wulfgar hammerfist Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Greetings Wolf-kin! After a long break from the game I have decided to start playing again. The last time I played seriously was in 7th edition. I picked up the SM codex and the SW supplement to start planning my list. The area where I currently live is very competitive so I will be attending quite a few tournaments. I have seen quite a few posts about list building in 9th. The general takeaway is that the list should be built around secondaries. What secondaries are the best to build a list around? What units are considered compulsory for a competitive list? I have read a lot about wolf guard with jump packs, storm shields and lighting claws. Any initial ideas are most welcomed! TiguriusX and Iron Sapper 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 Greetings Wolf-kin! After a long break from the game I have decided to start playing again. The last time I played seriously was in 7th edition. I picked up the SM codex and the SW supplement to start planning my list. The area where I currently live is very competitive so I will be attending quite a few tournaments. I have seen quite a few posts about list building in 9th. The general takeaway is that the list should be built around secondaries. What secondaries are the best to build a list around? What units are considered compulsory for a competitive list? I have read a lot about wolf guard with jump packs, storm shields and lighting claws. Any initial ideas are most welcomed! The 2022 GT rules are coming out soon with a change to secondary missions This will cause a shift in the meta so it is hard to say what you should do without knowing the future wulfgar hammerfist 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 (edited) Redemptor dreadnought is, imho, a must take unit. Core, tough, hits like a truck in melee, provides a reasonable fire base and not too pricy @ about 185, so you can bring a couple without compromising your list. And Welcome back Brother! Edited December 22, 2021 by Rune Priest Jbickb wulfgar hammerfist 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar hammerfist Posted December 22, 2021 Author Share Posted December 22, 2021 Thanks for the replies! I think I have narrowed it down to three broad list concepts. I will wait to see what the 2022 GT rules provide before I move forward with additional purchases but I think the concepts are sound. Concept 1: Fast moving board control. Jump pack wolf guard, scouts and land speeder storms. Concept 2: March of the ancients. Redemptors, wulfen dreads and volkite dreads. This list seems easier to play and low model count. I do not have any relic contemptors and I feel volkite is primed for a nerf. I am hesitant to purchase these models. Concept 3: Boots of ground. Again, lots of jump pack wolf guard with a strong brick of wolf guard terminators to take on the opponent's biggest threats. This list plays smash mouth 40k and looks to control the center of the board. Again, these are the general concepts that I am considering. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 I don't play competitive, but I would lean more towards the third one, if all of them need you to get a few more things. The jump pack wolf guard and the terminators will serve you pretty well if you pivot to something else, whereas I don't think that's the case with the first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 (edited) IMO terminators are not durable enough to be a brick/anvil Meta is too lethal right now Other armies like DA have transhuman and FNP and damage -1 buffs and still cant win with terminators Some armies can bring models back from the dead making it even harder to wipe termies People have tools to kill 10 DA termies and 10 TS scarab termies so our WG termies are nothing in comparison (we have none of the buffs i listed above) Termies are also too slow...hard to get them where they need. Many opponents can ignore the brick and fight elsewhere to focus on scoring instead of killing models Jump WG are one of our top choices bc they have speed and killing power. Savage strike and reroll wound LCs are awesome I spend most of my games hiding behind LOS blocking terrain before i charge out. I need to wrap units or tag the shooters to survive to my next turn i assume anything my opponent can see is dead...so i expose units for trades where i kill and score primary or secondary before dying Edited December 22, 2021 by TiguriusX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar hammerfist Posted December 22, 2021 Author Share Posted December 22, 2021 IMO terminators are not durable enough to be a brick/anvil Meta is too lethal right now Other armies like DA have transhuman and FNP and damage -1 buffs and still cant win with terminators Some armies can bring models back from the dead making it even harder to wipe termies People have tools to kill 10 DA termies and 10 TS scarab termies so our WG termies are nothing in comparison (we have none of the buffs i listed above) Termies are also too slow...hard to get them where they need. Many opponents can ignore the brick and fight elsewhere to focus on scoring instead of killing models Jump WG are one of our top choices bc they have speed and killing power. Savage strike and reroll wound LCs are awesome I spend most of my games hiding behind LOS blocking terrain before i charge out. I need to wrap units or tag the shooters to survive to my next turn i assume anything my opponent can see is dead...so i expose units for trades where i kill and score primary or secondary before dying I agree with a lot of what you are stating here. I have watched a few games and observed how lethal it is. I am leaning towards the first option as it suits my play style. I like fast moving units that can move wherever they need to move to. I think I can keep the wolf guard units small enough to hide behind terrain. I will tinker around with some ideas and post them for feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 (edited) Look up Jamie Paris and his recent lists in BCP Top SW player running that concept lately Scouts in speeder storms with melta and master artisan successor trait That style is about scoring and playing missions so keep your eye on the prize He was at the NO open https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-to-the-finish-line/ Here is his BCP entry if you have a paid account to review https://web.bestcoastpairings.com/event-placings.php?eventId=NtSNLkFSHh Edited December 22, 2021 by TiguriusX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 I think goonhammer is a great resource if you're trying to play competitively, so looking up lists there is a smart ideal. One thing that I expect to change in space wolf lists moving forward are cyberwolves. I still think they'll have uses but the change to engage on all fronts is gonna hurt them a bit. Same for 2 man company vet squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 I think goonhammer is a great resource if you're trying to play competitively, so looking up lists there is a smart ideal. One thing that I expect to change in space wolf lists moving forward are cyberwolves. I still think they'll have uses but the change to engage on all fronts is gonna hurt them a bit. Same for 2 man company vet squads. gonna be hard to cut them from my lists even without engage they are excellent objective holders if no enemy artillery and backfield screeners in the corners I also advance and charge first to eat overwatch So much utility for the points even after change to engage rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Oh I still think they're good. I just don't know if they'll be in every competitive SW list. I can't recall a list on goonhammer tournament reviews that didn't run them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar hammerfist Posted December 23, 2021 Author Share Posted December 23, 2021 I have been studying the lists created by Jamie Paris. I have also watched some of his batreps. His is the style of list that I like to play. I played Firehowlers previously and I think his list's rapid play style fits me from both a competitive and fluff perspective. I think cyberwolves still have utility but maybe just one or two. Skyclaws might be worth considering due to their speed and decent hitting power. While it is more expensive, they do open up some other options. Definitely a lot of stuff to play test and figure out! TiguriusX 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar hammerfist Posted December 26, 2021 Author Share Posted December 26, 2021 How are wulfen performing in 9th? I think a pack with frost claws is fairly cheap and hits semi-hard. Maybe useful for clearing chaff or drawing fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 How are wulfen performing in 9th? I think a pack with frost claws is fairly cheap and hits semi-hard. Maybe useful for clearing chaff or drawing fire? They were nerfed HARD but I still run them. My son bought me a box for my bday so I make an effort to include them in every army. They have 1 trick which is useful in the meta...guaranteed fight on death I run 2 frost claws and 2 TH in my packs so they are good into everything I run them as a successor for double exploding 6s...sometimes they go absolutely bonkers In missions where they have a wall real close to an objective they absolutely dominate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar hammerfist Posted December 27, 2021 Author Share Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) Thanks for the information. I think, given the models in my collection, I am going to go with something similar to Jamie Paris. I think the pending changes to the secondary missions remove the need for the company veterans unless there is some play there I am missing. Maybe some interaction with the bodyguard keyword makes them worth taking? Here's the list: Master Artisans, Whirlwind of Rage Captain - chapter master upgrade, legendary warrior, combi-melta, lightning claw (frost upgrade), hunter, imperium's sword, jump pack Lieutenant - combi-melta, thunder hammer, hero of the chapter, rites of war, armor of russ, jump pack Primaris Chaplain on Bike - master of sanctity, hero of the chapter, wise orator, benediction of fury 5 Blood Claws 5 Blood Claws 5 Incursors 7 Wolf Guard - 2 combi-meltas, storm shields, lightning claws, 1 thunder hammer, jump packs 7 Wolf Guard - 2 combi-meltas, storm shields, lightning claws, 1 thunder hammer, jump packs 5 Wolf Guard - lightning claws, storm shields, 1 thunder hammer, jump packs 5 Scouts - combi-melta, melta, shotguns 5 Scouts - combi-melta, melta, shotguns Cyberwolf Cyberwolf 6 Long Fangs, cherub, grav-cannon, 4 multi-melta Pod Land Speeder Storm Land Speeder Storm This list leaves me with ~118 points to play with. Initial thoughts are to a) bump up the last wolf guard pack to 7 and add an attack bike, b ) add in a small pack of sky claws for actions and engage, or c) something else entirely. Open to feedback, thanks! Edited December 27, 2021 by wulfgar hammerfist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 Thanks for the information. I think, given the models in my collection, I am going to go with something similar to Jamie Paris. I think the pending changes to the secondary missions remove the need for the company veterans unless there is some play there I am missing. Maybe some interaction with the bodyguard keyword makes them worth taking? Bodyguard is for opponents who have no artillery/ignore LOS shooting You can grab an objective using bodyguard that would otherwise be a death sentence for a non HQ Bodyguards are safe behind LOS blocking terrain. The 3" bodyguard bubble and large base of Chaplain touch the objective that is in the open *Don't try this against GK or TS...bodyguard doesn't stop smite As for your list... Not sure I like the large WG units. 7 is an odd squad size. Did you math hammer it for a specific purpose? 7 models means savage strike costs you 2 CP (I use savage strike all the time with WG) 7 models also opens you to blast rules What about 1 squad going up to 10 models and keeping the others at 5? or alternatively...you can drop them all down to 5 and make a skyclaw unit Barebones skyclaw is a cheap jump unit to grab an early objective and sacrifice while earning points or clearing most chaff If you have 30 more points to spare you can add a WG Pack leader and give him double LC + thane of the retinue and give him FROST CLAWS Now that unit is guaranteed shredding chaff and threatening combat units b/c he is 5 attacks at S5 D2 rerolling wounds Good luck with your list! Hope you report on your battles This is my current test list ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [109 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++ + Configuration + **Chapter Selector**: Born Heroes , Custom Chapter, Space Wolves Successor, Whirlwind of Rage Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost + Stratagems + A Trophy Bestowed [-1CP] Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics Thane of the Retinue [-1CP] + No Force Org Slot + Company Veterans [3 PL, 44pts] . Company Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield . Company Veteran Sergeant: 2x Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades + HQ + Chapter Master in Phobos Armour [7 PL, -1CP, 135pts]: 2. Lord of Deceit, Bolt pistol, Camo cloak, Chapter Command: Chapter Master, Combat knife, Frag & Krak grenades, Master-crafted instigator bolt carbine, Master-Crafted Weapon, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter Primaris Chaplain on Bike [7 PL, -1CP, 140pts]: 2. Catechism of Fire, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Absolver Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades, Hunter, Litany of Hate, Rites of War, Stratagem: Warrior of Legend, The Armour of Russ, Twin Bolt rifle, Warlord + Troops + Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts] . 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol . Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts] . 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades . Incursor Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Occulus bolt carbine, Paired combat blades Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts] . 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades . Incursor Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Occulus bolt carbine, Paired combat blades + Elites + Wolf Guard [7 PL, 148pts]: Jump Pack . Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Thunder hammer Wolf Guard [7 PL, 148pts]: Jump Pack . Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Thunder hammer Wulfen [8 PL, 157pts] . Wulfen Pack Leader: Wulfen Frost claws . 2x Wulfen w/ thunder hammer & storm shield: 2x Storm Shield, 2x Thunder Hammer . 2x Wulfen w/ Wulfen frost claws: 2x Wulfen Frost claws Wulfen [8 PL, 157pts] . Wulfen Pack Leader: Wulfen Frost claws . 2x Wulfen w/ thunder hammer & storm shield: 2x Storm Shield, 2x Thunder Hammer . 2x Wulfen w/ Wulfen frost claws: 2x Wulfen Frost claws + Fast Attack + Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts] . Cyberwolf: Teeth and claws Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts] . Cyberwolf: Teeth and claws Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts] . Cyberwolf: Teeth and claws + Heavy Support + Eradicator Squad [14 PL, 205pts]: Heavy melta rifle . 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol . Eradicator Sgt: Bolt pistol . Eradicator with MM: Bolt pistol, Multi-melta Long Fangs [11 PL, 163pts]: Armorium Cherub . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Grav-cannon . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Grav-cannon . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Grav-cannon . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Grav-cannon . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Grav-cannon . Long Fang Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades . . Boltgun and Bolt Pistol: Bolt pistol, Boltgun Long Fangs [11 PL, 213pts]: Armorium Cherub . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta . Long Fang Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Morkai's Teeth Bolts . . Boltgun and Bolt Pistol: Bolt pistol, Boltgun + Dedicated Transport + Drop Pod [4 PL, 70pts]: Storm bolter Drop Pod [4 PL, 70pts]: Storm bolter ++ Total: [109 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net) The original version of my list had skyclaws like I suggested above and was split into 2 patrols I am currently testing if the extra CP is more useful My meta has big game hunting currently Thicc city (talos/cronos spam...if you haven't seen it yet oh boy. T7 D-1 a 6++ and 5+++ FNP on talos/cronos make it real hard to kill) Nid crusher stampede (all the giant monster nids) In addition to that a list has to be able to handle GK/TS and Sisters I would love more monster killing tools but I can't skew too heavy into big game hunting or the other lists will drop me I'm hoping to make the T5S2 invitational for the first time Top 16 players get in I am currently at #9 and the season ends soon Hopefully nobody leapfrogs me at the last minute! wulfgar hammerfist 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar hammerfist Posted December 27, 2021 Author Share Posted December 27, 2021 Thanks for the explanation of the bodyguard tactic. Seems like it could be useful. I went with 7 WG to add the two combi-melta to the packs. There isn't really any other reason for the size. I think I will go back to five and just keep them melee focused. Are you getting much mileage out of your eradicators? They seem fragile to me and the -1 to hit due to heavy is off-putting. I know there is a stratagem to help with that but CP are precious. I am keeping the one melta pod so that is already one CP committed. I'd like to save two for savage strike which only leaves three for situational use in the current list. As for secondaries, I think Oaths is a no-brainer and RND looks solid as well. Not sure what the third would be but it's probably matchup dependent. If I keep the speeders I think engage would be a contender. Once I get linked in with the local group I will get some games in and report on my progress. Right now I am still waiting on my household goods to arrive from the moving company. Moving during the holidays is rough! TiguriusX 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 Thanks for the explanation of the bodyguard tactic. Seems like it could be useful. I went with 7 WG to add the two combi-melta to the packs. There isn't really any other reason for the size. I think I will go back to five and just keep them melee focused. Are you getting much mileage out of your eradicators? They seem fragile to me and the -1 to hit due to heavy is off-putting. I know there is a stratagem to help with that but CP are precious. I am keeping the one melta pod so that is already one CP committed. I'd like to save two for savage strike which only leaves three for situational use in the current list. As for secondaries, I think Oaths is a no-brainer and RND looks solid as well. Not sure what the third would be but it's probably matchup dependent. If I keep the speeders I think engage would be a contender. Once I get linked in with the local group I will get some games in and report on my progress. Right now I am still waiting on my household goods to arrive from the moving company. Moving during the holidays is rough! Heavy melta eradicators are very useful in the giant kaiju meta. +2 damage at long range +4 damage up close Ideal area denial unit b/c anything that approaches gets blasted If they are near the chapter master i don't use keen senses on them. 4's rerolling all hits are good enough If I NEED to kill something I pop keen senses You know exactly how your list operates. Keep a focus on those secondaries and you will be just fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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