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GK Faq out


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15 replies to this topic

#1
Skywrath

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Let's take another well deserved nerf why don't we (heavy sarcasm) smile.png

 

https://www.warhamme...D2PkJwV3jte.pdf

 

Discuss. I feel like we didn't need this.


Edited by Skywrath, 17 September 2021 - 12:29 PM.

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#2
casb1965

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So the only real change I see there is the max 6 MW so not really a biggie as it only affects MW caused by Tide of Convergence  not any other source and to be honest if you're on your seventh 6 to wound that is some hellish dice rolling.



#3
Skywrath

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So the only real change I see there is the max 6 MW so not really a biggie as it only affects MW caused by Tide of Convergence  not any other source and to be honest if you're on your seventh 6 to wound that is some hellish dice rolling.

 

That's the flipside of that argument - how often do you see that? By that logic this change is mostly pointless, especially if you run multiple 5m PA units. At the very least that makes the rapiers argument for a brotherhood even less tempting. 


Edited by Skywrath, 17 September 2021 - 01:05 PM.


#4
Gnomeo

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Interestingly it's only the mortal wounds from tide of convergence that are limited not from words of power.
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#5
Biscuittzz

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Yep not much of a nerf considering it's working off averages. You'd have to be rolling incredibly hot to notice it as a nerf. Prevailing opinion on reddit is that it doesn't affect words of power.

 

So rolling 7 6's while under ToC and Words of Power would generate 13 MWs. 6 from convergence and 7 from words.


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#6
Mr4Minutes

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Disappointed with the change to the litany strat. It’s how I expected gw to rule, but I was hoping it would be any litany not cast. For 2 cp it would add consistency and flexibility if you could cast any litany. Now you’re pretty much only gonna see word of power used, because the others are for more niche situations.

#7
angrom

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A bit sad as well, I hope they would fix the wording so that we can try to cast for free in command phase and the stratagem working as a fail safe in any phases.
I find this stratagem a bit overcosted when we consider everything else being overcosted as well.
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#8
Corvus Fortis

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I don't feel ToC nerf like something we needed, really. Statistically, we were going about 6-8 MW anyway with 10-man unit with swords and hammerhand/symphonic strike.

 

Chaplain is the same. 2 CP to chant any litany was redeeming strat for most of our stuff. Why give only 1 litany per chaplain and than limit it even more? It is clear that players choose one best of them and will use only it. TBH, now I think about dropping chaplain at all. GMNDK, Draigo and Libby will be my trio.

 

All in all, I don't think it will affect our winrate at all. The only problem with ToC is when you charge something big like a knight with multiple units and want to fish for those mortal wounds. We shred infantry to pieces with sheer melee power anyway.


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#9
The Woodsman

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I also don't see it affecting the global win rate of Grey Knights. Its not a huge nerf, might open up some space for other Brotherhoods now that Rapiers can't fish for unlimited MWs. That being said as mentionned averages should pan out around the 6-wound cap anyways so... 

 

As far as the Chaplain is concerned, I was also expecting this change. Bear in mind GK Chaps are also psykers, so gain extra utility over regular SM Chaps. I still think the best use for a Chaplain is the +1 to cast Blessings (a lot of our key buffs come from Blessings) and I think combining that and Psychic Locus can be key to psychic reliability. As mentioned in another thread our Warp Charges are sometimes quite high. 3+ is a little swingy, but you can use the strat on the turn you need the buff and roll the rest of the time. ToC and WoP is still gonna be viscious though. Most stuff will crumple after that many mortal wounds plus any regular damage. Even Morty only has 18 Wounds guys ;) 

 

All in all not a nerf in my opinion, just a slight re-direction that might just favor a greater diversity of lists/Brotherhood picks.


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#10
Corvus Fortis

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Bear in mind GK Chaps are also psykers, so gain extra utility over regular SM Chaps.

 

 

 

Which doesn't matter at all, because every single unit in our army is a psyker. I can take Brother Captain and with the same psychic power get better melee and constant reroll bubble. We also lack the option to take chapter chaplain to both get additional litany and make it more reliable. Knowing two litanies from the list was absolutely fair and shouldn't be nerfed. It doesn't kill chaplain as a unit, since words of power+ToC is still a very powerfull combo - but it makes him super-straightforward. 

 

I don't see much value in +1 to blessing casts. Units which need to cast something are not always withing 6". And 2 CP, which you have to spend instead of chanting, is just too much of a tax. BC wins here, because his strat affects all casts of his brotherhood. 

 

But, to be honest, I would just stack all important casts on single character - Draigo or Librarian - and triple-dice them just for 1 CP. Way better investment. 

 

I don't really think, that the change forces other brotherhoods either - rapiers still have symphonic strike and 6's to hit = additional hit strat which both too good to ignore. 

 

It just amuses me for how much DE raveged the meta and only received a slight nerf after like almost half a year after release, but we were struck with a nerf hammer immediately. 


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#11
The Woodsman

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Which doesn't matter at all, because every single unit in our army is a psyker. I can take Brother Captain and with the same psychic power get better melee and constant reroll bubble. We also lack the option to take chapter chaplain to both get additional litany and make it more reliable. Knowing two litanies from the list was absolutely fair and shouldn't be nerfed. It doesn't kill chaplain as a unit, since words of power+ToC is still a very powerfull combo - but it makes him super-straightforward. 

 

 

Not meaning to say the Chaplain is better pick than other of our HQs, but that a Chaplain with access to two litanies going off on a 2+ (like Masters of Sanctity) plus a psychic power would have been a bit much if priced the same as other SM Chaps. I think the problem with the strat was that it essentiallt meant the Chap knew all 6 litanies, which is a bit too much. Maybe keep it as is and make it once per game or something. As it is its still not bad though a little expensive. And to be fair 3+ isn't bad, should still go off most of the time, its just not a given. 

 

I'm working on a Preservers list that really requires a whole bunch of Blessings to go off in order to get its defences up and play that super-tanky long game, and combining both bonuses could help that in a big way. But I agree that if needing to choose between the two, the Bro-Cap is better. 

 

We'll see about Brotherhoods, the Rapiers definitely have the most obvious strengths, but personally I think it is kind of a one-trick pony. Clearly GW have decided it was to strong (don't know why they are so in love with DE anyways) though it probably wasn't and the FAQ doesn't really change much in practice IMO. To be fair I think players are going to find an answer to the MW burst fairly soon. Again, not saying its not good, it is, it really is. 


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#12
Corvus Fortis

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, but that a Chaplain with access to two litanies going off on a 2+ (like Masters of Sanctity) plus a psychic power would have been a bit much if priced the same as other SM Chaps

 

 

Just for a reference - DA terminators are priced like any other terminators + have in-built transhuman physiology.  Besides SM prayers are plain better than ours and they have better targets for them. 

 

3+ isn't bad, should still go off most of the time, its just not a given. 

 

 

3+ is a very bad roll, if it decides if something important will happen in the whole next battle round.  Statistically, you will fail it 2 times in 5 turns game. Which is, IMO, very unreliable. The other thing is more important - will it go off when you really need it? There's no need in words of power, if target unit is not in combat. 

 

I think the problem with the strat was that it essentiallt meant the Chap knew all 6 litanies, which is a bit too much. Maybe keep it as is and make it once per game or something.

 

 

We are very CP-hungry army. There's a couple of "button" stratagmes which we want every turn. It won't happen more often that once per game any way. It just gave us a bit more variety. I miss the days when we could chose casts/strats before the game. But the games have to be as fast as possible nowdays, so GW sacrifices more and more for this goal.



#13
The Woodsman

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, but that a Chaplain with access to two litanies going off on a 2+ (like Masters of Sanctity) plus a psychic power would have been a bit much if priced the same as other SM Chaps

 

 

Just for a reference - DA terminators are priced like any other terminators + have in-built transhuman physiology.  Besides SM prayers are plain better than ours and they have better targets for them. 

 

Yeah DA terminators are probably overpowered, at least for their cost. But their Chaplain still isn't a Chaplain. I get what you mean about each unit being a psyker so who cares if the Chaplain is, but Dominus powers are still only available to Characters and you still only get 3 HQs in a Batallion - plus stuff like the GM lost a cast and with so many Psychic actions available to us now I don't think its something to look over. I'm not trying to say there's proper balance between GK Chaplains and other SM Chaplains, there isn't. But I don't think they are garbage either. 

3+ isn't bad, should still go off most of the time, its just not a given. 

 

 

3+ is a very bad roll, if it decides if something important will happen in the whole next battle round.  Statistically, you will fail it 2 times in 5 turns game. Which is, IMO, very unreliable. The other thing is more important - will it go off when you really need it? There's no need in words of power, if target unit is not in combat. 

 

Still going off 3/5 turns and you can still use the strat when you absolutely need it to go off, that option isn't gone, your Chaplain just can't know all the litanies now.

 

I think the problem with the strat was that it essentiallt meant the Chap knew all 6 litanies, which is a bit too much. Maybe keep it as is and make it once per game or something.

 

 

We are very CP-hungry army. There's a couple of "button" stratagmes which we want every turn. It won't happen more often that once per game any way. It just gave us a bit more variety. I miss the days when we could chose casts/strats before the game. But the games have to be as fast as possible nowdays, so GW sacrifices more and more for this goal.

 

I for one am not a huge fan of those auto-pop every turn strats. I played the game before strats existed, and while I think they are cool and have a place in the game, sometimes I feel like a lot of overpowered combos come from a series of strats employed on a given unit and/or a given time that make a certain play really skewed and for which the opponent has no possible response... not good for the health of the game. Having a strat that enables a character to have acess to each and every possibility removes player choice and tactical thinking, also not great for the health of the game.

 

 

 

I'm not trying to say the Chaplain is a super competitive choice, he isn't and probably isn't intended to be. There are better HQ slots available. Still, Words of Power is strong and can be included in a competitive list - you can still smash the CP button and auto-pop Words whenever you need it :)


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#14
Holier Than Thou

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, but that a Chaplain with access to two litanies going off on a 2+ (like Masters of Sanctity) plus a psychic power would have been a bit much if priced the same as other SM Chaps


Just for a reference - DA terminators are priced like any other terminators + have in-built transhuman physiology. Besides SM prayers are plain better than ours and they have better targets for them.

On a somewhat related note, I played my mate’s Thousand Sons last night (with my Orks as I’m currently trying to truescale my GKs) and he used a Stratagem similar to one of ours but just plain better. Considering they were released at the exact same time I don’t understand the reasoning.

Our Stratagem is Sanctified Kill Zone. 2 CP and in the Shooting Phase a Purgation Squad can add +1 to wound rolls against an enemy within half range.

Their Stratagem I think was called Wrath of the Wronged. 2 CP and in the Shooting Phase or Fight Phase any Arcana Astartes unit can add +1 to wound rolls. No restriction on a particular unit or the range. It’s literally our Stratagem but better, for the same CP cost.

#15
Trollbeard

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Yeah, that stratagem replaced “Veterans of the long war” I believe. Which they had all 8th edition also. DG have a similar strat that also replaced veterans as well.

It is straight up better then ours though. But they have had it for a while now.

#16
angrom

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, but that a Chaplain with access to two litanies going off on a 2+ (like Masters of Sanctity) plus a psychic power would have been a bit much if priced the same as other SM Chaps

Just for a reference - DA terminators are priced like any other terminators + have in-built transhuman physiology. Besides SM prayers are plain better than ours and they have better targets for them.
On a somewhat related note, I played my mate’s Thousand Sons last night (with my Orks as I’m currently trying to truescale my GKs) and he used a Stratagem similar to one of ours but just plain better. Considering they were released at the exact same time I don’t understand the reasoning.

Our Stratagem is Sanctified Kill Zone. 2 CP and in the Shooting Phase a Purgation Squad can add +1 to wound rolls against an enemy within half range.

Their Stratagem I think was called Wrath of the Wronged. 2 CP and in the Shooting Phase or Fight Phase any Arcana Astartes unit can add +1 to wound rolls. No restriction on a particular unit or the range. It’s literally our Stratagem but better, for the same CP cost.

If only that, for anyone still wondering wether our codex was outdated from day 1,
Black templar get the same strat as us for chaplain just 100% time better allowing to auto cast a litanie but also to get a second one off.
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