Size of the primarchs - are you a fan?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think it’s cool and appropriate the Primarchs are larger than life.

[Marshal Rohr]

8 feet is larger than life

[mc warhammer]

Also, their size varies from Chapter to Chapter - I mean Alpharius is about the same size as a large Marine, that is why he can pass as a regular Marine, or they can pass as him (if that ever happened).  In my head, when I a reading the books, they (the Primarchs) are probably  a good two feet taller, maybe a bit more, and bulkier.

alpharius has been described as in the "blurred zone" of primarch and huge astartes, which implies that other primarchs would fit into that zone. though now that we have the addition of his power to "diminish" himself, who knows how accurate his sizing is in terms of appearances up till now.

 

for my money though, i would have preferred all the primarchs to be closer to marine size. but it is what it is.

[Raktra]

Ferrus’ Primarch novel flat-out says he’s over a metre taller than a terminator.

[Karhedron]

Ferrus’ Primarch novel flat-out says he’s over a metre taller than a terminator.

That would put him somewhere around the 11' mark which is how Primarchs seem to be depicted in HH artwork.

 

Someone went through all the artwork to try and get a handle on this. Most Primarchs were in the 11-12' bracket. Dorn and Lorgar were a little shorter with Alpharius significantly smaller. Saanguinius, Mortarion and Khan were significantly taller with Magnus towering in at 15'. Angron was about average size but was usually depicted being shorter due to his hunched posture.

[Beta galactosidase]

for my money though, i would have preferred all the primarchs to be closer to marine size. but it is what it is.

It’s not what it is though.

 

When someone in 2021 sees 40k for the first time in a video game and a YouTube video and gets really into it, all the design work, all the stuff they think is cool, was done for books where a primarch and wolf guard Ranulf are the same size.

 

We also know from experience that GW retcons things whenever they want, same as DC or any other company, so there’s no need to take stuff the publish at the moment very seriously.

 

 

 

 

Ferrus’ Primarch novel flat-out says he’s over a metre taller than a terminator.

Yeah we know what it says.

 

 

(Fixed tags)

Edited September 11, 2021 by Beta galactosidase

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

[Raktra]

 

Ferrus’ Primarch novel flat-out says he’s over a metre taller than a terminator.

Yeah we know what it says.

 

 

(Fixed tags)

With the comments I’ve seen, I don’t think you do.

[Gederas]

8 feet is larger than life

See my post on the last page. 8' isn't larger than humans can get (though it often takes genetic abnormalities) in real life so...

 

Mate, that's not old lore. Thar's current, active lore. Space Marines are canonically, ON AVERAGE, [redacted] in Power Armour.

I copied this from the thread you linked. I’ve seen exactly one hard number in a codex, updated in 2019, and it’s not what you gave. So quote it, please. What’s the sentence that makes that canonical? I’ve just never seen this number you gave and it’s so strange that I have never heard of it or seen it but have seen a different one.

Okay, so I was off. HOWEVER, the only generally confirmed figure for heights was for the Custodians with the note that they are generally 9' to 9 1/2ft tall and typically this means they "stand a full head and shoulders above a typical space marine". This isn’t exact by any means but that puts a space marine in the 7-8ft typical region. Dan Abnett typically writes space marines as 8ft tall on average, though Abaddon was at least 10ft in Horus Rising since he stands closer to Horus in height than his brothers.

 

Primaris are generally described as slightly taller rather than utterly different to Firstborn, and is stated that the Magnificant (half of the Primarch organ, this is what makes Primaris bigger) has them "often growing up to a Terran foot taller with an equivalent increase in skeleto-muscular mass" compared to firstborn. Which means Primaris are nearly the same height as Custodes. This relevant because: Looking at art of Roboute Guilliman, he towers over even his Primaris - he’s easily 13 to 14ft to that scale and he’s by no means the biggest Primarch, and is described as "average height" by Primarch standards.

 

However, heights in general are kept vague. In Horus Rising, Horus has to kneel down fully to look Garviel Loken directly in the eye. If Loken is 8ft tall (Dan Abnett's standard), that easily puts Horus 14 to 16ft range. The Khan is described as being twice the height of a white Scars legionary, Ferrus is described as "over a metre taller" than a terminator (which means at least 3 feet 4 inches taller). Vulkan is described as the physically largest of the Primarchs (iirc a number given was 20 feet tall in one of the FW Black Books?).

 

Also why not compare a Marine wielding his Primarch's weapon and look at the size of said weapon, comparatively?

 

 

 

... Yeah. Gorechild looks like a normal battle-axe for Angron, but is basically Dane Axe sized for Khârn.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Gederas

[Hit0k1ri]

Primarchs > Custodes > Thunder Warriors > Marines > mortals.

[USNCenturion]

I just thought about Professor Hulk from Avengers Endgame; for some reason he fit seamlessly into that narrative and with other characters. He might lie between an Astartes and a Primarch, but that can make Primarch/human interactions more believeable for me in my head when reading novels.

 

That’s actually a really good comparison and I think I just resolved in my head how a Primarch can interact in a smooth way with people half their size.

[Karhedron]

So for anyone still bothered by Sangunius and the apple....

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Good one Karhedron - well played :D

[Marshal Rohr]

So for anyone still bothered by Sangunius and the apple....

 

Visual torture.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

8 feet is larger than life

See my post on the last page. 8' isn't larger than humans can get (though it often takes genetic abnormalities) in real life so...

 

 

Mate, that's not old lore. Thar's current, active lore. Space Marines are canonically, ON AVERAGE, [redacted] in Power Armour.

I copied this from the thread you linked. I’ve seen exactly one hard number in a codex, updated in 2019, and it’s not what you gave. So quote it, please. What’s the sentence that makes that canonical? I’ve just never seen this number you gave and it’s so strange that I have never heard of it or seen it but have seen a different one.

Okay, so I was off. HOWEVER, the only generally confirmed figure for heights was for the Custodians with the note that they are generally 9' to 9 1/2ft tall and typically this means they "stand a full head and shoulders above a typical space marine". This isn’t exact by any means but that puts a space marine in the 7-8ft typical region. Dan Abnett typically writes space marines as 8ft tall on average, though Abaddon was at least 10ft in Horus Rising since he stands closer to Horus in height than his brothers.

 

Primaris are generally described as slightly taller rather than utterly different to Firstborn, and is stated that the Magnificant (half of the Primarch organ, this is what makes Primaris bigger) has them "often growing up to a Terran foot taller with an equivalent increase in skeleto-muscular mass" compared to firstborn. Which means Primaris are nearly the same height as Custodes. This relevant because: Looking at art of Roboute Guilliman, he towers over even his Primaris - he’s easily 13 to 14ft to that scale and he’s by no means the biggest Primarch, and is described as "average height" by Primarch standards.

 

However, heights in general are kept vague. In Horus Rising, Horus has to kneel down fully to look Garviel Loken directly in the eye. If Loken is 8ft tall (Dan Abnett's standard), that easily puts Horus 14 to 16ft range. The Khan is described as being twice the height of a white Scars legionary, Ferrus is described as "over a metre taller" than a terminator (which means at least 3 feet 4 inches taller). Vulkan is described as the physically largest of the Primarchs (iirc a number given was 20 feet tall in one of the FW Black Books?).

 

Also why not compare a Marine wielding his Primarch's weapon and look at the size of said weapon, comparatively?

 

 

 

... Yeah. Gorechild looks like a normal battle-axe for Angron, but is basically Dane Axe sized for Khârn.

As I said earlier, it doesn’t really matter what the books say, it’s dumb. It’s way too big and it’s unnecessary. Immediately the Primarchs can’t go into parts of their own ship, so I sure hope someone doesn’t hide in their with a weapon capable of killing of killing him when he kneels to peek and see if any bad guys are hiding in there.

[tvih]

The biggest immersion breaker for me is that if the Primarchs really are walking giants, if we take their descriptions at the most literal sense, then the practicality of their size will become an issue. The general human domain of the Imperium will be designed with human proportions in mind. I personally find it silly if a mission had to be called off because the famed Primarch who leads a critical assault can't fit down a side street or through several cramped buildings.

As others mentioned, the Imperium is nothing if not grandiose - plenty of oversized buildings and such. And can't go through a building? A primarch would just go literally through it, if need be. But yeah, furniture etc would be more of a thing, it'd always have to be custom. I seem to recall Guilliman used his "adopted father's" office and even some of the furniture? Not sure if there was mention of modifications.

 

I do feel the art depictions are off compared to my mental image of them, but that's neither here nor there.

 

I like the bit in the story where Angron is musing if he could take on a contemptor, he’s relishing the thought. We know he’s a killing machine against any mortal foe, but this looks like a match-up. This is a better scale than “taking it apart like a child’s toy”, which might be what happens on the tabletop?

Well, on the other hand you have the story where a titan can't stomp him to death. Sure, it was "only" a Warhound and slightly off-balance to begin with if I recall correctly, but that was still just utter nonsense. At that level of strength he could just as well pick up the Contemptor and toss it into orbit with a flick of a wrist.

[Lord Blackwood]

 

The biggest immersion breaker for me is that if the Primarchs really are walking giants, if we take their descriptions at the most literal sense, then the practicality of their size will become an issue. The general human domain of the Imperium will be designed with human proportions in mind. I personally find it silly if a mission had to be called off because the famed Primarch who leads a critical assault can't fit down a side street or through several cramped buildings.

As others mentioned, the Imperium is nothing if not grandiose - plenty of oversized buildings and such. And can't go through a building? A primarch would just go literally through it, if need be. But yeah, furniture etc would be more of a thing, it'd always have to be custom. I seem to recall Guilliman used his "adopted father's" office and even some of the furniture? Not sure if there was mention of modifications.

 

I do feel the art depictions are off compared to my mental image of them, but that's neither here nor there.

 

I like the bit in the story where Angron is musing if he could take on a contemptor, he’s relishing the thought. We know he’s a killing machine against any mortal foe, but this looks like a match-up. This is a better scale than “taking it apart like a child’s toy”, which might be what happens on the tabletop?

Well, on the other hand you have the story where a titan can't stomp him to death. Sure, it was "only" a Warhound and slightly off-balance to begin with if I recall correctly, but that was still just utter nonsense. At that level of strength he could just as well pick up the Contemptor and toss it into orbit with a flick of a wrist.

 

Thats in Betrayer if i remember correctly , Angron does struggle against the warhound titan keeping it from crushing him , its not easy though its a task. 

 

There is another example that Id like to present and thats from Wolfsbane. 

 

Again Papa Russ  is the subject he decides to fight a combat servitor that is built for training Dreadnoughts how to get used to their new bodies. 

 

He does this with no armor or weapons because he needs it to be a challenge. 

 

Im not fretting about these guys being huge  not when they legit do crazy stuff like this. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Space Marines ride motorcycles and that’s okay but Primarchs rekt immersion… :D

[tvih]

Space Marines ride motorcycles and that’s okay but Primarchs rekt immersion…

Uh, well, motorcycles are hardly as "unbelievable" as primarchs, you know ;) 

[Karhedron]

I don't think that looking at other logical or illogical issues in 40K is going to help. Either gigantic Primarchs fit with people's mental images or clash with it. People who are fine with 12'+ Primarchs just won't see it as in issue. Those who can't get on with it will continue to find the idea jarring, no matter what comparisons or justifications are offered.

[Charlo]

 

 

8 feet is larger than life

See my post on the last page. 8' isn't larger than humans can get (though it often takes genetic abnormalities) in real life so...

 

Mate, that's not old lore. Thar's current, active lore. Space Marines are canonically, ON AVERAGE, [redacted] in Power Armour.

I copied this from the thread you linked. I’ve seen exactly one hard number in a codex, updated in 2019, and it’s not what you gave. So quote it, please. What’s the sentence that makes that canonical? I’ve just never seen this number you gave and it’s so strange that I have never heard of it or seen it but have seen a different one.

Okay, so I was off. HOWEVER, the only generally confirmed figure for heights was for the Custodians with the note that they are generally 9' to 9 1/2ft tall and typically this means they "stand a full head and shoulders above a typical space marine". This isn’t exact by any means but that puts a space marine in the 7-8ft typical region. Dan Abnett typically writes space marines as 8ft tall on average, though Abaddon was at least 10ft in Horus Rising since he stands closer to Horus in height than his brothers.

 

Primaris are generally described as slightly taller rather than utterly different to Firstborn, and is stated that the Magnificant (half of the Primarch organ, this is what makes Primaris bigger) has them "often growing up to a Terran foot taller with an equivalent increase in skeleto-muscular mass" compared to firstborn. Which means Primaris are nearly the same height as Custodes. This relevant because: Looking at art of Roboute Guilliman, he towers over even his Primaris - he’s easily 13 to 14ft to that scale and he’s by no means the biggest Primarch, and is described as "average height" by Primarch standards.

 

However, heights in general are kept vague. In Horus Rising, Horus has to kneel down fully to look Garviel Loken directly in the eye. If Loken is 8ft tall (Dan Abnett's standard), that easily puts Horus 14 to 16ft range. The Khan is described as being twice the height of a white Scars legionary, Ferrus is described as "over a metre taller" than a terminator (which means at least 3 feet 4 inches taller). Vulkan is described as the physically largest of the Primarchs (iirc a number given was 20 feet tall in one of the FW Black Books?).

 

Also why not compare a Marine wielding his Primarch's weapon and look at the size of said weapon, comparatively?

 

 

 

... Yeah. Gorechild looks like a normal battle-axe for Angron, but is basically Dane Axe sized for Khârn.

As I said earlier, it doesn’t really matter what the books say, it’s dumb. It’s way too big and it’s unnecessary. Immediately the Primarchs can’t go into parts of their own ship, so I sure hope someone doesn’t hide in their with a weapon capable of killing of killing him when he kneels to peek and see if any bad guys are hiding in there.

 

Mate, have you not seen the SIZE of everything in 30k/ 40k? It's MASSIVE.

 

There is literally no doubt that the flagships especially for the legions would have been made to accommodate huge entities.

[Marshal Rohr]

Every single book mentions how cramped the below decks corridors, hallways, and individual rooms are. It’s in the very same books talking about big primarchs. Or rooms where marines almost hit their heads, meaning Primarchs couldn’t get in. Just because they can walk around the big cathedral part doesn’t mean every crew member has a 1500 sq ft apartment room with 21 foot ceilings, and if they don’t, that’s a major part of imperial construction in space and on the ground space marines and Primarchs just have to kinda ignore to their enemies advantage. It’s just straight up bad world building. There are people in this very thread that don’t understand how MASSIVE an eight foot tall proportionally built person would be.

 

 

Edit: the mountain from Game of Thrones is on 6’9”. He’s not even as a tall as a space marine would be.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Marshal Rohr

[Brother Nathan]

im 6ft, im too tall for norman castles as they were of shorter height. i dip my head. i doubt primarchs would be doing much hab dewlling room clearances that would be more flame thrower work. they arnt needed for that form of work more the absolutely crushing the main vital targets that aught to break moral... to say that thats unbelievable in a game with huge alien monstrosity's and machines that make a primarch look like a pitiful creature... plus its all relative. terminators are more for clearing spacehulks and are big, much of that would would be small tight corridors and yet... 

 

personally im fine with them being a couple feet taller. its more magic than science really but if what they gave the marines increased their size a few feet then id expect that off them, the towering pinnacle of humanity

[USNCenturion]

I was just at the zoo yesterday with my kids, and there was a giraffe pen with a 15 foot measuring stick by the enclosure. While my kids were busy feeding the giraffe, I couldnt help but think about a Primarch measuring up against that stick. Even 10 feet is huge and I don’t think people really realize how big that is.

 

Now I’m not saying I hate the concept, or disagree that the primarchs are special and big and it’s a definite design choice and warp and etc; I’m just thinking that was an odd choice. Not many IPs have main characters who are so much bigger than the rest of their characters and it’s just interesting to me that the primarchs were made to be that way in the lore.

[LameBeard]

Many IPs have “power creep” though. Like the original Superman could only jump over buildings, not fly. Maybe there’s a bit of that here, but Sanguinius taking down a bloodthirster is pretty old lore.