Paladin777 Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 (edited) I tried posting my calculations for all the weapons that sorcerers can get, however the forum doesnt like my format. I'm going to try to get it so I can post a link to my document, but I'm not sure I'll be able to make it happen as I'm not really all that tech savvy. Stay tuned! Still, I'm going to say that without Swelled, Seer's bane is absolutely the best all around weapon available to a sorcerer, but even that pales in comparison to the demon prince with sword, unless your target is a psyker (I'm done running numbers!). With swelled it only gets even better with wounding MEQ on 2+'s. However, I think a case can be made for the Stave Abominus. Against ork boys it inflicts more casualties than any of the other options have attacks! If you decide to go all out with buffs you can get up to 14 attacks (5 base, 6 paradigm of change, 7 Swelled, all multiplied by two) and has the potential to take out entire 10 man squads/mobs in one charge. If you ever feel like using the cult of mutation, This would be the guy to give the 'unmodified sixes to wound inflict one mortal wound' warlord trait! Unfortunately, against models with more than 2 wounds it matches the damage of a regular force stave, which is really one of the worst options (which Makes me kind of annoyed that GW decided to make it the only option in several cases, especially since I've got a bunch of old metal Aspiring sorcerers with the swords! Edited January 5, 2022 by Paladin777 Naryn, GreenPlasma, brother_b and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Looking forwards to it! If you can't post the sheet, it'll be possible to save the charts as images then upload them - a longer workaround for sure, but likely to get you more feedback. Thanks for doing the legwork, I look forward to the increased optimisation we'll get from it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted November 1, 2021 Author Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) I think I'm just gonna format it without tables. As it stands right now, I've got numbers for each weapon versus standard Marines, gravis marines, terminators, ork boys, median vehicles, and heavy vehicles. When I do my rearranging I'll probably add numbers for light vehicles (Raiders) and for GEQ. If you want to figure out how much damage Seer's Bane does to psykers (as opposed to other models), multiply the number of wounds by 1.75. It would make a nasty weapon vs kill rigs... ignoring ramshackle and D6 damage, sign me up! Edited November 1, 2021 by Paladin777 Xenith and Naryn 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) Well, here it is. If anyone's got any questions or thinks I got some numbers wrong (In full disclosure, I didn't really check my work), just let me know. Demon Prince numbers in parentheses are for the Talons Edit: I added the numbers for a TDA sorcerer with Battle Psyker with a force axe. Just a reminder that such a sorcerer has the same number of attacks at the same WS as a standard Exalted. This was done to keep the comparison on the weapons themselves. MEQ Total unsaved wounds Force staff: 1.3888 Stave abominus: 2.7777 SKAELOCH’S TALON: 1.1574 Khopesh: 2.3148 Seer's Bane: 2.7777 Force axe: 1.8518 Demon Prince with Sword: 2.8935(.2777) Total wounds inflicted Force staff: 2.7777 Stave abominus: 2.7777 SKAELOCH’S TALON: 4.6296 Khopesh: 4.6296 Seer's Bane: 5.5555 Force axe: 3.7037 Demon Prince with Sword: 8.6805(.5555) Total dead marines Force staff: .9199 Stave abominus: 1.3888 SKAELOCH’S TALON: 1.1574 Khopesh: 2.3148 Seer's Bane: 1.8516 Force axe: 1.2265 Demon Prince with Sword: 3.1712 TEQ (you did use Twist of Fate, right? ) Total unsaved wounds Force staff: .9259 Stave abominus: 2.3148 SKAELOCH’S TALON: .5787 Khopesh: 1.8518 Seer's Bane: 2.3148 Force axe: 1.3888 Demon Prince with Sword: 2.3148(.1851) Total wounds inflicted Force staff: 2.3148 Stave abominus: 2.3148 SKAELOCH’S TALON: 2.3148 Khopesh: 3.7032 Seer's Bane: 4.6296 Force axe: 2.7777 Demon Prince with Sword: 6.9444(.3703) Total dead terminators Force staff: .6172 Stave abominus: .6172 SKAELOCH’S TALON: .6858 Khopesh: .9259 Seer's Bane: 1.543 Force axe: .9259 Demon Prince with Sword 2.4382 Gravis Total unsaved wounds Force staff: 1.3888 Stave abominus: 2.7777 SKAELOCH’S TALON: .9259 Khopesh: 1.7361 Seer's Bane: 2.7777 Force axe: 1.8518 Demon Prince with Sword: 2.3148(.2777) Total wounds inflicted Force staff: 2.7777 Stave abominus: 2.7777 SKAELOCH’S TALON: 3.7036 Khopesh: 3.4722 Seer's Bane: 5.5555 Force axe: 3.7037 Demon Prince with Sword: 6.9444(.5555) Total dead gravis marines Force staff: .9256 Stave abominus: .9256 SKAELOCH’S TALON: 1.0973 Khopesh: .868 Seer's Bane: 1.8518 Force axe: 1.234567 (no, I'm not joking! Edited December 9, 2021 by Paladin777 Xenith, Naryn and GreenPlasma 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted December 5, 2021 Author Share Posted December 5, 2021 For those interested, I added the numbers for a force axe to accommodate the TDA sorcerer weapon option. I'm honestly kind of annoyed that the force stave is the default option for us because it really does seem like the worst option (when compared to swords and axes) against most targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naryn Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 Thanks for adding the force axe, that's a really useful point of comparison! Paladin777 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 Don't know how you're determining number of attacks (sequence probably matters), but don't you double base attacks before adding additional attacks? I honestly can't find it now, but that's how it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted December 5, 2021 Author Share Posted December 5, 2021 (edited) Don't know how you're determining number of attacks (sequence probably matters), but don't you double base attacks before adding additional attacks? I honestly can't find it now, but that's how it used to be.My calculations use the base exalted profile without any buffs. The only exceptions being the TDA sorcerer with a force axe and the DP with sword. The TDA sorcerer was calculated using the battle psyker upgrade to make it an apples-apples weapon comparison (as a TDA sorcerer with Battle psyker has the same attacks and BS as an exalted, and this is a post about the weapons themselves), and the DP with sword was included to see how the other options stack up to it (as it's the top dog when it comes to being a melee monster). This means that all weapons (minus the DP) are calculated assuming 5 attacks with a native 2+ to hit. That's all. Also, if you're referring to the Stave Abominus, the wording of the item doesn't say 'double the attacks characteristics' the wording specifically calls out for you to make two attacks whenever you would make an attack with the weapon, which means all extra attacks would be doubled because they'd all be made with the weapon. Edited December 5, 2021 by Paladin777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 Thanks Paladin777. I was referring to the 14 number cited in the first post. Thanks for clarifying. Paladin777 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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