Can new chapters be founded using Black Templar gene seed?

[Medjugorje]

I think they all used to orientate on  a system which were successfull.

 

B2T - On Templars. There were many new authors which took our chapter in some strange way, even in official GW -stuff. This is why I think that comes from when Templars were pretty ignored by GW. As you can see all new stuff is much more close to the old 4th edition codex and with that I expect all possible Templar successors ( like i read in few wiki´s) were strictly treated as IF successors from now on except the new lore about Indomitus will tell us anything has changed. As we can see - even the White Templars which I often read as possible BT successors in 40kpedia are now officially not a Dornian successor anymore. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I have never seen any canon source which refers to Black Templars having Successors, in the same way as the Badab War books did for chapters like the Executioners. 

I'm not saying it's not technically possible for a successor to have a successor, just that nothing has ever stated that that is the case for the Black Templars and any other chapter, and as the Lost Crusades thread shows, you can't trust the 40k WIkis!

[Medjugorje]

I think the wiki article is changed by now. I consider that there was a person which thought "Red Templar" must be a BT successor. 

I know by now that in this article the Red Templars and White Templars are supposing to be successors of the BT. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

There's next to no canon info on the White Templars, and what there is didn't say anything about them being BT successors, now it doesn't even say Dorn Successors. (In a piece of lore that makes no logical sense, how can you learn you're NOT one bloodline, and not take the same test 8 more times to work out which one it is?)

[Gamiel]

There's next to no canon info on the White Templars, and what there is didn't say anything about them being BT successors, now it doesn't even say Dorn Successors. (In a piece of lore that makes no logical sense, how can you learn you're NOT one bloodline, and not take the same test 8 more times to work out which one it is?)

"the test still says 'maybe'. Damnit!" Edited October 3, 2021 by Gamiel

[WARMASTER_]

However going back to the original question, if we leave the argument of whether they are bt or if successors aside, I see no reason that there couldn't be chapters who are directly split from the bt. if we treat them like a crusader order from medieval times (which is what they are based on ofc) there is definite precedent for new orders to be formed from an existing order. The Knights hospitalar were a direct offshoot of the Knights templar. The Teutonic order was formed from the Livonian order. Basically I see no reason why there couldn't be a fluff justification for a Templar "successor" chapter

As a massive history geek I need to slightly correct you here the hospitallers were founded in 1070 and the Templars in 1119 so we’re definitely not an off shoot of them, although admittedly it wasn’t until mid 12th century we see the hospitallers taking up the sword the 3 “main” orders were completely distinct and separate bodies for nearly all of the crusade era

 

The only time the orders (Templar & hospitaller) were offered to merge was when the Templars were on charges of heresy…which they refused, leading to some Templars joining them independently after the order was Dissolved (and burnt alive in some cases) and the hospitallers gaining some of their lands and holding

 

And back to 40K

 

you could definitely say they’re a lost crusade from millennia that’s somehow formed a new chapter, or that they’re simply Sons of Dorn with similar marking and cultures and Zealous tendencies… you could even make your own lore to fit a new chapter and merely use the rules and models, Darren Latham has a great Silver skulls army where he uses all the UM special characters with slightly model conversions as other has said the choice is really your own although also as others has have there’s no current evidence of them having a successor like some other sons

[Spectral Bob]

Thanks for all the feedback. It sounds like the consensus is that while the game would allow me to make a BT successor or clone with different color scheme, the fluff or canon really doesn't have a precedent for doing so. Guess I can go with another IF successor then lol.

[Marshall Bretton]

Thanks for the historical education, seems I need to check the sources I've read as there are definitely some differences from what I thought.

 

In terms of bt successors, whilst there may not be anything currently in the fluff specifically saying it can happen, I am also not aware of anything saying it can't happen either. Also it's worth bearing in mind that templars have not had very much attention from gw for a long time so outside of Armageddon there isn't actually that much developed background out there for us, whilst other chapters have alot in the newer stuff which does add the detail of successors.

 

Finally don't forget we have a new book imminent, and based on previous form I would not be surprised if there was something in there regarding successors or offshoot crusades. After all the sw spent 8 editions with the fluff specifically saying that successors were impossible for them and then primaris dropped and gw immediately created new successors, so it might be worth a bit of patience

[Spinsanity]

I thought the original question was "Is it possible?" not "Has it been done before?"

 

Cannon evidence shows some chapters can be credited as having a parent chapter that is not their original Legion but rather an offshoot chapter. The fact that it has never been done outside the very few chapters Forge World has detailed is simply proof that noone contemplated stating it that way before ForgeWorld did, rather than a proof that only those very few chaters do, imo.

 

Is it possible? Sure, it's your chapter, it's your lore, you do as you please.

 

If you want to discuss the idea with other players who are open to imaginative ways of interpreting the lore, might I suggest you visit The Liber, where such fan creations are encouraged?

Edited October 4, 2021 by Spinsanity

[Medjugorje]

Thanks for the historical education, seems I need to check the sources I've read as there are definitely some differences from what I thought.

 

In terms of bt successors, whilst there may not be anything currently in the fluff specifically saying it can happen, I am also not aware of anything saying it can't happen either. Also it's worth bearing in mind that templars have not had very much attention from gw for a long time so outside of Armageddon there isn't actually that much developed background out there for us, whilst other chapters have alot in the newer stuff which does add the detail of successors.

 

Finally don't forget we have a new book imminent, and based on previous form I would not be surprised if there was something in there regarding successors or offshoot crusades. After all the sw spent 8 editions with the fluff specifically saying that successors were impossible for them and then primaris dropped and gw immediately created new successors, so it might be worth a bit of patience

of course ther could be changes in the lore - or even changes within the lore that BT change their behavior or their structure when Gullyman arrives or when the great rift opens.