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Sister Novitiates Datasheet

Datasheet

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#1
RolandTHTG

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They've posted the datasheet for the new Unit on Warhammer Community. 

https://www.warhamme...0000-datasheet/

75-100pts for a ten woman objective holder unit doesn't seem too bad.

Not sure I'm too impressed with the close combat capabilities, even if it's 3 S4 attacks per novitiate. 


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#2
Bonzi

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They've posted the datasheet for the new Unit on Warhammer Community.
https://www.warhamme...0000-datasheet/

75-100pts for a ten woman objective holder unit doesn't seem too bad.
Not sure I'm too impressed with the close combat capabilities, even if it's 3 S4 attacks per novitiate.


My beef is that this unit is almost squarely targeted at Bloody Rose only. All their bonus buffs and equipment are for melee. There is almost zero reason you would ever take the autoguns over pistol and CCW. Most sisters shooting buffs are keyed to bolters so that's a double strike against running them ranged.

It's a cool unit for sure but I'm bummed they are so melee focused.

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#3
tvih

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Yeah, that's gonna be pretty crazy for BR. Pushing into objectives with ObSec CC Novitiates that do 4 attacks on the charge each, for 7½ points each. For a split-Order army... well, the way the unit limit is worded it seems you wouldn't be able to put them into a Vanguard  detachment without including a unit of Battle Sisters in that detachment, even if you had BSS in another detachment.

 

But yes, not quite as great for other Orders in terms of offensive output... though for the per-model cost still quite good, mind you. That's only 2½ points more than a grot. It's good they have the limitation in numbers in that sense. As was discussed when they were first announced, there was the danger of them being too cheap especially if you could take 5. With 10 per squad and needing equal number of BSS it strikes a decent balance.


Edited by tvih, 28 October 2021 - 02:38 PM.


#4
Banjulhu

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You could see them becoming a very BR friendly unit the moment the Kill Team rules were shown of and the Novitiate had the <Order> Keyword but it is a bit of a shame that outside of the bloody rose that they will be filler at best.

 

On the competive front they may end up pushing the mixed order lists further down the pile in favour of Bloody Rose + Vahl + Celestine lists because 32 S4 Ap -1 attacks, 3 S3 Ap -1 attacks and 4 S4 Ap -4 attacks on the charge that gets to reroll the charge dice for just 85pts is hard to turn down.

 

In summary I may have to try an BR army with three min sized Battle sister units and 3 melee equipped Novitiate units.



#5
Tokugawa

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In other orders they could at least work as tzaangors.

#6
Beams

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...I guess they are fine for BR? I'm not seeing them as anything super crazy, but they will at least be fun. 



#7
Montford

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I don't play Bloody Rose but I'll still try them out.


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#8
MagicHat

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I understand not having all the kill team options, but the eviscerator and the crossbow would have been nice.

#9
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I understand not having all the kill team options, but the eviscerator and the crossbow would have been nice.

Agree, its a bit of a let down really.... 

In other news, it will gives us lots of bits for conversion work to vary up the character models......


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#10
Maschinenpriester

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I understand not having all the kill team options, but the eviscerator and the crossbow would have been nice.


Well the eviscerator or the whips just can go as a novitiae cc weapon I guess. Just glue on a pistol holster.

I feel they would even aid making the Br detatchment even more efficient if you play with mixed orders. You would not have to invest in vanguard and could take a batallion with a bss and a squad of novitiae. So you are not "wasting" that bss in a cc boosted detatchment. It really comes down to the points cost though.

#11
Montford

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Its cheap for 10 models.


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#12
Beams

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Its cheap for 10 models.

 

It's 75 pts? A guard squad is less, cultists less, grots, etc. 

Unless you are getting them for Bloody Rose, these guys are budget scions -- 4+ Save and Str 3 Rapid Fire 1, but without all the goods that make scions good.

If you are going for Bloody Rose, they are a reasonable glass cannon melee unit (cuz we needed more of those), but at least they are Obsec and should put out enough attacks to hurt other troops.



#13
tvih

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Consider that if you do get them to combat, even without BR they throw more S4 D1 melee attacks in the first fight phase than an equal number of Battle Sisters do with boltguns at rapid fire range, and for much cheaper. Outside of that they are cheap bodies to put on objectives - since they get SoF and all that, they're not THAT much easier to kill than regular Sisters. Anyone wanting them to be even cheaper than this is simply put delusional.

 

For me adding them to my collection means that I could do Battalion + Patrol if I want/need to, which I currently can't because I only have exactly 3 minimum-size troop units. I'd need at least two more models to make a fourth BSS, but alas I'm all out (of plastic ones, anyway). But I can definitely see doing 2 BSS + 1 Nov squads regularly in a Battalion as well, since that generally takes more shooting to kill than just 3x5 BSS.

 

However I'll likely wait for the separate release, as to my - admittedly limited - knowledge there are more Sisters players than Tau players locally, and thus being able to split a box is unlikely.



#14
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Its cheap for 10 models.

 

It's 75 pts? A guard squad is less, cultists less, grots, etc. 

Unless you are getting them for Bloody Rose, these guys are budget scions -- 4+ Save and Str 3 Rapid Fire 1, but without all the goods that make scions good.

If you are going for Bloody Rose, they are a reasonable glass cannon melee unit (cuz we needed more of those), but at least they are Obsec and should put out enough attacks to hurt other troops.

 

Yes they are cheap for 10 models. In what other Unit in a Sisters of Battle Detachment can you get 10 models for 75 points? Or please explain how I can put Imperial Guard, or Grots, or Cultists into an Adepta Sororitas Battalion and still be Battleforged and not lose Miracle Dice?


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#15
Beams

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Its cheap for 10 models.

 

It's 75 pts? A guard squad is less, cultists less, grots, etc. 

Unless you are getting them for Bloody Rose, these guys are budget scions -- 4+ Save and Str 3 Rapid Fire 1, but without all the goods that make scions good.

If you are going for Bloody Rose, they are a reasonable glass cannon melee unit (cuz we needed more of those), but at least they are Obsec and should put out enough attacks to hurt other troops.

 

Yes they are cheap for 10 models. In what other Unit in a Sisters of Battle Detachment can you get 10 models for 75 points? Or please explain how I can put Imperial Guard, or Grots, or Cultists into an Adepta Sororitas Battalion and still be Battleforged and not lose Miracle Dice?

 

 

They are not cheap for 10 models when you can get 10 equivalent models for 2/3rds the price. Whether or not you can do that without losing miracle dice is irrelevant -- these guys are very expensive if you aren't loading them out for melee, for what they do. 



#16
tvih

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They are not cheap for 10 models when you can get 10 equivalent models for 2/3rds the price. Whether or not you can do that without losing miracle dice is irrelevant -- these guys are very expensive if you aren't loading them out for melee, for what they do.

What matters is how they compare within the codex itself, and I still say they do so favorably. Not necessarily an autopick over more BSS (at least for non-BR), but then they shouldn't be. They are, however, a very viable pick. Why the hell do people want everything new to be balls-to-the-walls overpowered or they're useless? And then in the next breath they blame GW for trying to push new models with OP rules... facepalm.png

 

For that matter if you want to compare cross-codex... a regular Guard Infantry Squad for Guard is 55 points, but have a 5+ save, no invulnerability save (ours may be army-wide, but it still factors in the overall cost), worse BS by 1, worse leadership by 1. A veteran squad would be closer in stats, though still the worse saves, and they're 65 points and not troops.

 

And even mentioning grots, for crying out loud - are you trying to kill your credibility or what? They're cheaper sure, but also entirely useless even for 5 pts each. Novitiates are Primarchs by comparison.


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#17
Beams

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They are not cheap for 10 models when you can get 10 equivalent models for 2/3rds the price. Whether or not you can do that without losing miracle dice is irrelevant -- these guys are very expensive if you aren't loading them out for melee, for what they do.

What matters is how they compare within the codex itself, and I still say they do so favorably. Not necessarily an autopick over more BSS (at least for non-BR), but then they shouldn't be. They are, however, a very viable pick. Why the hell do people want everything new to be balls-to-the-walls overpowered or they're useless? And then in the next breath they blame GW for trying to push new models with OP rules... facepalm.png

 

For that matter if you want to compare cross-codex... a regular Guard Infantry Squad for Guard is 55 points, but have a 5+ save, no invulnerability save (ours may be army-wide, but it still factors in the overall cost), worse BS by 1, worse leadership by 1. A veteran squad would be closer in stats, though still the worse saves, and they're 65 points and not troops.

 

And even mentioning grots, for crying out loud - are you trying to kill your credibility or what? They're cheaper sure, but also entirely useless even for 5 pts each. Novitiates are Primarchs by comparison.

 

 

...I play Orks as well? Grots are the perfect example of "Strategems Save Them" and "Wow these models are tiny, so I'm going to hide them out of sight on an objective, and you can't shoot them."

 

The Novitiates aren't bad -- they just aren't "cheap"? Like, 75 pts is fine for them. It's very ok ? But if you aren't going hard melee, they aren't very good -- they will die to a stiff breeze, and won't kill anything. If you are going melee -- and are bloody rose, they are good? 

 

My only real complaint about them, is that its another glass cannon melee unit in an army that is overflowing with them. 



#18
Montford

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Its cheap for 10 models.

 

It's 75 pts? A guard squad is less, cultists less, grots, etc. 

Unless you are getting them for Bloody Rose, these guys are budget scions -- 4+ Save and Str 3 Rapid Fire 1, but without all the goods that make scions good.

If you are going for Bloody Rose, they are a reasonable glass cannon melee unit (cuz we needed more of those), but at least they are Obsec and should put out enough attacks to hurt other troops.

 

Yes they are cheap for 10 models. In what other Unit in a Sisters of Battle Detachment can you get 10 models for 75 points? Or please explain how I can put Imperial Guard, or Grots, or Cultists into an Adepta Sororitas Battalion and still be Battleforged and not lose Miracle Dice?

 

 

They are not cheap for 10 models when you can get 10 equivalent models for 2/3rds the price. Whether or not you can do that without losing miracle dice is irrelevant -- these guys are very expensive if you aren't loading them out for melee, for what they do. 

 

 

 

LOL What is relevant is if I can take them in the Army that I use: I cannot use any of those Units you mentioned (guard squad is less, cultists less, grots, etc) and so those Units are irrelevant; so you see I cannot  "get 10 equivalent models for 2/3rds the price." Novitiates remain the least expensive unit of 10 models that I can take for a Sisters of Battle army. msn-wink.gif  Because if I show up at my FLGS to play a game with an Army that includes Sisters, Orks, Guard and Chaos Cultists all mixed up together I am pretty certain my opponents are going to object. biggrin.png 


Edited by Montford, 30 October 2021 - 01:23 PM.

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#19
Beams

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Its cheap for 10 models.

 

It's 75 pts? A guard squad is less, cultists less, grots, etc. 

Unless you are getting them for Bloody Rose, these guys are budget scions -- 4+ Save and Str 3 Rapid Fire 1, but without all the goods that make scions good.

If you are going for Bloody Rose, they are a reasonable glass cannon melee unit (cuz we needed more of those), but at least they are Obsec and should put out enough attacks to hurt other troops.

 

Yes they are cheap for 10 models. In what other Unit in a Sisters of Battle Detachment can you get 10 models for 75 points? Or please explain how I can put Imperial Guard, or Grots, or Cultists into an Adepta Sororitas Battalion and still be Battleforged and not lose Miracle Dice?

 

 

They are not cheap for 10 models when you can get 10 equivalent models for 2/3rds the price. Whether or not you can do that without losing miracle dice is irrelevant -- these guys are very expensive if you aren't loading them out for melee, for what they do. 

 

 

 

LOL What is relevant is if I can take them in the Army that I use: I cannot use any of those Units you mentioned (guard squad is less, cultists less, grots, etc) and so those Units are irrelevant; so you see I cannot  "get 10 equivalent models for 2/3rds the price." Novitiates remain the least expensive unit of 10 models that I can take for a Sisters of Battle army. msn-wink.gif  Because if I show up at my FLGS to play a game with an Army that includes Sisters, Orks, Guard and Chaos Cultists all mixed up together I am pretty certain my opponents are going to object. biggrin.png

 

 

You can take guard and sisters together -- whether or not its a good idea, is another issue.

 

My point stands -- these guys are very ok? Like, I will likely add a unit of them to bloody rose, but it's cheaper to have BSS instead, and BSS are generally better than these guys outside of bloody rose, and even in bloody rose, it's another glass cannon melee unit to add to my pile of glass cannon melee units. I'm not sure why everyone likes to jump all over my opinions and be so rude, but hey. Apparently saying a unit isn't cheap (75 vs 55 in codex troop option?) and is "ok" is apparently a hot take.


Edited by Beams, 30 October 2021 - 02:14 PM.


#20
Montford

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Its cheap for 10 models.

 

It's 75 pts? A guard squad is less, cultists less, grots, etc. 

Unless you are getting them for Bloody Rose, these guys are budget scions -- 4+ Save and Str 3 Rapid Fire 1, but without all the goods that make scions good.

If you are going for Bloody Rose, they are a reasonable glass cannon melee unit (cuz we needed more of those), but at least they are Obsec and should put out enough attacks to hurt other troops.

 

Yes they are cheap for 10 models. In what other Unit in a Sisters of Battle Detachment can you get 10 models for 75 points? Or please explain how I can put Imperial Guard, or Grots, or Cultists into an Adepta Sororitas Battalion and still be Battleforged and not lose Miracle Dice?

 

 

They are not cheap for 10 models when you can get 10 equivalent models for 2/3rds the price. Whether or not you can do that without losing miracle dice is irrelevant -- these guys are very expensive if you aren't loading them out for melee, for what they do. 

 

 

 

LOL What is relevant is if I can take them in the Army that I use: I cannot use any of those Units you mentioned (guard squad is less, cultists less, grots, etc) and so those Units are irrelevant; so you see I cannot  "get 10 equivalent models for 2/3rds the price." Novitiates remain the least expensive unit of 10 models that I can take for a Sisters of Battle army. msn-wink.gif  Because if I show up at my FLGS to play a game with an Army that includes Sisters, Orks, Guard and Chaos Cultists all mixed up together I am pretty certain my opponents are going to object. biggrin.png

 

 

You can take guard and sisters together -- whether or not its a good idea, is another issue.

 

My point stands -- these guys are very ok? Like, I will likely add a unit of them to bloody rose, but it's cheaper to have BSS instead, and BSS are generally better than these guys outside of bloody rose, and even in bloody rose, it's another glass cannon melee unit to add to my pile of glass cannon melee units. I'm not sure why everyone likes to jump all over my opinions and be so rude, but hey. Apparently saying a unit isn't cheap (75 vs 55 in codex troop option?) and is "ok" is apparently a hot take.

 

OK my man it seems we just are not on the same wavelength. I wasn't discussing which was better, and 10 BSS comes in at 110, not 55, so 75 is still a less expensive 10 model Unit. Yes you can take 5 BSS but that was not my statement :) I was talking about a 10 model Unit, not 5, and please note I never said the Novitiates were better at anything. I get what you are saying but it wasn't what I was talking about.biggrin.png


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#21
tvih

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Right. So. Unless you take upgrades, which many don't for BSS (I do though) and it costs extra anyway - they are both very similar in durability and firepower per point when you compare 7 BSS to 10 Novitiates. Sure, you take the 5 BSS if you absolutely want to save the 20 points. But then you take the Novitiates if you want the extra CC. So as said before - strictly better? No. Viable? Yes. Which, again, is the entire point and for once one of two options is not an auto take for every situation. I'm not sure how this is a bad thing or how is it hard to understand. You seem to be arguing against this by saying they're "only OK". Just... what?

 

And for the grots - yes, they're small, but they're useless for anything but deep strike screening - if they even manage to do that while being hidden - and maybe performing an action while sitting on the objective. And that's IF the objective even is in such a position that you can hold it while being hidden, when they often enough aren't (if it's a hidden objective... rather park a Squigbuggy there or whatever). And anyone actually comes to that objective held only by grots, they're gone in a second. Novitiates at least may hold out for a moment. I'd rather take whatever else rather than the grots in my ork lists currently... say, 5 stormboyz that only cost 5 points more than the grots, at least if I have the fast attack slot free. Novitiates simply have much more table presence and actual usability than grots, well worth the additional points.


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#22
sitnam

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I understand not having all the kill team options, but the eviscerator and the crossbow would have been nice.

Agree, its a bit of a let down really....

In other news, it will gives us lots of bits for conversion work to vary up the character models......

I'm actually more excited for that upgrade sprue for conversion purposes. I like the look of these girls with autoguns, so I want to take that sprue to kitbash a new characters
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#23
Halandaar

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Do we think there's any reason not to build the models with the specialist loadouts if only using in 40k? I suppose "Novitiate melee weapons" on the datasheet is deliberately vague so it can cover all the various different weapons included in the kit without making the squad really option-heavy and mixed-purpose (like Kommandos are).


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#24
SufficientAnonymity

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Do we think there's any reason not to build the models with the specialist loadouts if only using in 40k? I suppose "Novitiate melee weapons" on the datasheet is deliberately vague so it can cover all the various different weapons included in the kit without making the squad really option-heavy and mixed-purpose (like Kommandos are).

 

I am absolutely planning on assembling with the fancy KT options on the basis that novitiate melee weapons is vague enough to cover them all. That said, I can see it being a point of contention given the null rod really does look like a null rod, the eviscerator an eviscerator, and so on...


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#25
war009

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Do we think there's any reason not to build the models with the specialist loadouts if only using in 40k? I suppose "Novitiate melee weapons" on the datasheet is deliberately vague so it can cover all the various different weapons included in the kit without making the squad really option-heavy and mixed-purpose (like Kommandos are).

 

I think the kill team fluff allows for the specialization while the 40k fluff does not. I know in some of the fluff it states that while a Novitiate you are taught basics but once you are selected for your specialty you are were already selected and assigned to an order. 

 

I built mine with the more 40k mind set and which ones can transfer between games, as my group plays more 40k than KT. I am not found of taking the novitiates over Regular Sisters in KT, cause I can take a Heavy bolter, flamer, and have power armor.  So I built mine with 2 flamers, duelist, Simulacrum Imperialis, superior Plasma pistol power sword, 3 autoguns and 2 melee load outs

 

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