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More Sisters Models


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59 replies to this topic

#51
SufficientAnonymity

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It also shows the squad with full autoguns


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#52
ThePenitentOne

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I wonder what the delivery system for their 40k rules will be. White Dwarf?

 

None of the stuff in the Octarius box had 40k rules, but those units are similar enough to existing codex entries- novitiates are brand new.



#53
sitnam

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I wonder what the delivery system for their 40k rules will be. White Dwarf?

None of the stuff in the Octarius box had 40k rules, but those units are similar enough to existing codex entries- novitiates are brand new.

I mean, they did have 40k rules, because both veteran guardsmen and Kommandos were pre-existing in the codex.

I bet they might include 40k data sheets in the box, similar to BSF. That wasn’t necessary for the Octarius box

Edited by sitnam, 20 September 2021 - 07:18 PM.

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#54
Slasher956

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These girls could be objectively worse than Guardsman, and 8 ppm and we'd still take them, because if all you want is someone to babysit an objective, they are better for the job than an 11 ppm sister.

 Easy answer... they arent core or <Order> & dont get ObSec... or they only get ObSec at max size

I


Dyspraxic & Dyslexic  - So I might not write/explain what I think I have as clearly as intended to.... 

 

I'm confused... what side of the fence am I on???

 

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#55
Tokugawa

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Honestly say, BS2+ and BS5+ don't make much difference when the model is equipped with auto pistol…

#56
tvih

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These girls could be objectively worse than Guardsman, and 8 ppm and we'd still take them, because if all you want is someone to babysit an objective, they are better for the job than an 11 ppm sister.

 Easy answer... they arent core or <Order> & dont get ObSec... or they only get ObSec at max size

I

 

Well, fluff-wise they technically shouldn't get <Order>, since they haven't been assigned to one at that point from my understanding, so I could see that being the case. ObSec? Well, lacking it would indeed make them less desirable, though they could still hold backline objectives. It's a possibility.

 

Honestly say, BS2+ and BS5+ don't make much difference when the model is equipped with auto pistol…

Which, once again, is where the autogun comes in. No, it's still not superb, but it's not like a bolter is a great weapon in-game either.



#57
Beams

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These girls could be objectively worse than Guardsman, and 8 ppm and we'd still take them, because if all you want is someone to babysit an objective, they are better for the job than an 11 ppm sister.

 Easy answer... they arent core or <Order> & dont get ObSec... or they only get ObSec at max size

I

 

Well, fluff-wise they technically shouldn't get <Order>, since they haven't been assigned to one at that point from my understanding, so I could see that being the case. ObSec? Well, lacking it would indeed make them less desirable, though they could still hold backline objectives. It's a possibility.

 

Honestly say, BS2+ and BS5+ don't make much difference when the model is equipped with auto pistol…

Which, once again, is where the autogun comes in. No, it's still not superb, but it's not like a bolter is a great weapon in-game either.

 

 

A bolter is still miles better -- str 4 vs str 3 is a big cliff.

Also, sisters have a surprising amount of buffs to bolt, flame and melta weapons, and very few that buff autoguns.

IF the noviatiates are core, the only buffs they'll get is reroll ones from canoness/palatine.

 

And SoB BS squads can be surprisingly durable against small arms fire, especially once you get to cover for that sweet 2+ save, and can get to 5-20 man squads, so there isn't much use to these guys.

Crusaders/DCA are smaller and cheaper action monkeys, and are effectively slotless.

 

I can see taking 1 max sized squad as a fun, this is a cool unit! or 1 min sized squad as a "well, this saves me 20 pts", but I don't really see anyone taking these as their only obsec.

 

LASGUN vs BS in Cover:

.5 to hit, .5 to wound, .16 go through 2+ save, means 25 lasgun shots vs Sisters in cover to kill 1. 

VS

.5 to hit, .5 to wound, .33 go throu 3+ save, means 12 lasgun shots vs 3+ (Noviaties in cover if 4+ base) to kill 1

VS

.5 to hit, .5 to wound, .5 go throu 4+ save, means 8 lasgun shots vs 4+ (Noviaties in cover if 5+ base) to kill 1

 

Bolt Rifle vs BS

.66 to hit, .66 to wound, .66 go through from 5+ Save (-1AP), means 3.5 bolt rifle shots vs Noviaties in Open (If 4+ save) to kill 1.

.66 to hit, .66 to wound, .5 go through from 4+ Save (-1 AP), means 5 Bolt Rifle shots vs Sisters in Open to kill 1

.66 to hit, .66 to wound, .33 go through from 3+ save (-1AP in cover), means 7 bolt rifle shots vs Sisters in Cover to Kill 1



#58
tvih

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Bolt Rifles can also be -2AP with Tactical Doctrine during turns 2 & 3, at which point the survivability difference when in cover will be smaller, not to mention if a SM player wants your troop gone from an objective, it'll be gone regardless of which unit it is. Negligible difference given the likely points difference. And if you're relying on baseline weapons with no AP to kill ANYTHING beyond grots to begin with, you're gonna be having a bad time. Heck, with ork boyz being T5 now you're not gonna be killing even those much with either weapon - same chance with either.

 

And as far as Sisters' buffs to bolt weapons - that's generally via Defenders of the Faith, Holy Trinity or Blessed Bolts. Of which only the first applies to Boltguns without other weapons in the mix, or being Storm Bolters instead. Or if you're using the Unshakeable Vengeance Minoris conviction, which by far most aren't. Buffs to other weapons only matter if you're using those - competitively folks tend to run bare Battle Sister squads from what I've seen, and casually it doesn't matter either way. The rare case where I would even considering using DotF offensively would be in rapid fire range with a squad of 10+ models, which I normally wouldn't be using to begin with, or preferably with a Dominion Storm Bolter squad. And assuming Novitiates are 4+ BS even if they had boltguns? Yeah nah. Better uses for 2CP in most cases. Besides, Novitiates may get a stratagem or two of their own, who knows.

 

In the end it really does mostly come down to whether the Novitiates can be taken in squads of 5 or not, and of course the points cost. Doing specific math on them won't help that much before having all the info.



#59
Beams

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Bolt Rifles can also be -2AP with Tactical Doctrine during turns 2 & 3, at which point the survivability difference when in cover will be smaller, not to mention if a SM player wants your troop gone from an objective, it'll be gone regardless of which unit it is. Negligible difference given the likely points difference. And if you're relying on baseline weapons with no AP to kill ANYTHING beyond grots to begin with, you're gonna be having a bad time. Heck, with ork boyz being T5 now you're not gonna be killing even those much with either weapon - same chance with either.

 

And as far as Sisters' buffs to bolt weapons - that's generally via Defenders of the Faith, Holy Trinity or Blessed Bolts. Of which only the first applies to Boltguns without other weapons in the mix, or being Storm Bolters instead. Or if you're using the Unshakeable Vengeance Minoris conviction, which by far most aren't. Buffs to other weapons only matter if you're using those - competitively folks tend to run bare Battle Sister squads from what I've seen, and casually it doesn't matter either way. The rare case where I would even considering using DotF offensively would be in rapid fire range with a squad of 10+ models, which I normally wouldn't be using to begin with, or preferably with a Dominion Storm Bolter squad. And assuming Novitiates are 4+ BS even if they had boltguns? Yeah nah. Better uses for 2CP in most cases. Besides, Novitiates may get a stratagem or two of their own, who knows.

 

In the end it really does mostly come down to whether the Novitiates can be taken in squads of 5 or not, and of course the points cost. Doing specific math on them won't help that much before having all the info.

 

I don't know. My only real point is these sisters aren't nearly as good as battle sisters, and everyone else's points basically just boil down to: STATS DON'T MATTER FOR TROOPS

 

Which I really don't understand, but hey, whatever.


Edited by Beams, Today, 02:08 AM.


#60
Bonzi

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Bolt Rifles can also be -2AP with Tactical Doctrine during turns 2 & 3, at which point the survivability difference when in cover will be smaller, not to mention if a SM player wants your troop gone from an objective, it'll be gone regardless of which unit it is. Negligible difference given the likely points difference. And if you're relying on baseline weapons with no AP to kill ANYTHING beyond grots to begin with, you're gonna be having a bad time. Heck, with ork boyz being T5 now you're not gonna be killing even those much with either weapon - same chance with either.

And as far as Sisters' buffs to bolt weapons - that's generally via Defenders of the Faith, Holy Trinity or Blessed Bolts. Of which only the first applies to Boltguns without other weapons in the mix, or being Storm Bolters instead. Or if you're using the Unshakeable Vengeance Minoris conviction, which by far most aren't. Buffs to other weapons only matter if you're using those - competitively folks tend to run bare Battle Sister squads from what I've seen, and casually it doesn't matter either way. The rare case where I would even considering using DotF offensively would be in rapid fire range with a squad of 10+ models, which I normally wouldn't be using to begin with, or preferably with a Dominion Storm Bolter squad. And assuming Novitiates are 4+ BS even if they had boltguns? Yeah nah. Better uses for 2CP in most cases. Besides, Novitiates may get a stratagem or two of their own, who knows.

In the end it really does mostly come down to whether the Novitiates can be taken in squads of 5 or not, and of course the points cost. Doing specific math on them won't help that much before having all the info.

I don't know. My only real point is these sisters aren't nearly as good as battle sisters, and everyone else's points basically just boil down to: STATS DON'T MATTER FOR TROOPS

Which I really don't understand, but hey, whatever.
Well, in short terms 40K meta in 9th Ed is a trading game. If you want to win you have to hold one or more objectives in the center. 40K has also amped everyone's damage to crazy levels so basically anything you run onto a center objective for primary or secondary points is probably going to die in your opponents turn. Most sisters armies don't bring troops to do killing, they bring them to capture points and sacrifice as pawns. If these new sisters are troops and are cheaper than basic sisters it doesn't really matter what their stats are...they're cheaper, thus better sacrificial pawns. They get points for primary and secondaries for less cost and let you bring more of the dangerous units you need to kill your opponents pawns.

This isn't a universal truth of course. Argent Shroud gets milage out of Sisters with a multimelta, Valorous Heart can be durable enough to hold without being wiped out with enough buffs. Armies like TSons or Death Guard lean into durability and staying power, but even they rely on Tzangors and Poxwalkers to put bodies on points.

Sisters in general are cheap glass cannons, a cheaper sacrificial unit would be a competitive boost for us.

Edited by Bonzi, Today, 03:15 AM.

Xeno

Necrons

 

Imperium

Astra/Tempestus Militarum - Vostroyans

Blood Angels - Hands of Sacrifice

 

Traitor Legions

Emperors Children - Making Noise Marines Scream





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