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#3051
Taliesin

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Re; Swallow and Sanguinius. I was also at that Warhammer Fest Europe meeting in which Swallow said he wanted to do the Sanguinius book but still had no ideas for it.

But that is now quite a lot of years ago with no sign since of anything happening on that front, so there is every possibility that another author picked it up instead.


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#3052
theSpirea

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We know things can change the last minute in the project. For example, iirc French was asked to write Mortis and it wasn't the original plan, he was supposed to write only one Siege novel. Until GW confirms the author, I still hope.


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Upcoming BL writers to keep an eye on (mostly based on their entries in Inferno! and other anthologies).

Robert Rath, Michael R. Fletcher, Peter McLean, Nate Crowley, Lora Gray, Jake Ozga, Denny Flowers.


#3053
DarkChaplain

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Re; Swallow and Sanguinius. I was also at that Warhammer Fest Europe meeting in which Swallow said he wanted to do the Sanguinius book but still had no ideas for it.

But that is now quite a lot of years ago with no sign since of anything happening on that front, so there is every possibility that another author picked it up instead.

I think those were two different events, actually. I recall getting annoyed when it was brought back up on another event later on where he supposedly said he had an idea now/then.

 

But then, I wasn't attending and can't be bothered to check where/when it was last mentioned. I sincerely hope that he was taken off the project in favor of Wraight, but I dare not hope for it.


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#3054
Bobss

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Wraight documenting Sangy's mysterious activity with the Necrons during the Great Crusade, thank you, Mr. Magic Genie


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#3055
Petitioner's City

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On Swallow, this is an interesting comment on his writing in 2008:

 

 

ColdFusion180 said: 

Was there ever a time when you initially thought you could not write something because you believed it was too difficult, but later found a way to overcome the difficulty? What was the difficulty and how did you overcome it?
I guess the closest I came to something like this was when Marco Palmieri asked me to write the first Terok Nor novel Day of the Vipers in 2008. I was initially reticent to do what would be a "corridors of power" type political thriller, because my comfort zone is writing fast-paced action-adventure stuff - but Marco, being the great editor and collaborator that he is, encouraged me to lean into it and try something new, and I'm glad I did.

 

James is an active participant on the TrekBBS forum, and the thread this is in - General Q & A Session For The Authors - is a great resource for anyone interested in understanding the tie-in fiction world, with a good mix of UK and US authors.


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#3056
DarkChaplain

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Wraight documenting Sangy's mysterious activity with the Necrons during the Great Crusade, thank you, Mr. Magic Genie

 

That's one of the big gaps that I wish we'd gotten filled in years ago. Especially considering that the Pharos is of confirmed Necron-origin and between Goulding tackling the subject in his Silent King short story, while also being closely involved with the Sotha arc, you can imagine that there was a clear intent to connect the dots in future publications.... which then never happened, probably also as a result of Imperium Secundus getting canned as gears shifted at BL/GW right after it kicked off.



#3057
skylerboodie

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Re; Swallow and Sanguinius. I was also at that Warhammer Fest Europe meeting in which Swallow said he wanted to do the Sanguinius book but still had no ideas for it.

But that is now quite a lot of years ago with no sign since of anything happening on that front, so there is every possibility that another author picked it up instead.

I think those were two different events, actually. I recall getting annoyed when it was brought back up on another event later on where he supposedly said he had an idea now/then.

 

But then, I wasn't attending and can't be bothered to check where/when it was last mentioned. I sincerely hope that he was taken off the project in favor of Wraight, but I dare not hope for it.

 

I know that at The Horus Heresy Weekender in February 2019, James Swallow said he would be doing the Sanguinius Primarchs novel and he had a really great concept for it; Ian St Martin was on the panel and said he knew what JS had planned and it sounded great (though he would say that of course, sitting right next to him...!)


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#3058
Ubiquitous1984

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Graham McNeill has just confirmed that he is writing one of the remaining Primarch novels:

 

 

https://twitter.com/...621207612821507


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#3059
cheywood

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That’s… a surprise. I wouldn’t have pegged Graham as one of the remaining writers. Might be interesting to see his perspective on Mortarion? I’m hoping Abnett does Horus, but could easily see it going to Graham.

#3060
Ubiquitous1984

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That’s… a surprise. I wouldn’t have pegged Graham as one of the remaining writers. Might be interesting to see his perspective on Mortarion? I’m hoping Abnett does Horus, but could easily see it going to Graham.

“I can’t say”

 

think that means he’s writing Horus!


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#3061
Petitioner's City

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Aww I'd hoped French would do Horus (but also Dorn :D ) Of course McNeill can't say it til he is allowed to, whichever of the four (or 6 :P ) remaining....

 

Who is left? Dorn, Sanguinius, Horus and Mortarion.

 

Quite varied individuals, quite varied legions - and McNeill could certainly do any of them.

 

Of course Horus does feel very McNeil - and certain things - Horus growing up, Horus being found, Horus during the Crusade, Horus even during much of the heresy - make good subjects. 


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#3062
theSpirea

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The way McNeill completely ruined and failed to capture Horus' fall in False Gods I really hope he's not going to be writing that one. I honestly take Swallow over McNeill when it comes to characterisation...


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Upcoming BL writers to keep an eye on (mostly based on their entries in Inferno! and other anthologies).

Robert Rath, Michael R. Fletcher, Peter McLean, Nate Crowley, Lora Gray, Jake Ozga, Denny Flowers.


#3063
A Melancholic Sanguinity

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So with McNeill's work on Horus we have...

 

False Gods

Vengeful Spirit 

The short from Blood of the Emperor

 

Uh... I hope he's not writing the Horus Primarchs entry.


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#3064
DarkChaplain

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....now listen, I actually like most of what McNeill has put out that I've read. There are definite weaknesses to all his works, for sure, and he often goes over-length instead of trimming away the fat.

 

But man, I really wanted somebody else to do a Primarchs book, not the guy who seems to be the only individual allowed to contribute novellas to the Siege, put out a very strange The Crimson King that was conceptualized many years before it was actually written and then didn't mesh well. The guy who introduces plot points and characters and then straight up forgets about them (to the point where he admits so in afterwords).

I'm still miffed about Lucius being completely forgotten, too.

 

And when I add that Horus-on-Cthonia short story to the mix, I am really worried about him going back to Horus; at least Vengeful Spirit had to be set during the ongoing Heresy, who the hell knows when the Primarchs novel will be set at this point.

 

Then, McNeill already wrote The Wolf of Ash and Fire, which tackles the Emperor x Horus vs Orks storyline, too. I don't think it'll deal with anything else surrounding Ullanor - we got enough glimpses of that, including Horus' own flashbacks. What really is there to cover that hasn't been sufficiently and reasonably skillfully been told in various short stories and novels mainly focused on other Primarchs and Legions? Well, aside from all that FW fluff that would undoubtedly make the novel feel more like a product brochure again.

 

I'd expect it to be another mid-Heresy story rather than something on the exploratory level of other Primarchs entries. Something rather by-the-numbers, involving a couple of McNeill's own cast of characters. Maybe/probably Magnus or Perturabo, depending on the timeframe chosen.

 

My best-case scenario looking back would probably be McNeill actually filling in the gap between Horus Rising and False Gods, to explore the Interex war that was brushed aside back then as "this stuff happened and it upset Horus". That one gap there is probably the weakest unexplored link I'd pinpoint, because it holds a lot of implied character development for Horus that one might need to smooth out the fall in False Gods. Here's a chance to elevate his own novel retroactively by adding a piece in-between that shows growing resentment, maybe a lore-nugget that hasn't been told before about his relationship with the Emperor, something that might make him believe - or choose to believe - the whole "Daddy wants to be a God"-thing.

The Interex would make for a great vehicle to tackle the weird relationship of the Great Crusade's Imperium with Chaos and species/weapons that make use of the warp like the Kinebrach did, too.

 

Yeah, I think I'd be okay with this. Whether the execution will be up to snuff is a different issue entirely, but at least there'd be a chance to "fix" one of the underlying issues with False Gods in there.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if Abnett wasn't scheduled in for Horus, but was recently taken off the project as the scope of the Siege of Terra finale expanded, leading to the split into two novels.

 

Honestly cannot see McNeill writing Sanguinius or Dorn, at all, and his only touching point with Mortarion would be Nikaea in A Thousand Sons. He's out of the loop on him.

 

 

And after reading Angel Exterminatus, I'd take McNeill's characterization over Swallow's (Fear to Tread) any day. McNeill made Perturabo more nuanced than Angry-but-not-enough-to-outangry-Angron.


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#3065
Grey Angel

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The way McNeill completely ruined and failed to capture Horus' fall in False Gods I really hope he's not going to be writing that one. I honestly take Swallow over McNeill when it comes to characterisation...


False Gods is one of my favourite Horus Heresy books
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#3066
Ubiquitous1984

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....now listen, I actually like most of what McNeill has put out that I've read. There are definite weaknesses to all his works, for sure, and he often goes over-length instead of trimming away the fat.

 

But man, I really wanted somebody else to do a Primarchs book, not the guy who seems to be the only individual allowed to contribute novellas to the Siege, put out a very strange The Crimson King that was conceptualized many years before it was actually written and then didn't mesh well. The guy who introduces plot points and characters and then straight up forgets about them (to the point where he admits so in afterwords).

I'm still miffed about Lucius being completely forgotten, too.

 

And when I add that Horus-on-Cthonia short story to the mix, I am really worried about him going back to Horus; at least Vengeful Spirit had to be set during the ongoing Heresy, who the hell knows when the Primarchs novel will be set at this point.

 

Then, McNeill already wrote The Wolf of Ash and Fire, which tackles the Emperor x Horus vs Orks storyline, too. I don't think it'll deal with anything else surrounding Ullanor - we got enough glimpses of that, including Horus' own flashbacks. What really is there to cover that hasn't been sufficiently and reasonably skillfully been told in various short stories and novels mainly focused on other Primarchs and Legions? Well, aside from all that FW fluff that would undoubtedly make the novel feel more like a product brochure again.

 

I'd expect it to be another mid-Heresy story rather than something on the exploratory level of other Primarchs entries. Something rather by-the-numbers, involving a couple of McNeill's own cast of characters. Maybe/probably Magnus or Perturabo, depending on the timeframe chosen.

 

My best-case scenario looking back would probably be McNeill actually filling in the gap between Horus Rising and False Gods, to explore the Interex war that was brushed aside back then as "this stuff happened and it upset Horus". That one gap there is probably the weakest unexplored link I'd pinpoint, because it holds a lot of implied character development for Horus that one might need to smooth out the fall in False Gods. Here's a chance to elevate his own novel retroactively by adding a piece in-between that shows growing resentment, maybe a lore-nugget that hasn't been told before about his relationship with the Emperor, something that might make him believe - or choose to believe - the whole "Daddy wants to be a God"-thing.

The Interex would make for a great vehicle to tackle the weird relationship of the Great Crusade's Imperium with Chaos and species/weapons that make use of the warp like the Kinebrach did, too.

 

Yeah, I think I'd be okay with this. Whether the execution will be up to snuff is a different issue entirely, but at least there'd be a chance to "fix" one of the underlying issues with False Gods in there.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if Abnett wasn't scheduled in for Horus, but was recently taken off the project as the scope of the Siege of Terra finale expanded, leading to the split into two novels.

 

Honestly cannot see McNeill writing Sanguinius or Dorn, at all, and his only touching point with Mortarion would be Nikaea in A Thousand Sons. He's out of the loop on him.

 

 

And after reading Angel Exterminatus, I'd take McNeill's characterization over Swallow's (Fear to Tread) any day. McNeill made Perturabo more nuanced than Angry-but-not-enough-to-outangry-Angron.

Can I just say that I love your idea of the Primarch book being a prequel to False Gods.  There are so many other rich characters that were in the fleet at that time that could also be included alongside Horus (as the Primarch books like to do, with varying degrees of success).  


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#3067
Noserenda

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Best case he writes a short story about Horus... In the eye of terror post Heresy TWIST its Clone Horus! What he gets up to before Abbaddon and co stab him up. Release it First of  April for free, everyones a winner baby.

Except Clone Horus, he can suck it.

Might also work for Clone Fulgrim, but i actually like him :D 



#3068
byrd9999

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After McNeill bollocksed-up Horus' development on Cthonia, I'm expecting something either bland like his Magnus Primarchs entry (at best) or more :cussshow-level instant-retcon-worthy nonsense (worst case).

 

Insert "Change My Mind" meme pic here.



#3069
cheywood

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McNeill’s produced some of his better work recently with his Siege novellas, and one of the worst 40k works I’ve read in Swords of Calth. Anyone’s guess as to what we’ll get this time, though I’ve never particularly liked the way McNeill writes Primarchs (with the exception of Magnus (sometimes)).
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#3070
Roomsky

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Ehh, I don't mind Mcneill's Horus; Luparcal's certainly been written worse by other people. (And, IMO, Counter is to blame for Horus' insane development, not Mcneill.) I don't know if I'd call him a safe bet, but he's not a bad one either.

 

Alternatively he could be tackling a non-Horus Primarch, and I hope that's the case because I'd honestly be intrigued to see him take Morty, Dorn, or Sanguinius.


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#3071
mc warhammer

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mcneill's AMA from three years ago:

 

there's not one I wouldn't have fun writing, but Magnus is the primarch I've had the most fun writing about, trying to make him the cleverest guy in the room without making him an ass. It's allowed me to learn a ton of things in writing him, so it's always educational to get into his head. There's others I haven't written, because others have done such a great job with them, but if I had carte blanche, I'd love to get inside Horus's skull in a Primarchs novella.

 

and

 

Mortarion isn't high on my list of tales I'd like to tell. Jim and the others have done such a great job of representing him, so I think the tales and arcs they might have in mind are the right ones to tell.

 


Edited by mc warhammer, 12 October 2021 - 02:33 AM.

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It always amused me that the GW Mail Order ‘Trolls’ as we (starting with me) had always styled ourselves insisted as being rebranded ‘Space Marines’. Why anyone would want to be associated with semi-lobotomized, hypnotically indoctrinated slave-soldiers in thrall to an uncaring (and possibly non-existent) god I couldn’t imagine. - Rick Priestley

 2019

#3072
skylerboodie

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I expect the following:

Rogal Dorn - Andy Clark
Mortarion - David Annandale / Chris Wraight
Sanguinius - James Swallow
Horus - Graham McNeill

#3073
Bobss

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It will be Horus, which isn't a bad thing because I've never thought McNeill's Horus was terrible, but I was dearly hoping for something a bit more nuanced set between Horus Rising and False Gods, during the Interex war specifically, which really dug into Horus struggling with the weight of being Warmaster. We see the cracks form in Horus Rising and the operation on Davin is a substantial widening of these cracks, which Erebus and the Chaos Gods pour into, but this process was still ongoing even before his wounding

 

The only other period in Horus' life that interests me would be the time between False Gods and Galaxy in Flames, or rather, during the timeskip in False Gods (so after the Davin Lodge stuff is wrapped up but before the war with the Auretian Technocracy) in which Horus is setting up the table for the Heresy to come, but written in a way that highlights how noble Horus' Heresy was, to him, initially, to help erase the EVIL BADDIE HORUS we got in Galaxy in Flames. EBH should never have been a thing until Molech


I expect the following:

Rogal Dorn - Andy Clark
Mortarion - David Annandale / Chris Wraight
Sanguinius - James Swallow
Horus - Graham McNeill

 

A Kelbor-Hal Horus Heresy Characters book interests me more than any of these lol


Edited by Bobss, 12 October 2021 - 09:47 AM.

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#3074
Petitioner's City

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Kelbor isn't even a character really, or at least has never really been developed. But because of this he doesn't have the name recognition he should.
Cinema itself is a trick of time — still pictures passed through a focused beam of light at 24 frames per second. We are reminded of that in La Jetée...

#3075
Bobss

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Kelbor isn't even a character really, or at least has never really been developed. But because of this he doesn't have the name recognition he should.

 

TANGENT TIME: I really enjoyed Mechanicum, and I think it's one of the Heresy's dark horses at least in terms of enjoyment, but the book did a pretty poor job of establishing the complexities of the Martian Schism in my opinion. Instead the book dallies around with an interesting, but quite literally irrelevant Void Dragon plot, and of course lots of Titan battles. A C'tan being buried under Mars, Kelbor-Hal wanting to snoop around forbidden vaults and Horus bribing him with an STC is a poor showing for what is one of the most interesting bits of 30k. Reading between the lines in a book like The Master of Mankind gives you a much better picture of how and why the Adeptus Mechanicus and the True/New/Dark Mechanicum became a thing, and how uneasy and unsustainable the Treaty of Olympus always was in a galaxy promulgating the Imperial Truth

 

In the same way Wraight's Valdor and Thorpe's Luther books have brought some much-needed investment and clarity to both of those characters and what they're about, a Horus Heresy Characters book would do the same for Chief Toaster

 

Both The Lost and the Damned and Mortis both had the chance to really flex on the Martian Civil War side of things in my opinion, but directed their attentions elsewhere


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