Stormsurge discussion

[AenarIT]

Is that 330 base cost without guns, or total with guns?

Apparently with guns, but it's not set in stone.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I kinda agree with this. It’s scary firepower, but with the deletion of vehicle damage tables and thus the impossibility of crippling a unit in one shot I feel like weapons that used to be very potent (missiles, lascannons) lost a lot of potency starting with 8th edition. I’ve felt for awhile now that all of these powerful anti-tank weapons really needed to have their damage increased. Considered something like the modern day TOW and Javelin missile. They have the ability to completely destroy a modern tank. How much more powerful are weapons in 40k than these modern day anti-armor weapons?

 

I will be immensely sad is GW doesn’t follow suit with anti-armor weapons across all factions in the game. If damage output is rightfully raised it has the potential of making anti-armor focused infantry very potent, which they should be…

[Kain Mor]

So at T8 2+/4++ this is wildly tougher than a baneblade, has every chance of putting it on 2 wounds in a single round of shooting, and is 150-200 points cheaper.

 

Awesome! Love this so much!!!!!!!

[sairence]

So at T8 2+/4++ this is wildly tougher than a baneblade, has every chance of putting it on 2 wounds in a single round of shooting, and is 150-200 points cheaper.

 

Awesome! Love this so much!!!!!!!

In fairness, our Baneblades have been terribad and killable by everyone for ages. So you know...low-hanging fruit.

[Orange Knight]

 

 

Is that 330 base cost without guns, or total with guns?

Apparently with guns, but it's not set in stone.

It's almost comical to cosider that this far-superior weapons platform, that comes with a natural 4++ has been priced significantly cheaper than a Repulsor tank.

 

I apologised for bringing the Repulsor up again, I don't mean to sound like a broken record. It's simply clear to me that GW has priced all the Astartes vehicles far too conservatively, and I have little faith in them fixing the issue despite the existence of Chapter Approved.

[KnightofSigismund]

Fair. "Broken Bork'an", I'm coining the phrase right now.

 

[Kain Mor]

 

So at T8 2+/4++ this is wildly tougher than a baneblade, has every chance of putting it on 2 wounds in a single round of shooting, and is 150-200 points cheaper.

 

Awesome! Love this so much!!!!!!!

In fairness, our Baneblades have been terribad and killable by everyone for ages. So you know...low-hanging fruit.

[Petitioner's City]

Has there ever been a move to a mournival-/yaktribe-style b&c faq/errata/repointing of the game? It would be great if there was (or indeed multiple versions).

[Blurf]

I kinda agree with this. It’s scary firepower, but with the deletion of vehicle damage tables and thus the impossibility of crippling a unit in one shot I feel like weapons that used to be very potent (missiles, lascannons) lost a lot of potency starting with 8th edition. I’ve felt for awhile now that all of these powerful anti-tank weapons really needed to have their damage increased. Considered something like the modern day TOW and Javelin missile. They have the ability to completely destroy a modern tank. How much more powerful are weapons in 40k than these modern day anti-armor weapons?

 

I will be immensely sad is GW doesn’t follow suit with anti-armor weapons across all factions in the game. If damage output is rightfully raised it has the potential of making anti-armor focused infantry very potent, which they should be…

...? What are you talking about? Comparing real world weapons to weapons in a game that has to be...yunno...enjoyable doesn't make any sense.

 

And anti-tank weapons are, in general, far too good at what they do already. Taking a Rhino chassis vehicle is such a handicap at this point we should just start rolling to see if it explodes during deployment.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Blurf

[Orange Knight]

The problem with these new profiles is the low cost of the units they are attached to.

 

Now, it's entirely possible that by the end of 9th edition everything will function properly again, and all points and units will be competitive across all factions.

 

Unfortunately, until everything gets updated, units like the Storm Surge make the prospect of Guard armies, or Astartes Vehicles, or any kind of mmonste-heavy force to be deeply unappealing.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

The problem with these new profiles is the low cost of the units they are attached to.

 

Now, it's entirely possible that by the end of 9th edition everything will function properly again, and all points and units will be competitive across all factions.

 

Unfortunately, until everything gets updated, units like the Storm Surge make the prospect of Guard armies, or Astartes Vehicles, or any kind of mmonste-heavy force to be deeply unappealing.

 

I think they need to consider moving towards a system with a damage phase. There just too much alpha strike in the game with how overwhelming some of the damage is. Letting things get to go before they die would really help some of the expensive units, and in smaller games where some of this is going to be downright oppressive, player 2 at least gets a shot to do something.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Jorin Helm-splitter

[depthcharge12]

 

 

The main reason I'm labouring this point is because we're talking about a 24" range firing mode on a largely immobile unit that doesn't do anything fancy like ignore invulnerable saves or throw out bonus mortal wounds (as far as we know).

 

 

War of Sigmar claims to have seen the book and that there is a strat allowing you to ignore Inv, so you can get that covered.

 

Mortal Wounds, Ignore Invulnerable, pretty soon we will have an ability to make FNP saves go away too.

I wish we had a word for this…like it totally destroys stuff. Maybe Destroyering weapon profile? ;)

 

I don’t think we’ve seen this ever before…

[Evil Eye]

I'd like to say that not every Tau player will be taking the bloody thing and that we don't need to throw our Baneblades in the bin just because of a single unit that some easily avoidable meta-chasers will buy, assemble and then sell on eBay after the next hot thing rolls onto the Podium of Cheese_tm.

 

I'd LIKE to say that.

[Kastor Krieg]

Great googly moogly!!!

 

12 damage!?!? And its heavy 2!? That's potentially 24 damn damage!!!

 

Or 6 shots at 4 damage a piece at greater range... That's 24 damage.

 

These tau guns are funny haha

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

I kinda agree with this. It’s scary firepower, but with the deletion of vehicle damage tables and thus the impossibility of crippling a unit in one shot I feel like weapons that used to be very potent (missiles, lascannons) lost a lot of potency starting with 8th edition. I’ve felt for awhile now that all of these powerful anti-tank weapons really needed to have their damage increased. Considered something like the modern day TOW and Javelin missile. They have the ability to completely destroy a modern tank. How much more powerful are weapons in 40k than these modern day anti-armor weapons?

I will be immensely sad is GW doesn’t follow suit with anti-armor weapons across all factions in the game. If damage output is rightfully raised it has the potential of making anti-armor focused infantry very potent, which they should be…

 

...? What are you talking about? Comparing real world weapons to weapons in a game that has to be...yunno...enjoyable doesn't make any sense.

 

And anti-tank weapons are, in general, far too good at what they do already. Taking a Rhino chassis vehicle is such a handicap at this point we should just start rolling to see if it explodes during deployment.

I mean, if you bothered to do a little reading, context clues and reading comprehension should have demonstrated what I’m talking about. In past editions of this game anti-tank weapons were completely capable of destroying something like a Rhino with ease.. so what fantasy land are you living in?

 

There are weapons in the 41st millennium which should be strong enough to destroy a piece of armor outright in one shot. The fact that a real world example to demonstrate that a lascannon, a weapon much more formidable against armor than a javelin, should be able to destroy one outright caused you so much confusion is a little concerning to me. Maybe you would do better to play narrative games so that you can make whatever house rules you like so your rhino can survive an entire weapons volley from a Knight. You need your enjoyment, after all.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

In one of my swiftest and most devastating victories of 5th Edition, my first shot of the game was a Falcon's bright Lance destroying my friend's Space Wolf Land Raider with a single hit.

 

This is the Way.

[Plaguecaster]

Not like vehicles haven't been able to be one shotted every other edition no change this edition

If anything was nice being able to actually destroy vehicles with anti tank weapons like they are meant to just wish they would up the damage of other antitank weapons as so much stuff like lascannons or krak missiles are a joke dealing a measly d6 damage you know how annoying it is to shoot something with one of the few long rang anti tank weapons your army has access to only to deal a measly 1 damage whe you shoot a tank or walker

[MegaVolt87]

Not like vehicles haven't been able to be one shotted every other edition no change this edition

If anything was nice being able to actually destroy vehicles with anti tank weapons like they are meant to just wish they would up the damage of other antitank weapons as so much stuff like lascannons or krak missiles are a joke dealing a measly d6 damage you know how annoying it is to shoot something with one of the few long rang anti tank weapons your army has access to only to deal a measly 1 damage whe you shoot a tank or walker

 

Vehicles then were also far cheaper points wise and games were smaller at 1,500-1,750 points. If vehicles can be one shot, it stands to reason that their points should be vastly reduced as a result. It would be nice to see mech lists that don't have to sacrifice so many models to take transports and armoured units, instead of doubling down on yet more infantry. 

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

Not like vehicles haven't been able to be one shotted every other edition no change this edition

If anything was nice being able to actually destroy vehicles with anti tank weapons like they are meant to just wish they would up the damage of other antitank weapons as so much stuff like lascannons or krak missiles are a joke dealing a measly d6 damage you know how annoying it is to shoot something with one of the few long rang anti tank weapons your army has access to only to deal a measly 1 damage whe you shoot a tank or walker

 

 

Vehicles then were also far cheaper points wise and games were smaller at 1,500-1,750 points. If vehicles can be one shot, it stands to reason that their points should be vastly reduced as a result. It would be nice to see mech lists that don't have to sacrifice so many models to take transports and armoured units, instead of doubling down on yet more infantry.

Actually, I disagree.. back in those editions infantry did not present anywhere near as much of a threat to vehicles as they do in this edition. I still feel Infantry needs to do *more damage.* Mech lists wouldn’t have to “double down” on more infantry if the few infantry they took were potent enough to “handle their own.” In mech infantry lists transports provide 2 things, fire support and mobility. They don’t need to be impenetrable or invulnerable. Typically.. mech lists amplify the effectiveness of Infantry.. vehicles in Mech aren’t supposed to be the stars of the show.

 

I don’t think point price has anything to do with other than the fact that point cost could be more streamlined. Primaris has no equivalent to a Razorback which is a problem for Mech lists, as well.

[Seahawk]

 

 

 

The main reason I'm labouring this point is because we're talking about a 24" range firing mode on a largely immobile unit that doesn't do anything fancy like ignore invulnerable saves or throw out bonus mortal wounds (as far as we know).

 

 

War of Sigmar claims to have seen the book and that there is a strat allowing you to ignore Inv, so you can get that covered.

 

 

 

Mortal Wounds, Ignore Invulnerable, pretty soon we will have an ability to make FNP saves go away too.

 

 

What, you mean like this one? 

 

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

Not like vehicles haven't been able to be one shotted every other edition no change this edition

If anything was nice being able to actually destroy vehicles with anti tank weapons like they are meant to just wish they would up the damage of other antitank weapons as so much stuff like lascannons or krak missiles are a joke dealing a measly d6 damage you know how annoying it is to shoot something with one of the few long rang anti tank weapons your army has access to only to deal a measly 1 damage whe you shoot a tank or walker

 

Vehicles then were also far cheaper points wise and games were smaller at 1,500-1,750 points. If vehicles can be one shot, it stands to reason that their points should be vastly reduced as a result. It would be nice to see mech lists that don't have to sacrifice so many models to take transports and armoured units, instead of doubling down on yet more infantry.

Actually, I disagree.. back in those editions infantry did not present anywhere near as much of a threat to vehicles as they do in this edition. I still feel Infantry needs to do *more damage.* Mech lists wouldn’t have to “double down” on more infantry if the few infantry they took were potent enough to “handle their own.” In mech infantry lists transports provide 2 things, fire support and mobility. They don’t need to be impenetrable or invulnerable. Typically.. mech lists amplify the effectiveness of Infantry.. vehicles in Mech aren’t supposed to be the stars of the show.

 

I don’t think point price has anything to do with other than the fact that point cost could be more streamlined. Primaris has no equivalent to a Razorback which is a problem for Mech lists, as well.

 

 

Terminators, chosen and bezerkers were quite potent infantry component of mech lists for CSM, and mid range rhino rush plasma squads/ special stacked chosen were good mid board shooting units. Vehicles were the stars even in mech lists and its not a bad thing. HH today carries that tradition well, where vehicles are powerful and useful and infantry have a good backup role and effective still. There is no incentive to own anything but walkers as a 40k SM/ CSM player since 8th ed and thats not good. 

[Malakithe]

I want to know why my Gorkanaut is trash when stuff like this exists at all

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

  

 

Well that seems fun to play against with my new Custodes ha.

It will pickup a squad of Allarus per turn.

[eternal_warrior12]

I don’t like it but I do t have to like it. I’m glad the sight of big guns scares people. It should. I wish the splash of AoS were in 40k. Then we get really spicy.

[The Yncarne]

Maybe I'll get to enjoy using it once before the backlash is too strong. All my games to date has this model be a joke in game.