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Adeptus Custodes biggest weaknesses and nemesis opponents


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62 replies to this topic

#1
Captain Idaho

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I wanted to get a constructive topic up and running where we can theorise and put into practice our collected knowledge into our games, feeding that back to the community to fine tune our most effective play on the table.

The number one worry I think most of us have is dealing with tougher targets that have a -1 to damage. Dreadnoughts are usually quite low in number of wounds but a Redemptor or Contemptor could be quite the prickly customer, as could most other Dreadnoughts since we wound on a roll of a 4+ with Spears.

I consider, for these larger targets, Axes getting us to S8 means getting to the damage step on a 3+, but then the AP is poorer.

Slayer of Nightmares will enable us to get more wounds onto targets. Do so with as many attacks as possible since we are losing the benefit of Damage 2 anyway.

Salvo Launchers can be nice if you take multiple bikes, focus firing on the targets most difficult for us to take out.

Forge World units will do some work for us, since many have damage 3 or greater.

Seems like focusing on those targets the most likely to cause us trouble with what tools we have, like Obliteratum, a couple Salvo Launchers then grind out wounds on other stuff.

Any other threats and possible solutions, or requests for solutions, from the Custodes fans here?

Edited by Captain Idaho, 09 January 2022 - 09:26 PM.


#2
ApulianAbaddon

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My 2 cents:

- HQs are still in a good spot but I am not sure I am always gonna play CapBike like before. I want to try Trajan, TermiCap in Pretorian Plate, Knight Centura with relic flamer. Other good options to me are Captain with double stances upgrade, Captain with Advance+Charge and Blade Champion. Valerian seems a trap to me (transhuman isn't that good with R5 most of the time), Aleya would be nice except we don't have a good transport for Sisters, yet (hopefully Kharon will get implemented soon)

- Troops are in a good spot, especially with Stances. Also the cheap Sisters for actions and objectives. I am not sure Shields will see play, even with Light Cover Stendard since there is a lot of high AP around. I will have a check at updated Forgeworld for the trusted Sagittarii and maybe Melta Spears (see Bike points below)

- Elites, maybe the most competititve choices are single Allarus and Stendardiers. I was expecting a bit more from Allarus, heck they are the elite (terminators) of the elite (custodes) and now they are below Deatwing and Death Guard terminators. 

- Fast Attacks I think people are overstimating Bikes. Remember they lost Obsec and the Missiles are Heavy, so you are looking at 3+ with 1s rerollable to Hit and probably 3+ to Wound. Not that much if you need Knights and other big targets to go down. You get 6-9 missiles in most armies which aren't that much.

- Heavy I want to cry when I see Land Raiders.

 

Summarizing, I have a good impression after better looking at Shield Hosts especially and Stances then, but I see the army has many many weaknesses and will struggle against Lord of War targets. No damage 2+ weapons hurts againts these targets and Death Guard as well, and we don't have effective anti-tank weapons. 

 

I am looking forward to see updated Forgeworld rules to see if anti-tank duties can be still carried by MeltaSpears and Achilluses, and waiting to add up to 6 Aquilons to add a bit more of anti-chaff fire (Storm bolters) and more importantly Damage 3 Power fists


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#3
Captain Idaho

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Hate to quibble, but Jetbikes don't suffer a minute 1 to hit as only infantry are worried about Heavy ;)

We definitely have limited anti-tank weapons, which wouldn't be so bad if we had damage 3 melee!
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#4
L30n1d4s

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I think Custodian Guard with Pyrithite Spears might be key here, especially if the Spears count as Auric weapons (i.e. for the double shoot Ka'tah).

BS2+ Melta weapons can take down tanks, monsters, and thinks like DG Terminators pretty reliably, and compensate for the general lack of Dmg3+ in the army.


Also, as you mentioned, Salvo Launchers on Bike also make for a good option, especially with highly mobile Dmg3 + D3 shooting.

Finally, in melee, all of the Dreads are going to be pretty good, as well as Trajan and any tricked out Blade Champion using the Dmg3 "stance."

#5
ApulianAbaddon

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Well,I have 6 bikes and never used missiles lol.
Maybe I will give them a try.

What do you think of Shield Hosts? Seems all pretty good, just the Aquilan Shields seems a bit worse

#6
Charlo

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I think Custodian Guard with Pyrithite Spears might be key here, especially if the Spears count as Auric weapons (i.e. for the double shoot Ka'tah).

 

Came here to say this. Fingers crossed, because its a great upgrade.



#7
Captain Idaho

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The FAQ for Forge World Custodes units is likely being waiting on with baited breath. Auric weapons for many of the units will provide large bonuses. Could you imagine 5 Saggitarum Guard firing twice every turn thanks to Strategum support and Shield Captain giving them 2 turns of the same Ka'tah?

#8
Charlo

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I don't think Saggitarum guns will be Auric weapons, purely as they aren't a Melee weapon with an in-built gun which seems to be the rule.


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#9
OttoVonAwesome

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Shoot twice Saggittarum would be so op they'd become the only choice so I doubt they'll get Auric as well. Pyrithite and Adrasite on the other hand would be actually pretty usable for a change as they don't seem too worth it as they were.


Edited by OttoVonAwesome, 10 January 2022 - 05:19 AM.


#10
Galthan Ironsturm

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What do u think about Venatarii can advance and charge (shield host) and, fall back and shoot (strata) ?

And, if they can shoot twice with strata ?

I played 5 pyrithic Spears and Redemptors dreadnought don't like that...and they shoot once ^^

Auric weapons are combined weapons only ???
That i think.

Edited by Galthan Ironsturm, 10 January 2022 - 10:10 AM.


#11
Charlo

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Venetari pistols getting double exploding 6s will be hella cool though! From the Dread Host Warlord Trait

 

Being infantry, their stock is really going up in the new dex, especially with 4++ and 4+++!

 

Adrasite Spears could be something to look out for, flat 3D cares less for damage reduction into 2W units.


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#12
Captain Idaho

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All good ideas. Venetari in particular provides a faster moving element I'd quite enjoy.
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#13
GenerationTerrorist

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I'm quite looking forward to seeing how much of a Distraction Carnifex my pair of Melts Contemptors will now be in this edition.

Running them within Trajan's bubble, with 4 S&S Guardians and the +Cover Vexilla. Absorb all the firepower, whilst my Salvo Bikes fire back and my 4*Allarus drop in alongside Obliteratum Captain to wreck face.

40k:
- 2000pts Custodes (Dread Host)

- 2000pts Primaris Black Templars

- 1000pts Primaris Dark Angels (Ravenwing) - 2022 Project

 


#14
Captain Idaho

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Does the Vexilla work on Dreads too? If so... that's great!

#15
Galthan Ironsturm

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Contemptor is not "Core".

#16
Balerion84

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Contemptor is not "Core".

Actually they are CORE. Both FW Contemptors and the ugly GW one.
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#17
Captain Idaho

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There's something warm and inviting about 1+ armour save Dreadnoughts!

#18
Galthan Ironsturm

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Contemptor is not "Core".

Actually they are CORE. Both FW Contemptors and the ugly GW one.

OMG...i forget this ...
That à good new!^^

#19
Toldavf

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the new yncarne looks like a real problem for custards.


Psycannons were over powered, what your going through is what chaos went through after they lost the 4th edition book.


#20
Hellex_The_Thanatar

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We retain the weakness's to c'tan and the silent king.

Gaz might be a big problem depending on army comp.

Rumors of wraiths getting the -1 damage scare me soiled.

Mortarion and magnus remain very cost effective against us.

Bel'akor... Holy moly bel is a bastard.
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#21
Captain Idaho

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A big melee character shouldn't be as much of a problem for Custodes as other armies since we have a 4+ Invulnerable save and can use Arcane Genetic Alchemy to limit the amount of wounds causes. I've seen this used on the Nightbringer with mere Intercessors and it was fairly annoying.

Of course, the bigger problem is a combination of a melee beatstick and Psychic powers, so Sisters of Silence might be essential as a counter.

#22
Legionary Pallas

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I'm interested by the prospect of what Dread Host can do for our FW units. Venatari with buckler, Aquilons with talons, and Sags all benefit from the extra attack of Dacatari with no downside, and with an extra pip of AP. People have always underestimated the melee output of Sags and with misericordias apparently becoming free (in the field manual iirc?) opponents will be unwise to try and tangle with them at close quarters. Seems like a really good way to quell hordes which have often been a thorn in our sides.

If you prefer Dreadnought heavy builds or other vehicles, Emperor's Chosen with its rerolls sounds really good, especially for an Achillus with its spear shooting.

Edit: a Dread Host Aquilon with a Talon in stance 2 Dacatri and a misericordia is throwing out 7 attacks, 6 at S6 AP-3 D1 rerolling wounds, +1 misericordia stab with AP-3

Edited by Legionary Pallas, 12 January 2022 - 01:30 PM.

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#23
Subtleknife

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Doesnt Valerian counter characters like Gaz who have wound mitigation. I though he has a rule on his spear that meant wound mitigation shenanigans didnt apply or was the a rumour that didnt come to pass?

Edited by Subtleknife, 12 January 2022 - 04:44 PM.


#24
Legionary Pallas

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Doesnt Valerian counter characters like Gaz who have wound mitigation. I though he has a rule on his spear that meant wound mitigation shenanigans didnt apply or was the a rumour that didnt come to pass?


I believe from the wording it is more like FNP mitigation? It's not particularly clear, hopefully this gets an FAQ to clarify.

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#25
Subtleknife

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Ah fair one thanks for clearing it hope. Hopefully the FAQ comes down on the sides of being a Gaz killer.




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