9 replies to this topic

[Prot]

As of the rules change to Death to the False Emperor, I plan on pulling out the Black Legion! I have played that army 1 time in the last month and I almost found it too... depressing against the myriad of new rules that it faces.

 

At the time I did win, but it was with the strong reminder that we don't have the restriction of 'core', and being a Black Legion player this is good as I typically use Abaddon and Termies.

 

Speaking of which, it appears Abaddon gets the best of this rules change. I anticipate it won't turn out to be the best use of the +1 hit on an unmodified 6, but in my lists it will help. 

 

I am thinking of just keeping my Termies as is (I'm waiting to see how hard GW nerfs claws in the Chapter Approved update), and play them counts as claws (no need to rip off arms yet) and keep that unit intact.

 

Zerkers sound cool, if Abe is around that could be just a crazy pile of hits. On the otherside of the coin I am tempted to take my 3 Disco lords and go full bore with Daemon Engines.

 

But back on the infantry side I may actually get some mileage out of Warp Talons...? Possessed, greater Possessed.

 

I still have some of my Huron army of Corsairs, and I think they work pretty decent with the new rule, but I'm trying to keep this Black Legion.

 

Any additional thoughts floating out there? 

[Snazzy]

Sure.  But, it only emphasizes the need for both shooting and melee to gain maximum benefit.  The trend has been towards FW units like Decimators for point efficient shooting.  My opinion is that the rules changes, along with his auras are going to make Terminators better.  The real question is, do you sacrifice the double shooting of Endless Cacophony for an Icon of Wrath?  Abaddon himself got a huge boost from this.  The extra attacks may be enough to push him over the top on things like Dreads and more Monsters.

 

The other thing this rule change has made clear is that Prescience is a mandatory selection.

[BrainFireBob]

I think Haarken with Icon of Excess raptors actually is maybe worth considering. He's cheap, just don't make him your Warlord.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Dropping Abaddon or someone else with First Among Traitors in with Warp Talons (who get 4 attacks per man when charging and who don't get an Icon of Excess) could result in a huge explosion of hits and Damage 1 wounds that can get past a lot of the damage reduction defenses out there.

CSM with Chainswords could also be worth a look as a suicide trade unit. 3 attacks apiece when charging, Either charge rerolls from Icon of Wrath with a 5+ exploding hits from a nearby First Among Traitors or 5+ Exploding hits from Icon of Excess without a nearby Warlord, full rerolls from Let the Galaxy Burn (no need for Abaddon to be nearby), 5 possible Lightning Claw attacks on the Champ....this all could add up coming out of a Rhino or Dreadclaw.....or out of reserves off of a board edge. If, say, a big squad had 15 or so survive to get to contact via Warp Time or somesuch, then Merciless Fighters could be thrown on top to make things truly eye-watering.

 

As some Emperor's Children players have pointed out, Chainsword Noise Marines with an Icon of Excess and Prescience could be horrifying. Tack on Abaddon nearby for full rerolls and things could get nuts. Of course with Prescience, it could be any Lord at that point, or even just Let the Galaxy Burn.

 

A Daemon Prince powering himself with First Among Traitors and Prescience could be quite a blender.

Edited by GreaterChickenofTzeentch, 11 November 2021 - 01:04 AM.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Because the rule change that has made some of our units into better blenders depends on close combat, speed is going to be a huge factor to consider -- whether its CSM, Noise Marines, Zerks, or Termies that want you to deliver, you need either big squads to absorb casualties or you need something baked into the list to get them up the field as fast as post-humanly possible.  Raptors and Talons have a built-in solution, thankfully, and Terminators kind of do with their teleport ability.

 

On CSM, Noise Marines, and Raptors, I would definitely lean into the meme and take MoS with Icons for the 5+ DTTFE -- remove some of their reliance on Abbadon being there because he can't be everywhere.  If you're deep striking Terminators with Abbadon, I would take MoK and Icons of Wrath on them to help them land charges from their landing zones, and hopefully keep them in range of Abbs for auras.

[Prot]

Thank you everyone for feedback and some ideas to consider....

 

I've been mulling over my list. I have old habits I'm trying to drop but I'm still struggling to not take a Battalion and a Patrol just to get the extra juicy characters in.

 

I really want to do Termies but only 5 men because I just want to try out a few things. The Raptors are a good consideration, but I was leaning towards Warp Talons, however the Raptors are nice and cheap with some special weapon support thrown in. Heck, not a great idea, but Raptors and.... dare I say... Harkaan ??? I haven't fielded that bugger in probably a good 12+ months!

 

I like the idea of making some units independent because you're right... Abaddon can't be everywhere. 

 

I'm torn between keeping the list "daemonic" free, and that means Termies/Zerkers(?)/Raptors/Talons/vanilla CSM with Chainswords, etc, etc. OR swinging the theme to Possessed/MoP/Greater Possessed, etc.

 

I think the last 'successful' run I had with my BL was using Daemon Engines in a detachment (very assaulty with Venoms, and Helbrutes, and Disco Lords, and an Abe/Shooty detachment to back it up.

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

+++EDIT+++

To answer my own question... since I'm having a game tonight, I had to pull the trigger on a list sooner rather than later just to be safe.

 

Mostly going to do the following:

Abe/Sorc/Apostle/Harkaan

Cultists to fill requirements/points, and 2 squads of CSM chainswords

 

a few squads of Zerkers

Termies

Raptors

Spawn

 

Rhino's

2 x Havoks for fire support.

 

Gave MoS to Raptors. With Harkaan probably deep striking in depending on board/opponent.

Edited by Prot, 12 November 2021 - 07:20 PM.

[BrainFireBob]

How'd it go?

[Prot]

Follow Up:

 
Well I had the game, and it was against SoB, It was interesting, the 'new' ability?.. a bit lackluster perhaps.
 
Actually in all honesty what this game did was remind me how much frustration I personally feel towards GW for not giving Chaos CSM a real short-term fix for all the things we talk about that date the code so badly. As the main 'bad guy' in this wonderful setting, it's just a painful reminder of 'what could be'. But I'll stop myself right there.... I've been 'the chaos guy' in my area for 20+ years now, and it's just a faction I clearly love, and hate seeing it so ignored for the existence of 9th ed. 
 
The thing is since I played SoB, the 'new' rules were not exactly going to move the needle that much for me. I will say in creating my list for this game the following ideas played on my mind:
1. People (internet) were basically saying "don't build a list around this rule, it simply won't work".
2. Other factions clearly out class us by a country mile, but the list building CAN still include scoring mechanisms which don't necessarily care if you are the best/worst faction in the game.
3. The tweak to DTTFE naturally promotes aggressive play, but with out current codex, the army is (overall) not nearly resilient in an edition we can all probably agree is one of the most 'killy' in the past decades.
 
And with that in mind, I put it all together and came up with a list that works on parts 2, and 3 above: IE: Lots of crappy, single wound models, that all carry BBQ skewers and yell angry stuff as they push for board control.
 
 
So I did a full batrep on my blog with some pictures. If you just want to know who won, check out the spoiler:

 

Batrep with pics: https://prot40k.wpco...-dttfe-ability/

 

Spoiler

Although I was nearly tabled, the end result was a strong point victory for the Black Legion.

The big winner was not DTTFE, instead it was a 3 CP strat.

 

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Great report and good ideas on how I want to build my Black legion army, Prot! I'm inspired to do some modelling now!

[Prot]

Glad to hear it! 

 

I am an old school player.... I don't like to repeat a unit ad nauseam (ala Vanguard Vets, etc) for advantage. I think the best lists (For me) are the ones that stay true to a fairly traditional design and can still get the job done.

 

So when I field Black Legion, it's very hard for me to not use Termies, and I've despised that until now we've had very, very little reason to field CSM troops. 

 

I'm really feeling the age on some of the units but right now I think you need to work the angle that Death to the false everything gets us, and just be careful to back it up with some flexible shooting. ( There's no way I see us good enough in CC or shooting to concentrate too far one way or the other.)

 

Make sure the compliment it with psychic powers, and you've probably got a good, fun foundation to work from.