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Sneaky help needed


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#1
The Dr

The Dr

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I’m entering a tale of four gamers when the next box comes out to promote heresy for our store and the game locally.

The first few AL lists I wrote were pretty relaxed but my opponents are day of rev sang led BA and Alvarex drop assault RG. Let’s just say even with my limited knowledge of those legions and tougher lists I knew that my team mate (IW) and I were going to have our heads caved in. So I’ve done a redesign but I’ve never seen or played with AL even though I’ve been trying for years and really need help with the list, and any tactics tips for dealing with drop lists. I’m not looking to tailor 100% or necessarily win every game, just want to make it a fight. Anyway list follows


++ Crusade (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [3,000pts] ++

+ HQ: +

Chaplain [135pts]: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger, Refractor Field
. Consul
. . Chaplain
. Crozius: Power Axe

+ Elites: +

Apothecarion Detachment [115pts]
. Apothecary, Legion: Jump Pack, Power Armour
. . Chainsword or Combat Blade: Chainswords/Combat Blades
. Apothecary, Legion: Artificer Armour
. . Chainsword or Combat Blade: Chainswords/Combat Blades

The Rewards of Treason [520pts]
. Firedrake Terminator Squad: Chainfist, 4x Dragonscale Storm Shield, 4x Firedrakes
. . Firedrake Master: Dragonscale Storm Shield, Master-crafted Thunder Hammer
. . Land Raider Proteus (DT): Armoured Ceramite, 2x Twin-linked Lascannon Sponsons

+ Troops: +

Assault Squad, Legion (Compulsory) [305pts]: 14x Assault Space Marines, Legion
. Additional Wargear: 3x Power Axe
. Assault Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger, Power Fist
. Standard Wargear
. . Chainsword or Combat Blade: Chainswords/Combat Blades

Tactical Squad, Legion (Compulsory) [200pts]: Bolters, 9x Tactical Space Marines, Legion
. Additional Wargear: Vexilla, Legion
. Rhino Armoured Carrier, Legion: Multi-melta
. Tactical Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolter, Melta Bombs

Tactical Squad, Legion (Compulsory) [200pts]: Bolters, 9x Tactical Space Marines, Legion
. Additional Wargear: Vexilla, Legion
. Rhino Armoured Carrier, Legion: Multi-melta
. Tactical Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolter, Melta Bombs

Tactical Support Squad, Legion Plasma Gun [250pts]: Plasma gun, Support Squad
. Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs, Plasma Gun
. 6x Space Marines, Legion: 6x Bolt Pistols, 6x Frag and Krak Grenades, 6x Power Armour

+ Fast Attack: +

Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron, Legion [70pts]
. Javelin Attack Speeder, Legion: Hunter-killer Missile, Multi-melta, Twin-linked Cyclone missile launcher

Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron, Legion [70pts]
. Javelin Attack Speeder, Legion: Hunter-killer Missile, Multi-melta, Twin-linked Cyclone missile launcher

+ Heavy Support: +

Fire Raptor Gunship, Legion [250pts]: Armoured Ceramite
. Four wing-mounted:: Hellstrike Missiles
. Two Independent Ball Turret-mounted:: Reaper Autocannon Battery

Land Raider Battle Squadron, Legion [250pts]
. Land Raider Proteus: Armoured Ceramite, Explorator Augury Web, 2x Twin-linked Lascannon Sponsons

Sicaran Arcus Strike Tank [220pts]: Arcus Warheads, Hull-mounted Heavy Bolter, Skyspear Warheads

+ Allegiance +

Legion and Allegiance: XX: Alpha Legion, Traitor

Rite of War: The Coils of the Hydra

+ Lords of War +

Alpharius [415pts]
. Primarch: Warlord

+ Use Playtest Rules +

Use Playtest Rules Errata 1.0 (From FAQ 1.1 Feb/2019): Playtest Rules Errata 1.0 On

+ Warlord Traits +

Warlord Traits

+ Dedicated Transport Restictions +

Dedicated Transports Restrictions: Dedicated transports are part of the parent unit

++ Total: [3,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

Edited by The Dr, 31 December 2021 - 02:43 AM.


#2
Eternal Despair

Eternal Despair

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So without knowing exactly what your opponents are bringing its always a little hard to determine if a list is going to do well or not but I reckon you’ve done a solid enough job here. With that said there are a couple things to bear in mind when your running this list. First and foremost is that since not all your infantry and by extension jump infantry units have a dedicated transport/the ability to deep strike you will always need to run infiltrate as your mutable tactic to keep this list legal. Now that’s not a bad thing per say but it does reduce some of the flexibility that the list affords you and you might have a game or two where you really wished you could take counter attack or tank hunters etc. 

Now for actual list improvements the first thing I’d do is drop the 6th plasma support squad member and add dozerblades to all your tanks. It’s 5 points and it is the single most important upgrade to a tank even more so than armoured ceramite or weapon options especially on transports, dozer blades keep you from immobilising yourself on terrain and rendering your rhino or land raider useless, my advice is that if you can’t afford to put dozer blades on a tank you just can’t afford to run a tank. 

Second is that proteus you have the fire drakes in is a bad choice, the vehicle while cheaper than a Phobos land raider (the one we all know and love from 40k) it lacks the all important assault ramp meaning those fire drakes have to spend a turn doing nothing after exiting their transport before they can assault a unit which means they will probably get shot off the board or at the very least will be charged meaning they’ll lose the bonus attack they’d normally get on the charge, from memory if you drop the armoured ceramite from both land raiders you would have enough points to swap the fire drakes proteus to a Phobos land raider but if you need an extra 5 or 10 points drop the hunter killer missiles from the javelins.

other than those two major changes the only other thing I’ll say is that the fire drakes will be a major target so it there is a decent chance there land raider will get blown up and they’ll end up foot slogging it across the board which is less than ideal. 


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#3
Unknown Legionnaire

Unknown Legionnaire

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 First and foremost is that since not all your infantry and by extension jump infantry units have a dedicated transport/the ability to deep strike you will always need to run infiltrate as your mutable tactic to keep this list legal.

 

This is only partialy true.

You are corrrect about regular (non-jump) infantry definitely needing DT's to retain more flexibility in regards to Mutable Tactics.

Assault Squads though (or jump infantry in general) have the ability to Deep Strike, so they don't need DT's at all.

This is why contemporary CotH lists often run three Assault Squads for compulsory troop choices.

 

 

Now, onto the good Doctor's list:

 

First off, I firmly believe you got a fair smattering of raw firepower here, running an Arcus, a Fire Raptor, some Javelins, and extra guns on all your DT's.

 

Drop the power dagger on the chaplain. A power dagger is a specialist weapon and meant to supplement those. A power axe (crozius) is not.

Also, why the Chaplain ?

 

Do you have enough jump infantry models to run two Assault Squads maybe ? Like I mentioned above, they are the charm in CotH.

 

Get a DT for the Tactical Support Squad (for reasons Eternal Despair mentioned). Which you could, if you were running two Assault Squads, freeing up one Rhino from a Tac Squad.

 

The Proteus is awesome for reserve manipulation in a CotH list, I get it, no worries. Especially when combined with a Damocles and / or Alpharius.

So, maybe get a Damocles ? 

But if you only want it to transport some terminators, then get a Phobos instead.

 

Matter of factly, I'd do the following:

- Drop the Drakes.

- Either: get a unit of Seekers. A Proteus is a DT for them. CotH restrictions issue solved !

- Or: get some DA Interemptors for your 'Rewards of Treason' for more plasma dakka. Oh, by the way, these can also chose a Proteus for their DT ...

 

Hope this helps a little.


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Smile like Dynat when you're winning !


#4
The Dr

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I was under the assumption the second proteus could be used to transport the plasma squad allowing me to select any mutuable tactic still?

The dozer blades make sense but I didn’t think I’d be moving too much against the opponents but it would be handy to avoid being stuck.

I’ll play around with the list but my regular opponents are both highly aggressive assault lists so I figured building too much into assault squads may have been a mistake. Reason I looked at the prote for the firedrakes as I figured they’d be hanging back either waiting for the first turn drop or moving and getting out to accept the charge with the counter charge tactic. Perhaps wrong thinking on my part.

I did look at intremptors in the early life of this list but I was worried they were a lot more suicidal then the support already is. Never used seekers but would be keen to try and get them to work.

Apart from the firedrakes/transport for them it doesn’t sound like I was too far off so that’s promising bad I’ve been trying to build an alpha list on and off since heresy began so glad I’ve at least got close finally.

#5
The Dr

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Forgot to add the chaplain was to run with the assault squads to keep them from running. A little worried about martial hubris so was attempting to mitigate it somewhat

#6
Imren

Imren

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Happy new year!

So as I understand you want to build a stronger list with Alpharius and CotH RoW at 3000p to face a drop assault list and a day of rev list.

I suggest you play to the strenghts of our legion which is shooting.

The opponents you mention will be in your face early utilising reserves (drop assault). Which means you can manipulate their reserve rolls (to the worse) using Alpharius (and proteus). Also with good shooting combined with augury scanner will reduce the opponent upper hand when coming in from reservers with his pods close to your units (within 18").

So with the above remarks in mind, for a 3k CotH list with Alpharius that needs to be strong against strong oppents, I suggest the following (perhaps you were just asking for a tweak in your list, but I felt I rather give what really might help out against strong armies that come in fast against you):

Alpharius
1x Master of signal
1x Apothecary with augury scanner
1x Primus medicae in cataphractii
10x Siege tyrants
10x Volkite culverin HSS
3x Tactical squads (in rhinos if points allow)
2x or 3x of Javelins with missile launchers and multimelta
1x Primaris lightning strike fighter with 4 kraken penetrator missiles and ground tracking auguries
a few batteries of laser Rapiers (if points allow)
5x Skyslayer Scimitar bikes with volkite culverins (if points allow)

Put artificier armour on the sergeants were applicable to tank incoming small arms fire.


Gameplan:
As you probably already realised you will be forced to take infiltration as your mutable tactics each game for this list to be legal, but the list is tailored with that in mind and it is not necessarily a disadvantage.

Alpharius goes in the Siege tyrant unit giving them BS5, the Primus medicae goes with the Siege tyrants.

Master of signal and the apothecary goes with the Volkite HSS giving them BS5 and letting them fire against opponent's reserves coming in within 18" this is a much useful deterrent since this squad is quite vulnerable to be charged (the Master of signal D3 S8 pie plate(s) is/are an icing on the cake that can come in handy).

These two strong shooting units all hit on 2+ rerolling 1's to hit and to wound and have relativeley long range on their weapons. So all 20 krak missiles at S8 will hit from the tyrants and all 40 S6 volkite from the HSS will hit (I should say "most likely", but 2+ with rerolling 1's is pretty much a guarantee to hit). These two units you deploy in a smart place that have good field of view.

The laser rapiers you deploy according to the positioning of the opponent's dangerous vehicles if they have any, and pop them turn one.

You are likley to start turn one with Alpharius letting you seize the initiative on a 4+ rerollable (Alpharius + CotH). If you don't, you still have a turn of shooting as the enemy pods drop in before they charge.

I suggest you let the Javelins and the Scimitars deep strike after the opponents pods have landed so that you can easier anticipate where they will be needed and what firing arcs are most beneficial, these skimmers should be played quite evasive avoiding close combat and fight the enemy with their strong shooting further away from charging distance (think Wood elf glade riders from WHFB). If the opponent drop the pods farther away than 18" from the volkite squad, your skimmers might also get a round of shooting at the pod contents before the pod contents charge you.

The Primaris is there in case you face a Spartan with flare shield or other AV14 vehicles that needs popping with the Krakens, after that, it has earned its points and if it survives the twin linked lascannons with strafing run might do some more work too. Also it gives you some anti-air which is good to have at 3000p games (more likely to face flyers at higher point games).

Only the Primaris and the Javelins in this list lack Legiones astartes (AL) so those two units are the only ones that will not benefit from preferred enemy, but they both have strafing run (BS5) and only the krakens are not twin linked among these two units.

The Siege tyrants + Alpharius death star need no baby sitting against incoming CC units in drop pods, but one of the tacticals should be placed near the Volkite squad to help out in case their all-hitting-40-S6-volkite volley fail to kill the incoming unit that is aimed at them.

The two other tactical squads play the objectives if any.

So to summarize, you have an army of overwhelming shooting that either have preferred enemy or strafing run, (essentially BS5 either way) and from units that can position themselves according to opponents deployment and likely get at least one volley of 20x S8 krak missiles, together with 40x S6 volkite, all at BS5 with preferred enemy.

Keep in mind that Alpharius is most likely the weakest primarch in close combat. So try to avoid primarch one-on-ones. If you face a traditional primarch + terminator death star in a Spartan, then focus on popping the Spartan to slow down the their advance, hopefully you can weaken that unit with your strong shooting before it charges Alpharius and the siege tyrants.

As I mentioned, this list suggestion's purpose is to fight strong lists that come in fast in your face early game. It might be too powerful in some gaming groups, you can and should tone it down accordingly depending on your "meta". For example, ditch the scimitars and javelins and add a proteus with seekers or whatever. But it is built around the core of the two strong shooting units of Alpharius with Siege tyrants and HSS with Master of signal.

Keep in mind that the general spirit of 30k community (compared to 40k tournament savvy players and their community) is more about playing fluffier and nicer lists than slap your opponent silly with a strong chunk of cheese. But sometimes you need to fight cheese with cheese. And this list is for those (hopefully) rare occasions.


Edited by Imren, 03 January 2022 - 10:31 AM.

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