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Octarian Cadians Rules preview


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#26
jarms48

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Don't conscripts hit on 5s?

 

yes conscripts hit on 5's but you can use buffs like Psychic Augment from Aradia and Strats like overlapping fire also helps with that.

 

 

They're Cadian, so there's a few ways there already. 

 

- RR all Hits with Take Aim and standing still.

- Overlapping Fields for +1. Like you said.

- Lost Relic of Cadia for RR1 to Hit and Wound, or full RR against Chaos.

- Stand still for RR1.


Edited by jarms48, 15 October 2021 - 06:07 AM.

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#27
H311fi5h

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Fun fact: A Tank Commander with Gatekeeper, Hail of Fire, Vengeance for Cadia and Load-Fire-Reload has a 85% chance to oneshot a Plagueburst Crawler and averages around 19 damage against a Chaos Knight (with 4++).



#28
Emicus

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Fun fact: A Tank Commander with Gatekeeper, Hail of Fire, Vengeance for Cadia and Load-Fire-Reload has a 85% chance to oneshot a Plagueburst Crawler and averages around 19 damage against a Chaos Knight (with 4++).


This scares me.

#29
Diagramdude

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Load-Fire-Reload (1CP) is exploding 6’s (1 additional hit; 2 additional hits when you target Monsters or Vehicles) to hit for a Cadian Vehicle with Blast weapons.

Shock Troops (1CP for Infantry/2CP for other), allows a unit that has made a Normal Move count as Remain Stationary during the shooting phase.

Duuuuude finally a tank commander can do a full 10” move again and still fire twice, using the reroll number of shots order and getting reroll 1s from counts as stationary.

I think Pask + Cadian TC with Gatekeeper with two units of 30 conscripts and a platoon commander is a solid patrol at ~750 points depending on tank wargear. Could flesh it out into a battalion and bring in Creed or a company commander and more firepower, but I think the room for two more TCs should still probably be gunnery expert/spotter details demolishers.

And Gifted Commander is so tactically amazing it is probably worth cutting the second full payload manticore. You can aggressively deploy one TC on the line and another one more conservatively. If you go first, bring the conservative one up to the optimal fire lane and if you go second pull the aggressive one back to safety. Incredible.

#30
Hiroitchi

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Played with conscript spam and my opponent quickly found out as did I that it is difficult to get a blob of 30 conscripts off a point.

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#31
Diagramdude

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Jenkins! You're not a conscript, you're a Whiteshield. Now move! Move! Move!



#32
jarms48

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Fun fact: A Tank Commander with Gatekeeper, Hail of Fire, Vengeance for Cadia and Load-Fire-Reload has a 85% chance to oneshot a Plagueburst Crawler and averages around 19 damage against a Chaos Knight (with 4++).

This scares me.

It shouldn’t, cause a demolisher does it better.

The reality is, these additions were pretty bad.

The WT’s are meh. The redeploy one can be okay, mainly to put 3 veteran squads in reserves for free.

The relics are okay. The Sword and Battle Cannon being the better ones. The Pax Cadia would have been nice, until you realise it only works on the stratagems in this book, and only 4 out of the 7 of them. So Kurov’s Aquila is just better.

The stratagems are definitely the best part. Whiteshields could be nice for those infantry Guard players taking 200+ models, it could save them some detachment slots, point tax, and CP. Mini-transhuman is nice. The additional exploding hits on blast weapons is nice too. The count as stationary one is situationally useful. Though I’d probably use it to give a punisher AP-1 or AP-2 if stacked with the tank ace.

Edited by jarms48, 17 October 2021 - 05:42 AM.


#33
Diagramdude

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How do you get the punisher to AP -2 with the tank ace?

Edit: Nevermind, I read shock troops text again


Edited by Diagramdude, 17 October 2021 - 06:22 AM.


#34
H311fi5h

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Fun fact: A Tank Commander with Gatekeeper, Hail of Fire, Vengeance for Cadia and Load-Fire-Reload has a 85% chance to oneshot a Plagueburst Crawler and averages around 19 damage against a Chaos Knight (with 4++).

This scares me.

It shouldn’t, cause a demolisher does it better.

 

 

The problem with demolisher as that they usually die immediately after shooting for the first time. Gatekeeper enables you to outrange certain threats like Mulit-meltas and possibly Entropy cannons/Dark lances. So at least sometimes your TC will be able to fire multiple rounds. Hopefully.

 

All in all this will at least make me try to play guard again.



#35
sairence

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There's a reason why everyone ran the Hammer of Sundrance. It was just good and removed the main drawback of the battlecannon. I can definitely see a Cadian Patrol just to switch the one Demo-TC to that now. Maybe add in Whiteshields and Pask as well, but those are kinda extra, that by cannon is already great.

And yes, Demolishers probably still do more damage, but even with spotter details they're always in danger.

Load-Fire-Reload will be a great strategem to have in the pockey as well.

Edited by sairence, 17 October 2021 - 11:28 AM.

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#36
Brainpsyk

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Played with conscript spam and my opponent quickly found out as did I that it is difficult to get a blob of 30 conscripts off a point.

This is probably siting in the same place as Custodes right now, where people are trying to eek out the MSU, and start to struggle as soon as someone comes in with an extra notch of durability. 



#37
mertbl

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So with the shock troop strat the new hammer of sundrance will be ap3 at 36", Basilisks ap4 at 120" and manticores at ap3 at 60".

"Shock troops" may be the best strat in that book.

#38
Diagramdude

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Ok has anyone read the exact text of Sanctioned Psyker? According to auspex tactics video you gain a WC4 psychic action to issue an order in the psychic phase?! This seems bananas if you can Move Move Move a unit in the psychic phase and then do it again in the shooting phase.

#39
sairence

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The way I understood the review was that the psyker gains voice of command for the turn, not that he issues an order immediately. So would still be subject to the normal timings.
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#40
Jud Cottrell

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I’m half tempted to run my Krieg as Cadians for now!

My artillery would be twice as effective!

Though that feels a bit dirty.
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#41
Brainpsyk

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The way I understood the review was that the psyker gains voice of command for the turn, not that he issues an order immediately. So would still be subject to the normal timings.

Plus the codex states "a unit may only be affected by one order per turn"



#42
H311fi5h

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I’m half tempted to run my Krieg as Cadians for now!

My artillery would be twice as effective!

Though that feels a bit dirty.

 

You're playing a bottom of the barrel army in terms of competitiveness. Doing what you can in order to play closer to the middle of the pack is nothing to be ashamed of.


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#43
jarms48

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I’m half tempted to run my Krieg as Cadians for now!

My artillery would be twice as effective!

Though that feels a bit dirty.

 

Shocktroopers for the +1 AP on a unit of 3 Quad Launcher Batteries is pretty tasty, additional hits on 6's is pretty nice too. Then you have the RR1 from staying still. Then potentially Overlapping Fields for the +1 to Hit. It's not bad, but expensive. 

 

Same thing could be done for Medusa Batteries as well. Though they're really not as efficient as Demolisher Tank Commanders.


Edited by jarms48, 20 October 2021 - 08:18 AM.

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#44
Warhead01

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I’m half tempted to run my Krieg as Cadians for now!

My artillery would be twice as effective!

Though that feels a bit dirty.

 

Shocktroopers for the +1 AP on a unit of 3 Quad Launcher Batteries is pretty tasty, additional hits on 6's is pretty nice too. Then you have the RR1 from staying still. Then potentially Overlapping Fields for the +1 to Hit. It's not bad, but expensive. 

 

Same thing could be done for Medusa Batteries as well. Though they're really not as efficient as Demolisher Tank Commanders.

 

I'd probably pick somethin with indirect fire myself. Especially fi the demolisher already had other available buffs. 

I am surprised that GW  would let these new strats and whatnots help forge world artillery. As far as I know that's a little unusual.  


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#45
Jud Cottrell

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H311fi5h. Thanks, I now feel free to go for it! I’d like to play my army as intended but like you say
they just won’t do the job!

Jarms48, cheers, I don’t currently have any Quadlaunchers but I do have
Earthshaker and Medusa Carriages. Plus some Heavy Mortars.


I’m hopeful we don’t have to wait too long for Krieg forces to get the rules
we desperately need to play as our own faction.

Thanks again for the great advice, I’ll get the book and see what I come up with!

#46
Emicus

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Fun fact: A Tank Commander with Gatekeeper, Hail of Fire, Vengeance for Cadia and Load-Fire-Reload has a 85% chance to oneshot a Plagueburst Crawler and averages around 19 damage against a Chaos Knight (with 4++).

This scares me.
It shouldn’t, cause a demolisher does it better.

The Gatekeeper (battle cannon) has range: table whereas the demolished has range: free charge.

A relic and a couple stratagems catapults a 195 point tank into 400 point lord of war killing territory. That's scary, but it's mainly because of the range. Hell the manticores are crying in their cups

#47
jarms48

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The Gatekeeper (battle cannon) has range: table whereas the demolished has range: free charge.

A relic and a couple stratagems catapults a 195 point tank into 400 point lord of war killing territory. That's scary, but it's mainly because of the range. Hell the manticores are crying in their cups

 

 

I mean, the only thing Gatekeeper beats an FP Manticore with is BS3+ and shot RR. Manticore has S10, is cheaper, and has no LOS shooting. 

 

Demolishers can be hidden behind obscuring or LOS blocking terrain. Could be bubble wrapped by Guardsmen, Conscripts, Bullgryns, etc. Then you either move them 5 inch or the full 10 inch, where you can now pop Shocktroopers on them for double shots. As I said you have to weigh the options. Gatekeeper is definitely one of the better regular Guard relics we have.  



#48
sairence

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Having used Gatekeeper yesterday after ages running Demolishers only...it's so nice to be able to just sit back with at least one of my TCs and still reliably remove Marines.

Lock-Fire-Reload is excellent.
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#49
Diagramdude

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The key thing about comparing Gatekeeper to FP manticore is the Gatekeeper is a relic, so instead of sacrificing your WL trait to take two FP manticores you can take one FP manticore, take a warlord trait and still have a second high output 3D weapon from Gatekeeper. And you can juice Gatekeeper up to AP -3 within 36” with shock troops with the added bonus of letting your tank commander move full distance and still natively reroll ones, allowing him to order himself to reroll number of shots on each d6 of his 2d6 shots, significantly better compared to the single gunnery experts reroll for the 2d6 manticore.

Pask, three tank commanders and a FP manticore w HK is 955 points before sponson upgrades. Personally I’d split out two of the TCs into a gunnery/spotter detachment and probably have the manticore there as well since I prefer reroll shots over reroll 1s, especially since the manticore has a dedicated stratagem for +1 to hit so doesn’t really need overlapping fields of fire. The third TC can take Gatekeeper and fill the 3 HQ slots with Pask and either Creed for +2CP or a company commander with the Gifted Commander trait.

#50
Brainpsyk

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Since it's a relic, sacrifice your WL trait for 2 FP Manticores (1 CP), and take the Gatekeeper (1 CP).  Then upgrade your Battallion to an Emperor's fist (1 cp) and take the Hammer of Sunderance (2 cp), then start the game with 0 CP and wonder why we have no CP to re-rolls all those 1's to wound... huh.png






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