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Octarian Cadians Rules preview


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#1
duz_

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Surprised this hasn't been posted already:

https://www.warhamme...off-lascannons/

Not too much to speculate on for future guard codex.

Take aways are, at least cadians are getting some more love.

There's a strat to give conscripts their original rules back and a transhuman physiology lite strat too.
The latter is interesting and I wonder if we'll see this ported over to the main guard codex and not just for Cadians.

Thoughts? Anyone planning to buy this book?
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#2
Jud Cottrell

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I’ll be getting it at some point (mainly for my Tyranids)

I’m sad we won’t be receiving any Krieg content considering they are active in the Octarius system.

Hopefully this is a get by book and the 9th Codex isn’t too far off.
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#3
WarriorFish

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This suggests Guard won't see a new codex any time soon to me? Along with Tyranids seems this may be the current fate for armies GW cares less about tongue.png It's not all bad if it means 9th gets a longer shelf life, but nothing revealed so far feels that exciting. White Shields is a bit late to try and help Conscripts, but better than nothing (and of course, no help to non-Cadian regiments).


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#4
sairence

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With the way their codex release schedule's been messed up, I'm not reading anything into this re timing.

I've been using a unit of conscripts again for a while and now they can have a bit of utility. I'll probably try a Cadian patrol with one or two units and some armour for the redeploy strat. Could see a unit of Hellhounds baiting AT deployment and then swapping flanks as a potentially alright option.

Overall, the stuff's nice but not rocking my world. I imagine we won't get a general redeploy trait in the Codex if it's in here now, which is a shame. Wish this wasn't like locked to Cadians. :P

Also, seriously GW? Literay no one ever said "The planet broke before the Cadians". XD
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#5
Aziras

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Kind of sad that they once again try to get guard to be all about Cadians. The guard identity is that players picked from the regiments and it gets a little messy when you have to do "counts as" all the time. Because nobody in their right mind would ditch 200+ infantry of the "wrong" regiment just to go get cadians instead...

I never liked infantry-heavy lists to start with, no way I will field a horde of conscripts. Filling the board with boodies is not fun for either player.

 

I am also sad to not see more Krieg. With the KT box I had hopes they would bring them out of FW and up to replace the dated Cadians. But this, and especially the way the article is written and worded, pretty much nails the coffin on that dream. They only updated Krieg because they wanted to do the FW book and needed to "legend" a bunch of their stuffs.

 

We just have to play with our tanks on our own a little longer. Or beg our friends to play "thematic" lists so we can actually enjoy playing the game.



#6
Biscuittzz

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With the way their codex release schedule's been messed up, I'm not reading anything into this re timing.

I've been using a unit of conscripts again for a while and now they can have a bit of utility. I'll probably try a Cadian patrol with one or two units and some armour for the redeploy strat. Could see a unit of Hellhounds baiting AT deployment and then swapping flanks as a potentially alright option.

Overall, the stuff's nice but not rocking my world. I imagine we won't get a general redeploy trait in the Codex if it's in here now, which is a shame. Wish this wasn't like locked to Cadians. tongue.png

Also, seriously GW? Literay no one ever said "The planet broke before the Cadians". XD

 

They can't say Guard anymore. teehee.gif



#7
Brainpsyk

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ya, I can't say I'm impressed from that rules preview.  Conscripts are already too expensive, now I have to spend CP on them to give them a Ld of 6?

 

The Cadia Stands! is interesting, as it gives a +1 save against D1, so it's situationally better than Take Cover!.

 

The bonus with Take Aim! is still pretty much irrelevant, as massed lasguns still do nothing, and you have to stand still.  But most of the time we're moving up to an objective, or staging to move to said objective.  

 

And to tune up our lasguns, we have to give up Gunnery Experts re-rolling the dice on all our main guns (Demo Cannons & Manticores, you know, the weapons that actually kill something) to take the Cadian doctrine.  It's just not worth it.



#8
Hiroitchi

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I plan on buying it and I am going to use a conscript heavy list. I see a lot of plus’ for this especially paying 3cp to remove the Raw Recruit ability.

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#9
Warhead01

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My first reaction is yawn, Cadians. 
My second reaction is to wonder if spending pre game cp on conscripts will be worth the cp cost. I have no idea if it even matters in game. 


 


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#10
Hiroitchi

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My first reaction is yawn, Cadians. 
My second reaction is to wonder if spending pre game cp on conscripts will be worth the cp cost. I have no idea if it even matters in game. 


 

 

Actually it does matter, atleast to me since I play conscript horde when not messing with Leman Russ Tank Spam. The main reason is, they can get orders with no issues and depends on how you build the list a 30 man conscript squad via strat that can have a 2+/4++ invul, that can ignore 1-2 rolls, auto pass morale, 120x lasgun shots at 4+ with the capability to have 2 Attacks, and reroll 1s to hit and wound against chaos when generally you can re roll 1s to hit while being on a point is nothing to scoff at. I know its spending CP left and right but.... well its something.


Edited by Hiroitchi, 13 October 2021 - 03:48 AM.

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#11
Warhead01

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My first reaction is yawn, Cadians. 
My second reaction is to wonder if spending pre game cp on conscripts will be worth the cp cost. I have no idea if it even matters in game. 


 

 

Actually it does matter, atleast to me since I play conscript horde when not messing with Leman Russ Tank Spam. The main reason is, they can get orders with no issues and depends on how you build the list a 30 man conscript squad via strat that can have a 2+/4++ invul, that can ignore 1-2 rolls, auto pass morale, 120x lasgun shots at 4+ with the capability to have 2 Attacks, and reroll 1s to hit and wound against chaos when generally you can re roll 1s to hit while being on a point is nothing to scoff at. I know its spending CP left and right but.... well its something.

 

I see what your saying and I do love me some conscripts! 
Now I am wondering if this will increase the cost of conscripts or lock the codex into the Cadian Regiment, maybe they wont do that. They've given a list of chapter traits to do the diy SM chapter thing so I imaging they will do the same for IG regiments again.  
Not playing Cadians this does nothing for me, it's a little sad this wasn't just a generic set of strats and upgrades to help carry Am along a while longer. 
 


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#12
Brainpsyk

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Actually it does matter, atleast to me since I play conscript horde when not messing with Leman Russ Tank Spam. The main reason is, they can get orders with no issues and depends on how you build the list a 30 man conscript squad via strat that can have a 2+/4++ invul, that can ignore 1-2 rolls, auto pass morale, 120x lasgun shots at 4+ with the capability to have 2 Attacks, and reroll 1s to hit and wound against chaos when generally you can re roll 1s to hit while being on a point is nothing to scoff at. I know its spending CP left and right but.... well its something.


Maybe, as a fun list. But let's look at what it costs
- 150 points for a single 30-man conscript squad (450 for 3 squads, 900 points for 6 of them)
- 2 CP for Whiteshields (assuming you take 3 of them)
- 1 Astropath for the auto-pass morale (assuming you get the psychic power off and it wasn't denied)
- 1 Priest for the 2nd attack
- we'll assume it's a Company Commander giving orders

Then, on 1 turn on 1 unit
- 2 CP for the +1 to hit
- 1 CP for Take Cover!
- 1 CP for Cadia Stands!

That's 6 CP and 450 points for.

Now, assuming you get FRFSRF off on all 30 guys (which you won't), that's 120 shots, 60 hits, 20 wounds on MEQ, and 6.666 failed saves, or 3 dead MEQ.

Compare that to 1 LR Demolisher for that ~200 points over the cost of 3 10-man IG squads (non-TC) with 3 HBs and no orders which kills about 5.5 MEQ

It's a neat trick if someone isn't prepared for it, but it will only last 1-2 turns before it runs out of steam as players are used to shifting 20-man necron warrior blobs nowadays, and you're blowing thru all of your CP in 2 turns to keep the 2 conscript units alive.

 

And where are you getting the 4++? 
 


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#13
sairence

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I don't know if I'd run a massive list of Cadians because of this, but adding on a Patrol for 2 blobs might have some play. The biggest benefit isn't leadership, it's reliable orders, and MMMing 2 blobs of 20 or 30 forward at full tilt isn't trivial. And at 335p including the officer the price tag is not too bad. And if you're running that Patrol you might as well throw in Pask if you feel like a bit of dakka on the side. That still leaves you with around 1400p for the rest of your army, more if you leave Pask and doesn't break the bank on CPs, while giving you a nice bit of initial obsec to rush forward.

Is it enough to make more than one unit if Conscripts useful? Honestly not sure.

PS: the mentioned 4++ comes from a Malleus Inquisitor + Psychic Barrier.

Edited by sairence, 13 October 2021 - 04:06 PM.

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#14
Hiroitchi

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I don't know if I'd run a massive list of Cadians because of this, but adding on a Patrol for 2 blobs might have some play. The biggest benefit isn't leadership, it's reliable orders, and MMMing 2 blobs of 20 or 30 forward at full tilt isn't trivial. And at 335p including the officer the price tag is not too bad. And if you're running that Patrol you might as well throw in Pask if you feel like a bit of dakka on the side. That still leaves you with around 1400p for the rest of your army, more if you leave Pask and doesn't break the bank on CPs, while giving you a nice bit of initial obsec to rush forward.

Is it enough to make more than one unit if Conscripts useful? Honestly not sure.

PS: the mentioned 4++ comes from a Malleus Inquisitor + Psychic Barrier.

 

 

Exactly my thought process however, there is more to my line of thought as well. for 3CP I can get a 5+ Conscripts to follow orders and do area denial. I get people take blobs of necron warriors at 20 and the math hammer involved, but I'm crazy enough to try it using this list: http://www.bolterand...on-whiteshield/ I have played a couple of games with it, still curious on the point cost changes if any.


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#15
sairence

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Yeah, I can see that working for clogging things up. Though then we're getting into 100+ infantry territory and personally I need a very good reason to do that. XD

Edited by sairence, 13 October 2021 - 09:15 PM.

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#16
Hiroitchi

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Yeah, I can see that working for clogging things up. Though then we're getting into 100+ infantry territory and personally I need a very good reason to do that. XD


That’s fair, every time I thinking of my conscripts having the opportunity to go up the board close to 24 inches via move move equates to, “the first man in lone gets the rifle. The second gets the ammunition. When the first is killed, the second gets a rifle and shoots.”

To bad ii game terms we’re using cadians and not valhallans. Lol

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#17
Glute

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So question about Cadia Stands.  It states that unmodified 1 and 2's fail for wounds.  Does that apply before any wound roll rerolls?  Example:  Space Marine Lieutenant granting rerolls of 1.  Does this negate his rerolls or does it apply after the rerolls?  (I be corn fused.......)



#18
jarms48

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I’ll be getting it at some point (mainly for my Tyranids)

I’m sad we won’t be receiving any Krieg content considering they are active in the Octarius system.

Hopefully this is a get by book and the 9th Codex isn’t too far off.

 

Yeah, it seems weird DKOK get a box for Octarius but no rules. Then Cadians, which should be becoming less prominent in the setting are getting more focus.


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#19
sairence

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So question about Cadia Stands. It states that unmodified 1 and 2's fail for wounds. Does that apply before any wound roll rerolls? Example: Space Marine Lieutenant granting rerolls of 1. Does this negate his rerolls or does it apply after the rerolls? (I be corn fused.......)


All these transhuman-esque rules ignore any modifiers. So doesn't matter what strength, what modifiers, anything. Even a Vindicares "always wound infantry on a 2+" is overridden by them. Your opponent will always need at least a 3+

Edited by sairence, 14 October 2021 - 09:08 AM.

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#20
duz_

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Well it's confirmed Cadian rules only and oddly inquisition too? :huh:

https://www.warhamme...de-rising-tide/

wN9O25rsa2mT7oOu.jpg

So question about Cadia Stands. It states that unmodified 1 and 2's fail for wounds. Does that apply before any wound roll rerolls? Example: Space Marine Lieutenant granting rerolls of 1. Does this negate his rerolls or does it apply after the rerolls? (I be corn fused.......)


Naturals 1s and 2s. So the Lt reroll of 1s would still be allowed. Reroll aren't modifiers, which tend to add or subtract to the dice result.

Edited by duz_, 14 October 2021 - 12:20 PM.

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#21
Warhead01

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Interesting. Fortification rules, well some of them anyway.  

On the subject of conscripts. Um, looking at the faq, is there any actual reason to use a commissar with them? Only a bit off topic. It just seemed like a good place to ask because we were talking about conscripts up there. 

From the new supplement it seems like the Nidz and the INQ are the real winners, AM maybe not so much over all. 
I'm amazed GW isn't retiring the Cadians for a new plastic regiment. 

Personally I'd like to put points to the white shield strat and roll it into my home brew rule, which I may!

Now I need to learn how to make a PDF..... and make my own codex. 


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#22
mertbl

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Don't conscripts hit on 5s?
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#23
Hiroitchi

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Don't conscripts hit on 5s?

 

yes conscripts hit on 5's but you can use buffs like Psychic Augment from Aradia and Strats like overlapping fire also helps with that.


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#24
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Well it's confirmed Cadian rules only and oddly inquisition too? :huh:

https://www.warhamme...de-rising-tide/

wN9O25rsa2mT7oOu.jpg

So question about Cadia Stands. It states that unmodified 1 and 2's fail for wounds. Does that apply before any wound roll rerolls? Example: Space Marine Lieutenant granting rerolls of 1. Does this negate his rerolls or does it apply after the rerolls? (I be corn fused.......)

Naturals 1s and 2s. So the Lt reroll of 1s would still be allowed. Reroll aren't modifiers, which tend to add or subtract to the dice result.

If you have Re-roll failed and get a 2 and the 2 is sufficient to wound - you can't Re-roll the 2.

It wounded. It just couldn't hurt the enemy.

#25
duz_

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Wording on re rolls has changed significantly even throughout 8th
I believe now the space Marines ones are less restrictive now




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