18 replies to this topic

[Helias Tancred]

Subject line says it all. Just another player brand new to Grey Knights. I love their lore, Crowe, read both of his novels, etc ... but how do you use them and what role do they fill? I'm assuming they are short range mortal wound guys because of purifying flame?

 

Thanks

 

 

[librisrouge]

I think Purifiers are some of the most versatile guys in the current codex. They work great as a MW source before charging in with blades drawn (though should probably be paired with rhinos/razorbacks in that case) but they also work well as a shooting unit, since they can have the same number of guns as a purgation squad. Their stratagem even makes them remarkably tough against some foes, giving them a place in the middle of the fray often limited to terminators.

[Mr4Minutes]

My list I want to try is a 10 man squad of 4 incinerators and the rest swords in a rhino. Combat squad at deployment.

Statistically with 2 squads casting purifying flame with the +1, the first unit fails 1/12 of the time. The 2nd squad is 1/6.(I think. Not a mathematician, so I don’t know what the success rate of casting both is) A 3rd squad would fail 1/3 of the time, so I think 2 casts is optimal.

Because they do not get any benefits from brotherhood abilities, I’ve opted for swords as the most all round CC. Purifying Flame is also a short 9” range, so I’ve gone with the 4 Incinerators. Which also have no psychic or strategem support, making them less reliant on any other units or abilities.

[RedemptionNL]

Statistically with 2 squads casting purifying flame with the +1, the first unit fails 1/12 of the time. The 2nd squad is 1/6.(I think. Not a mathematician, so I don’t know what the success rate of casting both is) A 3rd squad would fail 1/3 of the time, so I think 2 casts is optimal.

First cast on a 4 indeed has a 91.66% chance and second cast on a 5 has 83.33%. But the third cast on a 6 has 72.22%, so that's better than the 2/3 (66.67%) you mentioned.

Also, the chance to get both casts off would be then be 91.66% * 83.33% = 76.38%

Edited by RedemptionNL, 11 September 2021 - 04:19 AM.

[casb1965]

With 4 Incinerators in the second squad do they need to cast purifying flame 🔥😂

[Helias Tancred]

For now I have a five man squad, I'm thinking of having two of them carry incinerators?

[war009]

So I built mine like every else 4 incinerators and swords. Luckily I had extra legs to make 2 justicars so I could run 2 5 man squads if I wanted. Since I play for fun they will with ride around in their Land Raider to get close, or drop from the storm Raven with Crowe….ok realistically they will just deep strike and engage the enemy and clear lines with flamer. I do have a 5 man Paladin squad with 2 incinerators and all swords to back them up.

Edited by war009, 11 September 2021 - 08:21 PM.

[Helias Tancred]

So I built mine like every else 4 incinerators and swords. Luckily I had extra legs to make 2 justicars so I could run 2 5 man squads if I wanted. Since I play for fun they will with ride around in their Land Raider to get close, or drop from the storm Raven with Crowe….ok realistically they will just deep strike and engage the enemy and clear lines with flamer. I do have a 5 man Paladin squad with 2 incinerators and all swords to back them up.

 

Nice.

 

So for a five man Purifier squad you think its better to use two incinerators versus just equipping them with two more swords or halberds?

[war009]

So I built mine like every else 4 incinerators and swords. Luckily I had extra legs to make 2 justicars so I could run 2 5 man squads if I wanted. Since I play for fun they will with ride around in their Land Raider to get close, or drop from the storm Raven with Crowe….ok realistically they will just deep strike and engage the enemy and clear lines with flamer. I do have a 5 man Paladin squad with 2 incinerators and all swords to back them up.

Nice.

So for a five man Purifier squad you think its better to use two incinerators versus just equipping them with two more swords or halberds?

Yes otherwise they are elite strike marines but at least they are elite strike marines with two specials

[The Woodsman]

I also think they are pretty versatile and have definitely gotten better in the 9th edition book. I can see the one unit of ten with 4 special weapons being a major elimination threat, good mortal wound output, good firepower and strong melee potential all in one unit - plus there are tons of stratagems to amp them up. I've reassigned my psilencer Purgators as sword-wielding Purifiers who team up with the (newly promoted) Purifier psycannons. My idea is that you deep strike them in in turn two. Between various stratagems you can have them cast at 15", get a -1 to Hit against them, a +1 to Hit on their shooting attacks, and 12 S8 -2 D2 psycannon shots... plus Storm Bolters and Nemesis weapons if they can make a charge. Pair this with a FttF GMDK for increased charge potential, or Draigo for re-rolls, and I find it pretty scary. Should take down a fair ammount of stuff. And "only" costs 4CP to pull off. You could always spend more to cast an extra Smite and be casting on 3d6 to maximise super-Smite and super-Flame potential, but then that's a lot of CP in a single unit. 

 

I do think running multiple units can be done, but granted you're not buffing all of them up and you'd need transports to get them into Purifying Flame range.

 

Not an auto-take in my opinion, Strikes and Interceptors are probably the "better" choices, but there is definitely a place for the purest of Grey Knights, even in a competitive setting.

[Ferrum_Sanguinis]

Figured this would be the place to ask, what is the best weapons to give Purifiers? Obviously the hammer for KotF to take advantage of his 4 attacks, but for the rest I was thinking Halberds. Purifies don't get Hammerhand so no re-rolls to wounds, so in that case I think the S6 of the Halberd is better for getting more wounds in than the extra AP of swords. Falchions don't seem worth considering at all anymore know that they have 3 attacks base. 

[Helias Tancred]

I also think they are pretty versatile and have definitely gotten better in the 9th edition book. I can see the one unit of ten with 4 special weapons being a major elimination threat, good mortal wound output, good firepower and strong melee potential all in one unit - plus there are tons of stratagems to amp them up. I've reassigned my psilencer Purgators as sword-wielding Purifiers who team up with the (newly promoted) Purifier psycannons. My idea is that you deep strike them in in turn two. Between various stratagems you can have them cast at 15", get a -1 to Hit against them, a +1 to Hit on their shooting attacks, and 12 S8 -2 D2 psycannon shots... plus Storm Bolters and Nemesis weapons if they can make a charge. Pair this with a FttF GMDK for increased charge potential, or Draigo for re-rolls, and I find it pretty scary. Should take down a fair ammount of stuff. And "only" costs 4CP to pull off. You could always spend more to cast an extra Smite and be casting on 3d6 to maximise super-Smite and super-Flame potential, but then that's a lot of CP in a single unit. 

 

I do think running multiple units can be done, but granted you're not buffing all of them up and you'd need transports to get them into Purifying Flame range.

 

Not an auto-take in my opinion, Strikes and Interceptors are probably the "better" choices, but there is definitely a place for the purest of Grey Knights, even in a competitive setting.

 

Do you think in 9th that running 10 man units for GK is back to being a real consideration vs everything as combat squads which seemed to become more norm in 8th (at least for other marines like BA, DA, and primaris units)?

[The Woodsman]

 

I also think they are pretty versatile and have definitely gotten better in the 9th edition book. I can see the one unit of ten with 4 special weapons being a major elimination threat, good mortal wound output, good firepower and strong melee potential all in one unit - plus there are tons of stratagems to amp them up. I've reassigned my psilencer Purgators as sword-wielding Purifiers who team up with the (newly promoted) Purifier psycannons. My idea is that you deep strike them in in turn two. Between various stratagems you can have them cast at 15", get a -1 to Hit against them, a +1 to Hit on their shooting attacks, and 12 S8 -2 D2 psycannon shots... plus Storm Bolters and Nemesis weapons if they can make a charge. Pair this with a FttF GMDK for increased charge potential, or Draigo for re-rolls, and I find it pretty scary. Should take down a fair ammount of stuff. And "only" costs 4CP to pull off. You could always spend more to cast an extra Smite and be casting on 3d6 to maximise super-Smite and super-Flame potential, but then that's a lot of CP in a single unit. 

 

I do think running multiple units can be done, but granted you're not buffing all of them up and you'd need transports to get them into Purifying Flame range.

 

Not an auto-take in my opinion, Strikes and Interceptors are probably the "better" choices, but there is definitely a place for the purest of Grey Knights, even in a competitive setting.

 

Do you think in 9th that running 10 man units for GK is back to being a real consideration vs everything as combat squads which seemed to become more norm in 8th (at least for other marines like BA, DA, and primaris units)?

 

 

I think there is a place for 10-man units. I wouldn't run 10-man Strike or Interceptor Squads (unlike with the 8th book I loved 10-man Interceptors for super psybolt salvos), since 5 marines essentially pretty much do the same work (same wounds, more attacks) as a 10-man squad used to, and I think they really shine as MSU that can cover the board and grab objectives, pose multiple threats, etc. However I think stuff like Terminators and Purifiers really benefit from certain single-unit buffs (Steel Heart, Sanctuary, Untainted, psychic onslaught if you've got special weapons, Haloed in Soulfire, etc.) which get exponentially better the more models that are in the unit. I would practically never pay the CP for Steel Heart on a 5-man unit, simply because to me it plays a much more "defensive" role than the offensive 10-man unit. As far as Purifiers go, I'd only run them as 10-man to get access to the weapons on a "better" unit than Purgators. Plus Purifiers don't take up heavy slots. Interceptors as 10-man in Rapiers are definitely strong as well. And I'm playing around with a Preservers list that is built around two 10-man Terminator units which benefit hugely from the Brotherhood power when backed up by an Apothecary. Don't want to go off topic so I'll keep it to this. But elite units like Purifiers definitely benefit from being 10-man in some circumstances too (Paladins as well for that matter, Armored Resilience + Hammerhand with Psychic Focus - well extra power strat, makes for a nasty unit). 

[Captain Coolpants]

Does having certain stratagem and the purifying flame, really make up for the loss of brotherhood traits and such?

What are the main differences between having a 10 man purgation squad, with 4 incinerators compared to purifiers of the same load out?

[The Woodsman]

I guess it really only is Purifying Flame and Untainted... I could see maybe a Purgator equivalent doing better as Swordbearers with the +1 to Wound power (or is it +1 to Hit I forget?). Then you'd be getting more out of them. But I find the ability to lay down high mortal wound damage, follow up with quality firepower and potentially charge in and finish off your target in combat is pretty significant. Bear in mind you get both Flame and Smite, so can potentially do 2d3 + d6 mortal wounds to a target if you're using the strat. At minimum 3 + d3. 

[war009]

IMHO the 10man purgation squad would be more pts effective because of the Heavy spot vs the elite spot. Elites we have tons of options to choose between so taking a 10man squad would be cheaper and free up the elites slot

[Ferrum_Sanguinis]

IMHO the 10man purgation squad would be more pts effective because of the Heavy spot vs the elite spot. Elites we have tons of options to choose between so taking a 10man squad would be cheaper and free up the elites slot

 

Purgation has to compete with Dreadknights, and people always try to get as many of those in as possible.

[Mr4Minutes]

It seems kind of apples and oranges to me. I’m taking purifiers for the purifying flame psychic power. The flamers are there because they’re a )free and b ) lacking brotherhood buffs, I don’t feel I’m losing as much by swapping out the CC weapons.

Purgation squads seem to CP intense to make efficient in a CP starved army.

Edit: removed unintended smile face

Edited by Mr4Minutes, 14 September 2021 - 05:34 PM.

[The Woodsman]

Yeah I don't usually struggle with Elite slots... with 6 in a battalion detachment and me not taking Paladins and all the supporting characters any more means I have plenty free. Heavy slots I think I best used for DKs tbh. I don't know that Brotherhood buffs are make or break on CC weapons... not that many Brotherhoods really buff combat output, except of course Rapiers, and Purifiers are still Core and can get re-rolls from either Draigo or a Chaplain.