be fine, that uses a ptfe needle seal)

 

I've heard the gun oil recommendation before, but not easily available in the UK given guns are very heavily regulated.

 

I've ordered stuff from airbrushes.com before no problem; they're also an iwata specialist.

 

hp-c parts list

hp-c needle

hp-c nozzle

iwata nozzle wrench - easier to remove the nozzle without damage than the basic spanner.

 

Note those are the 'standard' nozzle and needle. They do do optional different sized ones, and they need to be matched up (so the hole in the nozzle matches the diameter of the needle), but since you're buying both they'll be fine.

[The Neverborn]

These guys at airbursh seem to go out of their ways to say that you should NEVER remove the nozzle.

 

Is that the case?

 

Sort of a last, last, last resort extermintatus?

[Lucien Eilam]

I’ve been using the same needle in my HP-CH for 8 years now. It’s not a consumable item, it should never “wear out”. You’ll only need a replacement if you damage it through mishandling.

 

These guys at airbursh seem to go out of their ways to say that you should NEVER remove the nozzle.

 

I wouldn’t go quite that far. Removing it shouldn’t have to be a part of your routine cleaning, as long as you’re prompt and thorough in cleaning it every time. But it’s designed to be removable and interchangeable, just be mindful that you’re dealing with delicate, precision components.

 

For the Hi-Line series you can swap out the standard 0.3mm needle/nozzle for 0.2mm parts, for even finer lines. I think there might be a 0.4mm option too, if you needed to go broader. So, it’s obviously intended to be done outside of replacing damaged components.

 

(Incidentally, I’ve never felt the need for either option. 0.3mm should be plenty flexible enough for miniature painting.)

 

I imagine they just have to deal with a lot of returns from people who’ve broken or bent something removing it. You’ve experienced yourself how easy it is to damage.

 

You can buy gun oil in the UK easily, try Amazon. It’s typically just a light mineral oil blended with a corrosion inhibitor and has plenty of other applications. Most brands of hair clipper oil are a similar formulation if you’re really struggling. A lot of tool and bike oils are also fairly similar, but tend to be too viscous for airbrushes.

 

Don’s Airbrush Tips is a great online resource by a guy who has clearly never been afraid to strip an airbrush down to its component parts.

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

Edit: forestalled by the post above.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla

[LameBeard]

Just want to say thanks to everyone in this thread. I have a similar problem, an Iawata that sometimes works like a dream, but more often doesn’t, and is going downhill. Thanks for the suggestions here, I’ll look at these links.

 

For me, I think my needle has developed a “hook nose” which might then catch paint and give me more and more frequent “dry tip”, so maybe I’ll try a new needle before anything more serious.

[Cruor Vault]

Just want to say thanks to everyone in this thread. I have a similar problem, an Iawata that sometimes works like a dream, but more often doesn’t, and is going downhill. Thanks for the suggestions here, I’ll look at these links.

 

For me, I think my needle has developed a “hook nose” which might then catch paint and give me more and more frequent “dry tip”, so maybe I’ll try a new needle before anything more serious.

 

I crooked needle will 100% cause this issue, as well as make your spray cone irregular.  A fresh needle will solve it for sure.

[Firedrake Cordova]

These guys at airbursh seem to go out of their ways to say that you should NEVER remove the nozzle. Is that the case?

From what I've seen when I was looking at airbrushes, it's pretty common to shear the nozzle off when removing or refitting it. Iwata state, "To prolong the life of these parts never remove the nozzle unless it is damaged or clogged".

 

I’ve been using the same needle in my HP-CH for 8 years now. It’s not a consumable item, it should never “wear out”. You’ll only need a replacement if you damage it through mishandling.

Personally, I can't see how a needle would "wear out" (it's harder than the brass it comes into contact with), and have been using the same needle in my H&S for 4 years, although Iwata do say, "Nozzles and Needles require periodic replacement".

 

(Incidentally, I’ve never felt the need for either option. 0.3mm should be plenty flexible enough for miniature painting.)

Indeed - according to the owner of Badger, you should match the needle/nozzle to the medium (with 0.3mm being correct for acrylic paint), and that going to a finer needle/nozzle does not necessarily mean a finer line (it does, however, mean a lot more clogs and annoyance if you don't get the dilution spot on...). Of course, that doesn't stop Angel Giraldez using a 0.15mm needle/nozzle in his Infinity with Vallejo Game/Model Color...

 

For me, I think my needle has developed a “hook nose” which might then catch paint and give me more and more frequent “dry tip”, so maybe I’ll try a new needle before anything more serious.

As Cruor Vault says, I think your diagnosis is correct (a jeweller's loupe is helpful for checking, though). Badger has a very handy troubleshooting guide, which is pretty-much indispensable for everyone.

[Arkhanist]

Needle's don't wear out per-se, but do get blunted or bent, if they get dropped or you bang the needle tip into something. Both it and the nozzle are delicate parts.

 

The nozzle on my H&S is pretty chunky, so more robust, but also more space to get clogs so I usually need to clean it manually periodically. Iwata nozzles are tiny, so just running decent cleaning solution and backflushing should clean it most of the time, but it will still sometimes need a scrub to clear a bad clog.

 

If you remove the needle from the brush, you can often find if it's hooked by running your finger and thumb along the length to the tip - you'll feel it if it has a burr or significant bend. Be careful you don't poke yourself though, the needle is sharp! To check for a slight bend, roll the tapered (angled) end against a flat surface; if it's fine then it will roll smoothly, but if bent, the tip will lift off the surface while the rest of the taper stays in contact.

 

I have used this method before to fix a bent needle; saved buying a new one.

 

 

Sorry, when I was referring to gun oil, I meant the hoppe's #9 cleaner specifically (it seems to have some aggressive solvents in it given the toxicity warnings); you can get it from shooting goods suppliers in the UK, but it seems to be out of stock most of the time, e.g.

 

https://www.shootingsportsuk.co.uk/cleaning-maintenance/solvents-and-cleaner/hoppe-s-9-no-9-gun-bore-cleaner-5oz-bottle/

 

Light machine oils are 10 a penny, certainly.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Arkhanist

[Arkhanist]

Thinking about it, an alternative to the hoppes in the UK is a can of airbrush liquid reamer. It has xylene and acetone in it, and it clears paint real good - let spray a bit on the nozzle and into the paint channel via the cup, and let it sit for a few minutes, and it'll dissolve any gunk stuck in there. Don't go huffing it though (xylene!) and use in small quantities. More aggressive than you need most of the time, but when normal cleaning just doesn't seem to be having an effect, it's what I've turned to.

[Imren]

I have been airbrushing since 2013, and whenever I have an issue with any of my two airbrushes its 90% of the case of dry paint accumulation in the nozzle and to get it out I remove the nozzle and give it a bath of acetone in a small paint tray for 2-3 minutes, the dried paint dissolves and can be removed with a super thin sewing needle.

I have never had an issue with the needles, probably because I use a needle protector and the nozzle, (that forky thing with two protruding prongs) so I suggest you use that too.

At the end of a paint session I suggest you do the following and you will barely ever have any issues:

1. Rinse out the cup and spray through the airbrush with airbrush cleaner.
2. Clean the nozzle externally.
3. Take out the needle, and pull it through a paper towel soaked with airbrush cleaner, repeat until no paint residue left on towel.
4. Lubricate the needle tip with some needle juice and reinstall the needle. This will protect the seal-face of the seals between cup compartment and trigger housing so that they wear out slower.
5. Function thest the airbrush with a drop of water.
6. Put back the nozzle cap.

 

So the biggest problem I have had is dried paint pieces getting stuck in the nozzle. So how do they get there? Most likely its due to dried paint flakes that gets formed on the interior wall of a half full paint pot or dropper bottle combined with the use of shaker balls that when shaking hits the walls and chips off dried paint flakes that eventually get into the airbrush paint cup.

 

So I recommend not using shaker balls in pots and dropper boittles and instead just shake them for longer and more vigously.

 

Cheers

[LameBeard]

 

I don't suppose you know the components I need?

Best bet is to navigate through the spare parts list on Air-Tech - they're organised by range & model, so it's a case of clicking on the range, then model, then finding the part from the list of parts for that model (or e-mail them and they'll send you links to the various items). I'm afraid I'm not 100% on the Iwata line, as I have a Harder & Steenbeck

 

@Firedrake Cordova - Thanks - I am giving them a try, ordered a new needle. The Iawata Neo has a weird 0.35mm needle, so I'm glad I have ordered a genuine replacement and not just gambled on putting in some random needle I got free with my pot.

 

@Arkhanist - thanks for this tip and suggestion too. I did give it a try, but I think I was just too clumsy to get it to work. Probably the clumsiness that bent the needle in the first place.  I guess my problem how to hold the airbrush when you take the cone off to clean the cone - that's what needs cleaning the most, but that's when the needle is exposed and most vulnerable, so the one problem leads to the other.  My airbrush cleaning pot/holder clearly not the solution ...

 

Needle's don't wear out per-se, but do get blunted or bent, if they get dropped or you bang the needle tip into something. Both it and the nozzle are delicate parts.

If you remove the needle from the brush, you can often find if it's hooked by running your finger and thumb along the length to the tip - you'll feel it if it has a burr or significant bend. Be careful you don't poke yourself though, the needle is sharp! To check for a slight bend, roll the tapered (angled) end against a flat surface; if it's fine then it will roll smoothly, but if bent, the tip will lift off the surface while the rest of the taper stays in contact.

 

I have used this method before to fix a bent needle; saved buying a new one.

 

 

 

[Arkhanist]

@Arkhanist - thanks for this tip and suggestion too. I did give it a try, but I think I was just too clumsy to get it to work. Probably the clumsiness that bent the needle in the first place.  I guess my problem how to hold the airbrush when you take the cone off to clean the cone - that's what needs cleaning the most, but that's when the needle is exposed and most vulnerable, so the one problem leads to the other.  My airbrush cleaning pot/holder clearly not the solution ...

Oh, I always remove the needle first; as you say, to easy to damage otherwise.

 

You have a Neo, so similar to most brushes. Just unscrew the back of the airbrush, undo the locking nut, and carefully remove the needle. Any time I need to clean the nozzle, I'll want to clean the needle too, just wipe it down with cleaning solution until it's shiny. Put it aside; I use my mousepad so it doesn't roll away, but any piece of cloth or a paper towel would also work.  I remove and put the locking nut down too, so it doesn't fall off when it's half undone, but I don't know if the neo has that issue.

 

Then you can remove the aircap and nozzle, give them a good clean; soak in cleaner/run in sonic cleaner/scrape with interdental brush. Once clean, put them back on the brush.

 

Before putting the needle back in, lube up the first 1/3rd of the needle if you have some; I'm partial to badger regdab needle juice myself, but I know of people that use sewing machine oil or even just straight glycerin (I'm fairly sure that's the main component of most airbrush lube) because cheaper! A little goes a long way, so just a dab and spread it out. It helps get the needle back in, and reduces tip dry.

 

Then just feed the needle back in tfrom the rear gently (ensure it passes through the trigger) until it goes all the way through the nozzle+aircap and stops, then give it a little twist; just makes sure it's got a good seal against the nozzle. Screw the locking nut back on, then the back of brush, and done.

 

The only time I wouldn't take the needle out the back first, is when the needle tip is too bent to fit through the nozzle and pulling it backwards would damage the nozzle and potentially the seal in the middle of the brush that stops paint leaking into the rear. In that case, I'd remove the back and needle locking nut, then the aircap and nozzle, and pull the needle out the front of the brush - being careful I don't poke myself when pulling by the pointy end! Then reassemble in the normal manner (needle in the back) once I've unbent the needle or fitting a new one.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Arkhanist

[LameBeard]

 

@Arkhanist - thanks for this tip and suggestion too. I did give it a try, but I think I was just too clumsy to get it to work. Probably the clumsiness that bent the needle in the first place.  I guess my problem how to hold the airbrush when you take the cone off to clean the cone - that's what needs cleaning the most, but that's when the needle is exposed and most vulnerable, so the one problem leads to the other.  My airbrush cleaning pot/holder clearly not the solution ...

 

Before putting the needle back in, lube up the first 1/3rd of the needle if you have some; I'm partial to badger regdab needle juice myself, but I know of people that use sewing machine oil or even just straight glycerin (I'm fairly sure that's the main component of most airbrush lube) because cheaper! It helps get the needle back in, and reduces tip dry.

...

 

 the seal in the middle of the brush that stops paint leaking into the rear.

 

Needle juice - I clearly need this. Should have added it to that order with the needle. Maybe we have some sewing machine oil or glycerin about, thanks for that tip.

 

That seal. Not really sure where you mean but "paint leaking into the rear" umm maybe I already damaged that seal ...

 

[Arkhanist]

 

 

@Arkhanist - thanks for this tip and suggestion too. I did give it a try, but I think I was just too clumsy to get it to work. Probably the clumsiness that bent the needle in the first place.  I guess my problem how to hold the airbrush when you take the cone off to clean the cone - that's what needs cleaning the most, but that's when the needle is exposed and most vulnerable, so the one problem leads to the other.  My airbrush cleaning pot/holder clearly not the solution ...

 

Before putting the needle back in, lube up the first 1/3rd of the needle if you have some; I'm partial to badger regdab needle juice myself, but I know of people that use sewing machine oil or even just straight glycerin (I'm fairly sure that's the main component of most airbrush lube) because cheaper! It helps get the needle back in, and reduces tip dry.

...

 

 the seal in the middle of the brush that stops paint leaking into the rear.

 

Needle juice - I clearly need this. Should have added it to that order with the needle. Maybe we have some sewing machine oil or glycerin about, thanks for that tip.

 

That seal. Not really sure where you mean but "paint leaking into the rear" umm maybe I already damaged that seal ...

 

 

 

For the neo, here's the parts list (in the manual)

 

Part 5 is the needle packing o-ring (teflon), and part 6 is the needle packing screw that holds it in place. It's fitted forward of the trigger, and the needle passes through the middle of both. Normally the o-ring seals against the needle, so that paint in the front of the brush can't pass through into the trigger area. This is also why you should rinse the cup of all liquid before taking the needle out

 

If paint has got back there, you might have a damaged seal, or more likely it just needs removing cleaning, and refitting snuggly. If you do need to replace, you can buy one, e.g. here - just search for neo needle packing, or "IWN-1501" (its part number).

 

 

To get to it, you will first have to fully disassemble the brush. Just make sure you put all the parts down where they won't roll away (been there, done that...). It's not as complex as it looks, just take it one step at a time - if you're used to removing the needle and nozzle, you're already most of the way there. Just watch out for the spring (part 8 in the diagram) - they have a habit of trying to escape to freedom!

 

Guide to disassembly:

 

 

Once that's done, here's how to remove the needle packing seal for cleaning - you basically unscrew it from the back. This isn't normally needed as part of maintance, just if you've got a paint leak into the trigger area.

 

 

You can use a special screwdriver as they show in the video, I believe one comes in the iwata maintenance kit, but that's expensive. As a normal person that's not servicing airbrushes daily, just use a normal thin flat-blade screwdriver that's long enough to reach. If it's really caked in paint back there, you may need a q-tip soaked in cleaner to clear the notch so you can get the screwdriver in.

 

You'll also likely need to clean out the whole back of the brush of any paint; this is where a sonic cleaner comes in handy! just don't submerge the air valve body (part 15 in the diagram above) in water, so if you plan to soak the main body of the airbrush, remove that part first and put aside; it just unscrews. The rest of the parts can be cleaned at will.

 

When reassmbling, just do what you did to take it apart in reverse, and go slow and follow the videos. When refitting the needle packing screw, don't tighten it in super hard - you may not be able to get the needle through afterwards. You can test run the needle from back to front through it (without fitting any other parts) to see if it's too tight or too loose. It should provide a bit of resistance, but not loads, if that makes sense.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Arkhanist

[LameBeard]

This is great thanks. Maybe the seal is ok - maybe I have just been frustrated trying to get the airbrush to work and taken the needle out without rinsing the cup a few times - and that’s why I got some paint in the rear. Feels like cutting corners is not a good idea with the airbrush.

[Rik Lightstar]

The only thing I do differently from Arkhanist is needle removal.

 

I remove the back and undo the locking nut, I unscrew the front assembly and put the cap and nozzle straight into a shot glass with some cleaner. Then I push the rear end of the needle until I can pull it through.

 

The only reason for doing it that way is that it stops you pulling any paint residue through into the rear part of the airbrush which should stay dry and paint free.

 

I use a cheap replacement needle from amazon to push through from back to front each time until that comes through clean. You can feel if it "snags" at all so you know if you've missed anything while cleaning. This needle is obviously the right gauge and length for the job which helps, but as its really just a cleaning tool you don't need to worry about the tip on it.

 

Rik

[Rik Lightstar]

This is great thanks. Maybe the seal is ok - maybe I have just been frustrated trying to get the airbrush to work and taken the needle out without rinsing the cup a few times - and that’s why I got some paint in the rear. Feels like cutting corners is not a good idea with the airbrush.

My experience with mine has been that every time I've attempted to save time by cutting corners it's created more work for me. Both in the added maintenance to get it back to where it should have been and with rectifying any dodgy paint outcomes.

 

Rik

[Arkhanist]

I don't have a lot of choice but to take the needle out backwards on my badger patriot; there's a big ball on the back end of it :)

 

And my H&S has a notch on the back of the needle to ID the diameter, which I was warned can catch on the needle packing and damage it if you take out frontways. I think out the back is more common, and I've not had any issues with paint getting in the rear via the needle (long as I wash out the cup first!), but I do know those that prefer to go out the front and that seems sensible too.

 

Definitely seconded on the shortcuts though; you always end up regretting it - especially skimping the thorough end-of-session clean, you'd think I'd learn...