BL current state - A discussion

[byrd9999]

The biggest plus for 2021 has been the emergence of new authors, discovered and developed through the open submissions. Nate Crowley, Robert Rath and Mike Brooks have all produced excellent work this year. Three outstanding writers who elevate the bar for all BL authors.

 

Not to mention the Warhammer + stories, by the StoryForge team, which we know includes at least ADB, John French and Chris Wraight.

[Petitioner's City]

Brooks has been publishing since 2018 at least (his necromunda short story, Wanted:Dead, Redemptionist novel, and navigator novel, etc), but it has been great to see him get and so very succeed with a flagship series novella. Edited December 6, 2021 by Petitioner's City

[Ubiquitous1984]

Communication, communication, communication.

 

So much negativity in life stems from poor communication.  For me this is the absolute root cause in the discontent many of us feel with BL.  And it also feels so easy to resolve: if somebody at BL took hold of the marketing & fan interaction situation I feel like they could make a huge difference to the relationship with fans.  We know what the winning formula looks like because we have seen it work well before: regular updates featuring author input about upcoming books, a Coming Soon page that is jam packed with future releases (even if there is a large heading advising that "ALL RELEASE DATES SUBJECT TO DRASTIC CHANGE DUE TO ONGOING PANDEMIC") and a return to fan events such as BL Weekender.  If these can't be held in person then do an online event - all of those author seminars that we all love to attend could easily be replicated using the teleconferencing facilities that we are all adept at using thanks to COVID.  

 

But most of all just talk to us.  Communicate.  Give us updates on what's going on!  Global paper shortage?  Just let us know the books will be delayed!  Sewage leak at GW destroyed 100,000 books?  That's terrible but thanks for letting us know that you'll be six months behind your release schedule!  Lots of BL authors have moved onto pastures new?  That sucks, but I hear there are some exciting new authors coming on the scene, so tell us more about them!

 

Interact with the people who want to consume your products.  We don't bite!  

Edited December 6, 2021 by Ubiquitous1984

[skylerboodie]

You hit the nail on the head there Ubiquitous1984, it's exactly that. They don't have to do anything more than be open, rather than pretend everything is fine. <insert dog in hell meme here>

[Knockagh]

They also need to create a “Face of Black Library” figurehead. There really hasn’t been one since the days of Marc Gascoyne and/or Laurie Goulding and I feel its hurting the brand. As senior editor Nick Kyme is the logical choice but he may not fancy such a public role.

Yip, this is a great idea. Book reviews and author interviews, we have wathammer tv now. No excuses GW, let’s be having some. ADB would be very good in this role but I’m not sure he would be very good at the GWs sales pitch that would be required. Too honest for GW perhaps…leaving aside the big hitters, Rachel Harrison or Justin D Hill would suit me just fine.

[Sothalor]

I don't think the person in question should be an author.

 

It'd make more sense to me to have one of the BL editors or a person in a position of some oversight/coordination with the ability to lay out a sort of broader picture.

 

Not saying that picture needs every detail and date and contact laid out in audited detail, but somebody (a 'face', as good fraters have posted) who can say things like "Yes, global supply chains have impacted us, but don't worry, projects are still moving forward", and "So-and-so author has something exciting in the works, stay tuned for more detail" in just general enough terms would be enormously beneficial in terms of PR.

 

 

 

  We don't bite!  

 

Speak for yourself. I got some mean incisors. 

[DukeLeto69]

Blood Angels (and successors) and their teeth jokes!

 

Ha ha

 

Ubiquitous1984 spot on. Communication is key. I do wonder if there is a tension between the marketing & comms folks and the finance/senior management at GW. Actually openly admitting problems in supply chain would be good for fans (we understand, we do) but could spook shareholders and the market. Nobody wants to strangle the GW shareprice golden goose!

[skylerboodie]

 [cropped] I do wonder if there is a tension between the marketing & comms folks and the finance/senior management at GW. Actually openly admitting problems in supply chain would be good for fans (we understand, we do) but could spook shareholders and the market. Nobody wants to strangle the GW shareprice golden goose!

True, but on the other hand, the share price took a tumble recently following a broker downgrade that included comments of dissatisfaction in the fanbase, so it works both ways!

[Knockagh]

The whole GW price structure isn’t sustainable anyone within the game knows that. It’s a classic price bubble waiting to burst. Very few of the models sold ever end up anywhere near a gaming table and given the last year or so that’s probably dropped even further. The average GW customer is twice the age they were 20 years ago. Honestly I can’t believe it’s survived as long as it has. But the worlds changing rapidly and money is going to get scarcer.

That probably nothing to do with BL current issues though. There has to be an internal issue with writers or staff. Nothing else makes sense. Staff issues should resolve themselves through attrition or resolution, mostly attrition in my experience. A writers issue would be much more concerning.

[kamedake88]

Forgive me because I don't wish to derail the thread but I am remined of something in all of the lack of goings on with BL. This is endemic to corporate Britain as far as I can see it. I think the majority of people I have interacted with on this particular sub are American or don't live in the British Isles so we may not be used to it. During the first season of the Grand Tour Clarkson gave an interview about how much of a pleasure it was working with Amazon when compared to the BBC. Biased I know especially coming from Clarkson but what he said resonated with me quite a bit. It went with how Amazon approached everything with enthusiasm etc. which isn't important but what is was how there was a very lackadaisical and blasé way of doing things at the BBC, that he felt he needed to point out.

 

This made me think to my time as an accounts manager at a large software integration firm and for some odd reason I've never put two and two together. While with the company a sizeable number of my clients were in Europe with a few notables in the UK. What sticks out to me now as it did then was getting these UK firms to do anything to help us facilitate the integration of our products, that they dropped millions on bye the bye, was like pulling teeth from a fish, in the Marianas Trench, while on fire. This never occurred in any of my other accounts. Hell even some of my German and Italian clients flew my team out on their dime to make our work more efficient. 

 

This could go a long way to explaining what keeps happening with BL and GW to a larger extant in some form or fashion. My purpose also isn't to criticize British business culture per se but as an American who has a not to paltry 20 years in the corporate world sometimes when looking at the way the Brits do things associated with business makes me scratch my head. 

 

Anyway the pandemic is also partially to blame I am sure but I wanted to write this as food for thought.

Edited December 8, 2021 by kamedake88

[Sothalor]

That's an interesting perspective, but I would point out that GW's "main" branch appears significantly more communicative even compared to its own behavior in the past. The Warhammer Community site frequently and regularly showcases previews for things still fairly far down the pipeline, and sometimes even contextualizes the reasoning for certain changes and such.

 

This is not me saying that GW is some paragon of customer communication and transparency, far from it. Hell, just look at their Cursed City box game and how it got Tiananmen Square'd. Rather, this is me saying that any communication from and about their Black Library division seems egregiously lackluster even in comparison to that.

[DarkChaplain]

Haha, somebody's not gonna be visiting mainland China anytime soon :')

 

But I concur. GW's studio has been much more communicative the past year. They've straight up commented on production and shipping troubles, repeatedly communicated the state of store openings in various countries, and while tournaments have certainly been sparse, they still look at the meta anyway, give some rather more in-depth looks at things, and even LotR is seeing more coverage than one would expect in the 20s.

 

It's kinda bizarre, considering this used to be more of the other way around, back when BL was one of the few areas of the company that was very profitable compared to its expenses, back under Kirby.

If I had to speculate, I wouldn't be surprised if BL just couldn't get its stuff in order from the top down and thus was left out of stuff like Warhammer Day. Like they didn't submit their homework on time, so they didn't get featured.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

For what it's worth I do think that the shared sandbox nature of Siege of Terra, and Dawn of Fire is having an impact on them. I don't feel that they collaborated or sketched the overall arcs well in the HH and it showed at times. Mostly because the demand for the series was larger than anticipated so they just threw stuff out quickly, and I think the individual writers had a lot more control over their story.

 

Now I think they have a couple of series that they want to get right the first time and are communicating a lot more with each other to do it. That takes time, you add in the story forge commitments and it's not surprising that they aren't producing as much.   

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

Its not just BL though, its the same with the Heresy. Andy Hoare is leading Age of Darkness for the last 2 years and he' used tohave interesting stuff to say but I dont see much from him either on Warcom. 

 

He usually has a comment section in the newer campaign series. IIRC, we actually didn't really have public confirmation he was leading AoD until recently.

 

---

 

As for the general lack of things, my guess is Warhammer+ has a non-trivial impact there. If the writers are doing things with that, there will inevitably be a bit less on the book release side. Others have also mentioned the printing and shipping issues, which affect it as well.

 

I would like to see what happens at the BL reveal this weekend.

[mc warhammer]

For what it's worth I do think that the shared sandbox nature of Siege of Terra, and Dawn of Fire is having an impact on them. I don't feel that they collaborated or sketched the overall arcs well in the HH and it showed at times. Mostly because the demand for the series was larger than anticipated so they just threw stuff out quickly, and I think the individual writers had a lot more control over their story.

 

Now I think they have a couple of series that they want to get right the first time and are communicating a lot more with each other to do it. That takes time, you add in the story forge commitments and it's not surprising that they aren't producing as much.   

can i just add that even in projects written by a dedicated team of the exact same 5 or 6 writers, a showrunner overseeing every meeting and every draft, a dedicated script editor and a dedicated continuity person (who literally just focuses on continuity) messiness happens. goofs abound.

 

i can only imagine what it was like having authors come and go, changes in direction, editors and the like. maybe it could have been better? it could also have been much worse.

[MarineRaider]

My view on this is from someone that has never played the game, seen the game played or had a desire to play the game....ever.

 

I read the HH Legion book that was left behind by another Marine in a remote outpost in the middle of nowhere in a country that that only the White Scars could love.

 

I was hooked on the setting. Marines, politics and destruction...all appealed to me.

 

Hundreds of books later I only ask for one thing, a decent web-site that shows me what is available, what is planned for the future and when it will be available...that is it.

 

The BL website is without a doubt the worst consumer facing marketing device...ever. I don't care about the price, only when I can buy it. Frankly I found this site trying to get information on when the next HH book was coming out because the company selling it hid it from a consumer...but you guys knew and I come religiously to know when something is arriving.

 

While I am thankful for this it certainly points out a glaring problem with BL.

[Ubiquitous1984]

Michael at Track of Words has written an excellent summery of his thoughts on the current state of play with GW and BL.  I'm not sure if I am allowed to share the link, but I am sure most of you will be familiar with his blog.  It echoes many of the sentiments on here.

 

If a lot of people are all saying the same thing, then I really hope GW/BL pay attention and act upon it.  

Edited December 13, 2021 by Ubiquitous1984

[Taliesin]

I'll read it soon.

 

Its funny that a week after many of us were discussing what we would like to see more of, some of which we did get in the BL preview Saturday.

I personally would like to see Wade to do more, he's very knowledgeable and sympathetic and it would be nice to see him do more interviews with authors, or with Kyme.

 

Its clearly the sort of thing we all want to see, but more regularly than once or twice a year.

 

Of course what I didnt like so much about the preview is the complete absence of any dates given for any of the books shown, it is maximum vagueness on that front. 

An updated coming soon section would be very welcome in at least giving us some idea of when for instance the Sigismund, Huron or Assassins books are coming out.

 

I do expect, given the timeframe these GW previews usually cover, that anything that doesnt come out at the February Celebration does come out in March, or April at the latest. Theyre not in the habit of previewing stuff thats 6 months away.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Taliesin

[Knockagh]

Michael at Track of Words has written an excellent summery of his thoughts on the current state of play with GW and BL. I'm not sure if I am allowed to share the link, but I am sure most of you will be familiar with his blog. It echoes many of the sentiments on here.

 

If a lot of people are all saying the same thing, then I really hope GW/BL pay attention and act upon it.

The track of words blog I always feel has a firm grasp on the desires of the avid BL reader. Michael does a super job. I feel he missed out though in one area. Availability. He is right it doesn’t take much to keep the fans happy and as key as communication is it pales compared to the lack of availability. Not being able to buy a book unless you buy it within hours or at the very best days of release. As annoying as the craziness over the limited editions is, the general hardcover releases have become silly too. These books should be available for months if not a year after release.

Improves communication would be wonderful but without improved availability I can’t see me getting any happier about BL.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Knockagh

[theSpirea]

I'm thinking the limited print run of regular hardbacks is intentional. These editions are not available in regular bookstores (there are some exceptions, Siege of Terra, Primarchs, some Abnett's recent stuff such as Penitent, Warmaster). You can only get them through GW and LGS. GW might not like the idea of "old" books taking up too much room in their stores. Maybe they also want to have only the newest stuff available there along with the recent models. We don't really know but it's highly unlikely it's due to paper shortage and other covid-related issues. This was happening before covid. 

[Scribe]

My FLGS stopped carrying books. Just never sold.

 

It took a long time for Warhawk to show up at the book store, I'm working on it now.

[Knockagh]

The only other option we had in Belfast was forbidden planet and Waterstones, both shave stopped stocking BL.

 

Do people only buy BL if they have FOMO? And if I’m completely honest I’ve done this way more times than I like to admit to myself. If you can’t sell any after the release date it doesn’t speak that highly of the quality of the work to stand alone as a good book.

[Taliesin]

I'm thinking the limited print run of regular hardbacks is intentional. . This was happening before covid. 

 

Its definitely intentional. As to the reasons, we can only speculate but I think it has to do with their tactic of introducing deliberate artificial scarcity that leads to panic buying on the part of fans who fear they will miss out if they dont buy straight away. Its a business concept that shows the least possible amount of respect for the customers IMO.

[byrd9999]

I do find it odd that people are so willing to spend £90 or even £45 on a limited edition book that they might not even enjoy reading.

 

Super editions ought to come out after the initial release, so people who really enjoy it can buy it for the extras (like Folio editions) without the FOMO and the scalping and even just being able to read the actual book upon release. To be fair, BL are doing this with the annotated Eisenhorns, which I would like to see more of.

 

Ahriman is my favourite Warhammer character, but his portrayal in BL leaves me empty. Apart from a couple of scenes in the first Ahriman novel, his 30k and 40k appearances are underwhelming. I am so tempted by the extras in the new Ahriman book, but that's a lot of money if I won't enjoy the book.

[Sothalor]

The only other option we had in Belfast was forbidden planet and Waterstones, both shave stopped stocking BL.

 

Do people only buy BL if they have FOMO? And if I’m completely honest I’ve done this way more times than I like to admit to myself. If you can’t sell any after the release date it doesn’t speak that highly of the quality of the work to stand alone as a good book.

 

The infuriating thing is I think many of their books are genuinely at least decent - they may not be literary masterpieces (and do not get me started on the :cussy that is "literary" fiction a la English Majors AKA :cuss Nobody Reads), but I'd say most BL novels are at the least competent works of genre fiction, at least from technical standards of prose, plot, characters, etc.

 

I've read far worse.

 

Like, bloody hell, BL, have a little faith in your own products! Eh, to be fair, the current state of affairs is most likely the result of a cost-benefit analysis along the lines of minimum print runs, batch order costs, expected sales, warehouse space, all that business-related stuff I'm terrible at.