New DW Strike Force Thoughts

[L30n1d4s]

I have been going over the new rules and Strats available with the Deathwatch "Army of Renown" available in Warzone: Octarius and here are my initial thoughts --

 

 

1) The new rules that allow a DW Strike Force to change to a new Space Marine Chapter Tactic/Successor Tactic every Battle Round is a tremendously flexible ability, giving a very high ceiling for the most skilled DW commanders. For example, if there is an instance where you select the White Scars CT, then the whole army gets Advance and Charge/Fall Back and charge for free, giving the force incredible mobility for a turn. Alternatively, if the force needs to stand still and shoot, taking Dark Angel tactics gives you access to BS2+ for the whole army for a turn. If you need to maximize your close combat for a turn, then giving the whole force +1 to wound in melee/+1" to charges from Blood Angels is amazing. Even durability can be significantly boosted, with 6+++ from Iron Hands, free Cover from Raven Guard, or ignoring AP-1 from Salamanders for a turn.

 

 

2) The new Sergeant upgrade Strat (give a Sgt +1 Wound and a free WL Trait before the game) can also be amazing. For durability, upgrade a Heavy Intercessor Sgt with this Strat, the Iron Resolve WL Trait, and Artificer Armour... he now has 5W, T5, Sv2+/5++, a 6+++ FNP, access to Transhuman, and, if he ever does die, can be resurrected by an Apothecary with full wounds. Alternatively, you can go full "mini-Smash Captain" with a Watch Sergeant with Xenophase Blade (master-crafted for Dmg2), Storm Shield, Imperium Sword WL Trait, and the BA Chapter Tactic activated... that yields 5 x S6 AP-4 Dmg 2 attacks with +1 to wound on the charge and ignoring all Invul saves (Succubus better look out!). You can even do a "force multiplier" build with an Infiltrator Sgt who takes the Phobos "Fire and Fade" WL Trait and keeps his Kill Team shooting and then moving back into cover all game long.

 

3) Some of the other three new Strats are better than others, but for 3 CP letting an Aquila Kill Team auto wound against any target is a pretty amazing ability to have in the back pocket. Just for reference, a Proteus Kill Team with 9 Combi-Flamer Vets and a JP Vanguard Vet with 2 Hand Flamers coming in from Deep Strike (or jumping out of a Black Star) does an average of 48 bolter/flamer hits... with auto wounds using this Strat, that's 48 wounds, with AP-1 for the Tactical Doctrine, you are doing 32 wounds against 4+ armor units, 24 wounds against 3+ armor units, 16 wounds against 2+ armor units, and even very significant damage to T7/T8 Vehicles and Monsters, if you target them, for that single shooting phase. Once that strike is over, they still can continue to shoot with flamers and SIA bolters, use massed overwatch to deny charges, grab Objectives, fall back and shoot (thanks to the Vanguard Veteran), etc.

Edited October 19, 2021 by L30n1d4s

[Duke Danse Macabre]

There’s allot of good stuff in it which rewards troop builds which is good.

The downside is the meta players will see DW as all marines for the next few months and abuse the hell out of it.

 

I think the trick is going to be keeping survivable units which are multi role whilst still being highly manuverable without costing the world.

Using these rules combined with mixed kill teams employing jump vets, bike and terminators respectively with deep strike strats, beacon Angelis and teleport homers will be key.

For example if you forgo the combi Flamers and vet and rely on a more mundane transport option like a rhino you could have 10 shotguns  for 200 which is 10d6 auto hits at 8 inches which is better from a rhino/corvus or 20 damage 2 shots which will be -2 in assault doc, or save the cp and get a metal box for screening if you want for 280 points against 257, 23 more points to save a cp and get a durable model to shield your troops is a good investment in my eyes.

[Smoke Frog]

It would be a cool way to run deathwatch as a 90% infantry force sans dreadnoughts! 

 

I like the idea of chapter tactics applying to a whole force at once, that seems like great fun. 

[GrinNfool]

The way vigil works is very vague... RAW its selected on a per unit basis, but the selection used can't be repeated by any squad, as they are two seperate bullet points. The wording says nothing about applying a tactic to the whole army... each unit is granted the ability to "at the start of the battle round you can choose a different chapter or successor tactic at the start of each battle round, THIS UNIT uses that has that tactic til the beginning of the next battle round." with the 2nd bullet point stating no choice can be repeated during the game.

 

RAI... you could assume its supposed to apply to the army, or you could assume its supposed to be essentially free uses of brotherhood for the benefit.  I will say though if it is for the entire army the ability is... a lot less good unless you design the army completely combat or something.  Will be curious how the FAQ handles the actual intent.

Edited October 19, 2021 by GrinNfool

[angrom]

Is there a consensus if the autowound strat would work on units that auto hit like flamers?

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Is there a consensus if the autowound strat would work on units that auto hit like flamers?

As long as it’s part of an Aquila kill team then yes it will, very brutal against the right things, even knights and Morty.

[superwill]

I haven’t fully seen the new book, but have read some reviews. Haven’t seen anyone point this out. Hoping there’s something I haven’t seen yet.

 

So, each turn we replace our chapter tactic with another chapters. But how does this work with the kill team “specialisms”? If I’m paying 30 points to make a kill team Malleus, it’s not because rerolls of 1 to wound against HS is worth 30 points. It’s because I can potentially combine it with the chapter tactic to give them full rerolls to wound. The specialisms are already rarely worth it - did they really take away the best part of them, whilst also making them mandatory for all units? Or is there some other way to get the full rerolls to wound from them?

 

Obviously there’s some other upsides, but that feels like a totally illogical pairing > making specialisms mandatory whilst removing access to the best thing about them?? I guess only Aquila is mildly okay then?

 

Edit: I’m convinced I’m missing something, because from what I can see Aquila is just strictly better than every other specialism. I am assuming that we still choose a battlefield role for mission tactics, but then after that we swap it out each turn for another CT? If so that’s pretty good.

Edited October 19, 2021 by superwill

[techsoldaten]

Was unaware DW was featured in WZ Octarius until I saw this post. Sounds like I need the book.

 

Any word on the Inquisitor datasheets? Are they just reprints of the ones from 8th edition, or have they changed?

[leth]

Pretty sure its going to be army wide, all it takes to resolve the issue is one line somewhere which they have been pretty good on covering. 

 

I dont know if it will be better than dreadnaught spam, but I think BT are gonna do that better anyway so I expect the dreadnaught spammers to move to them. 

 

This allows me to play the Kill team heavy force I wanted to play anyway, but a bit more powerful.   The only issue I see is fitting in action monkeys/objective sitters.  But maybe that will be the full kill teams anyway with all the indirect fire in the game(orks, tyranids, etc). 

[MadEdric]

I love this. My main concern with opening up the SM codex to Deathwatch was them losing the feel of being Deathwatch. We pretty much just became another SM chapter.

Do note, I'm a casual player, so don't care about power content, and if this lets me play a DW force that feels like DW, I'm all in on this.

[angrom]

@Superwill. Thats right aquila is the best spe for the 3 cp autowound strat. When changing chapter tactic you lose the DW xenos hunter that connect with spe for full reroll. Thankfully there is a wt that allow to keep both chapter tactic within 6

 

My question about autowound with flamers is because some are claiming That the strat requires to score a hit which flamers don t do since they autohit

[Charlo]

 

Any word on the Inquisitor datasheets? Are they just reprints of the ones from 8th edition, or have they changed?

 

As far as people know, exactly the same as 8th edition but updated to include any relevant FAQ changes.

 

Similar to the Chaos Space Marine rules in the Book of Fire.

[thesilverback]

I see this coming into play, mainly when Deathwatch armies end up playing non-Xeno forces because against Xeno, Deathwatch is set good against them.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I see this coming into play, mainly when Deathwatch armies end up playing non-Xeno forces because against Xeno, Deathwatch is set good against them.

tbh there is allot more chaos and loyalists than Xenos, Xenos accounts for maybe 10% of my games.

[thesilverback]

I agree. I face alot of chaos, so this should be help alot. 

[techsoldaten]

Not to just parrot other people's points, but that's exactly what I was thinking. DW Strike Force makes the faction more competitive against non-Xenos threats.

 

While Specialism Extremis (the 3CP auto-wound strat) is a little more limited than what's been discussed here, it's basically gives your unit D weapons for a turn. I could see entire armies built around using this plus the teleport strat.

[leth]

The key thing that it does is allow you to remove a role you have to build for in your army meaning you can focus efficiency elsewhere.

 

For example: one of the biggest weaknesses of deathwatch has, and continues to be, T8 things.  We have just not been able to build a cost efficient way to deal with T8. Its part of why the dreadnaught builds are so popular. 

 

Now, with extremis, we can just drown those targets in -1/-2 bullets instead of having to over invest in sub-par T8 specialized shooting that is extremely situational. Now we are more efficient against everything else where the T8 shooting is mostly wasted. 

 

I plan to build a kill team, give them the lord of war/heavy strategism and be ready to teleport them in when facing specific opponents situationally. Otherwise they are still a boat load of bullets so not losing much. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by leth

[Feral_80]

True, the main benefit of the army (ie Veterans of the long vigil) comes at the cost of giving up the DW chapter trait, which however you have been required to upgrade by paying for mandatory specialism for every KT. This does not work well, on its own.

 

However, I believe the big deal is the associated WL trait which allows you to ADD the effect of the DW chapter trait to that of 1 other chapter trait, effectively doubling on traits for units within 6". 

That seems very powerful, perhaps a bit too much. Most of our WL traits are okish, but you rarely need more than one, so the this new trait can pretty much be an auto-take for the real WL or for a support pseudo-WL via the stratagem.

 

As I am already regularly playing my DW with zero vehicles, moving to this army of renown seems a no-brainer for me.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Feral_80

[MadEdric]

I'm going to try it with one of each kill team, plus Killteam Cassius, then all three named characters. With points left, one veteran bike squad.

[Trollbeard]

We can’t take vehicles except for dedicated transports for each KT? Or is it any vehicle with a transport capacity?

[angrom]

The new strike force looks cool but the drawbacks makes me wonder if it will actually outclass the dread build.

1 each units have to be in kill teams

Obviously meaning no non transport vehicules but also every unit that you may want to take in small squads like terminators, inceptors, or vanguard/bikes require you to pay the base unit tax which can rapidly addup in points, also being forced to take specialism means at the very least 100 pts into that.

Then the auto wound is great for weak weapons but the value drop with other weapons like meltas or plasma that we may already reroll wound with.

We can't either take a big brick of terminators to make it worth with 40 bolt shots.

Now lets talk about the autowound strat.

Sounds great at first, but then you notice that you have to use it on weak weapons like bolters to make it worth which means yes, you autowound but at ap1. Most armies won't be afraid of that.

[bortbortbort]

True, the main benefit of the army (ie Veterans of the long vigil) comes at the cost of giving up the DW chapter trait, which however you have been required to upgrade by paying for mandatory specialism for every KT. This does not work well, on its own.

 

Why would the full re-rolls from specializations not be active when you choose another chapter tactic for a turn for your army?

 

Veterans of the long vigil states that the "new" on affects THIS UNIT, it never says the DW trait is no longer active. It still applies to transports, in fact.

 

The specialization states that, to get full re-rolls, you must have "chosen" the same roll for DW chapter tactic, not that it applies to the unit...

 

What is the ruling on BoV vs. Specializations in non-AOR armies?

[techsoldaten]

The new strike force looks cool but the drawbacks makes me wonder if it will actually outclass the dread build.

1 each units have to be in kill teams

Obviously meaning no non transport vehicules but also every unit that you may want to take in small squads like terminators, inceptors, or vanguard/bikes require you to pay the base unit tax which can rapidly addup in points, also being forced to take specialism means at the very least 100 pts into that.

Then the auto wound is great for weak weapons but the value drop with other weapons like meltas or plasma that we may already reroll wound with.

We can't either take a big brick of terminators to make it worth with 40 bolt shots.

Now lets talk about the autowound strat.

Sounds great at first, but then you notice that you have to use it on weak weapons like bolters to make it worth which means yes, you autowound but at ap1. Most armies won't be afraid of that.

 

 

Not sure there's a great case for transports. An all-infantry army designed to take and hold 3 objectives will win a lot of games.

 

An Indomitor KT with Heavy Intercessors carrying Hellstorm / Executor Bolt Rifles, using the Malleus specialism, seems like the ideal target for the Stratagem. Add a Chief Apothecary to keep it on the board, add a character with Dominus Aegis to improve saves.

 

But yes, that is expensive. The poor man's version might be a Proteus Kill Team with Shields / SIA Bolters and 5 Terminators (one of which carries an assault cannon). Teleport in somewhere and ruin your opponent's day. 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I would argue that a single corvus and a couple of rhinos would still be beneficial to save your more expensive KT choices until ready and act as mobile cover etc after the corvus itself opens up allot of options and is reasonablely costed with some good strats.

I would just warn about sinking too many points into a single part of the force which may never make its points back.

[leth]

Think about it more, the strike force will need to leverage the wide range of characters available and really plan when thinking about secondaries. 

 

End of the day our cheapest units will be things like company champions in regards to action monkeys, and we dont have any non-character action monkeys available.  It might necessitate the investment in things like the ability to shoot and still perform actions.