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Upcoming CA


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16 replies to this topic

#1
Trollbeard

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Hey guys with the new CA dropping in the next few weeks, I’m curious as to how GK will fair with updated costs. I can see NDKs and interceptors getting points hikes.

Personally I’m hoping terminators/paladins get a reduction.

Thoughts?

#2
Brother Kanan

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I think it’s reasonable to expect both those units to receive an increase however my hope is that in turn they reduce other units that don’t see play (like termies, paladins, some of the characters and vehicles) as they either need reductions or other strats/rules support to bring them in.

If all they do is hike points it just leads to shaving off a few models/equipment changes and the list stays the same

As someone who loves GK and will be sticking with them I’d love to see a fresh few list types being able to see play without kneecapping yourself at an event

#3
Prot

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If I'm being 100% fair, I'm leery of point hikes. Especially with the NDK's as they are a mainstay in a VERY limited codex. 

 

My fair tweak would be a cap on the amount of them. It's really more an issue of seeing 5, and 2 of them being HQ's.

 

Secondly, I'd suggest a point hike especially once something like Tau/Eldar (but it looks like Tau for sure) come out, this unit is going to have some difficulty performing nearly as well in that match up (I'm guessing here, but let's be honest, without a 4++ this unit is a big dreadnought.)

 

The Terminator based units need to become quite a bit more effective to see more play time. Ramping up costs of other units won't really fix this imho.


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#4
Mr4Minutes

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I’m in the same boat as Prot. With the revealed Tau weapons, the proliferation of -1 damage and what ever shenanigans Eldar get, I feel a point increase is going to hurt GKs competitively.

I actually kind of think, outside of terminator based units, things are pointed fairly accurately.

#5
librisrouge

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According to Warhammer-Community today, Dreadknights are going to be 10 points more. Kinda disappointed that terminators weren't mentioned.


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#6
Prot

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True, but we don't know for certain yet that they aren't reduced... just that they didn't feature them.

 

The NDK is a tolerable tweak. Like I said, it's about to go down in stature with Tau/Eldar for certain. And as said there's just not many dataslates in the codex to be fair. The PBC's (for comparison) going down show me GW may just be trying to push vehicles this CA. (They are in an overall terrible spot).


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#7
Karhedron

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I have to admit that I think Strike squads need to go up in price. They cost the same as Veteran Intercessors and have almost the same profile. But on top of that they get the following bonuses for free:
 

  1. Nemesis Force swords (functionally equivalent to a Master Crafted Power Sword)
  2. Storm bolters
  3. Deep Strike
  4. Troops, hence ObjSec

The NFS alone should be at least 5 points. Right now, armies that spam Strike Squads and Interceptors can flood the board with infantry that is more effective than most Marines while still having a couple of Dreadknights to deal with big threat.


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#8
Prot

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I have to admit that I think Strike squads need to go up in price. They cost the same as Veteran Intercessors and have almost the same profile. But on top of that they get the following bonuses for free:
 

  1. Nemesis Force swords (functionally equivalent to a Master Crafted Power Sword)
  2. Storm bolters
  3. Deep Strike
  4. Troops, hence ObjSec

The NFS alone should be at least 5 points. Right now, armies that spam Strike Squads and Interceptors can flood the board with infantry that is more effective than most Marines while still having a couple of Dreadknights to deal with big threat.

 

Personally I think Strikes are about right. I feel like marines are the problem. Interceptors though... that's the real meat of most competitive GK lists as far as infantry. Maybe the force weapons go up? I don't know really. This comes from me -playing- both factions. I still think this way because of the units and armies as a whole (dataslates, strats, etc).

 

Nerf strikes, NDK's, and we're getting dangerously close to being back to a bottom tier dex - especially with what's on the horizon.

 

Really it doesn't matter. Already a lot of the points posted from GW have me scratching my head. PBC's are probably the biggest one for me. (I play against them regularly). 

 

Here's my thinking on the big picture: You want to put GK into a strong, but acceptable competitive tier? Pull or adjust their secodary scoring. That right there is 15 points a game. The GK psychic phase is largely a red herring. The powers are largely locked, and I find it's very easy for me to skip those utility powers entirely. (Thousand Sons do not have this luxury). 

 

This is not a pro Thousand Sons post, but the comparison is valid. I can toss most of my psychic phase away with GK and farm objectives with the secondary. The worst case scenario is a match up with something like... Sisters which can shut it right down. If this happens to Thousand Sons it kills the army. GK can still get by.

 

That secondary scoring is the number one thing... however (and I didn't want to get into this...) you can't have the Psyker killing secondary be so darn good as well. Situational, but still a magic bullet (pun intended).

 

Again this is what I get playing all the above factions. Every codex has great, go to units. I think Strikes and NDK's should be largely untouched. Help out Termies, marine troops a bit, help out the other units in the GK codex.. man there are some horrid ones. You won't see them in tournaments on their own merit... the cost of a strike has little to do with it.


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#9
Tokugawa

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If rumor about fewer slots in patrol detachment and no mixed brotherhoods is true, it would cost more resources to put 5 NDK chassis into one list.

#10
casb1965

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If rumor about fewer slots in patrol detachment and no mixed brotherhoods is true, it would cost more resources to put 5 NDK chassis into one list.


If that happens the Battalion and 4 Dreadknights it is.
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#11
Skywrath

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This change hurts, a lot. But yeah, let's slap another restriction on top of the myriad other restrictions GK have in their codex, that regular marines don't have. Once the Dreadknights get their points hike as expected, then I expect more people to see the shine of the codex dissapear. 



#12
war009

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Was sent this by a friend 

 

https://old.reddit.c...tten_up_for_ya/

 

Grey Knights

Grandmaster in Nemesis Dreadknight 150-160 +10

Brotherhood Terminator 42-40 -2

Paladin 47-45 -2

Interceptor 26-24 +2

Nemesis Dreadknight 120-130 +10

 

if these true, we did expect the +10 pt increase on both GMNDK and NDK, and assumed interceptors would go up. 



#13
Prot

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I just saw a post saying all termies down 2 points. This works for me as I always take 5 Termies = 10 points saved -> deferred NDK cost. 

 

(I just personally believe the Termie troop should have been a much more attractive unit for GK. They're always in my lists.)


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#14
war009

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Or they off set interceptors increase

#15
Kervin40k

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So, what is the thought for the new mono-brotherhood build? Because I really think the changes to Psyic Interrogation give us a real edge, and deep strike with termies is nice for Retrieve data.  


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#16
Prot

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So, what is the thought for the new mono-brotherhood build? Because I really think the changes to Psyic Interrogation give us a real edge, and deep strike with termies is nice for Retrieve data.  

 

I guess this is the way.

 

I understand it but to be honest I think GK have a good, solid foundation and the Brotherhood mattered less with this army than most 'chapter' traits for traditional marines. However that being said.... some Brotherhoods will now rarely see play.

 

For instance, I played Wardmakers mixed in with something else (variable) because I face a lot of sisters, or just good denial armies. Now in this new era, I think that might be a bit too restrictive from the fun stuff, like enhancing vehicles, or more mortal wounds. I predict that the future competitive builds will err on the side of max damage. (Custodes really are a strong match up for GK apparently.)

 

Speaking of the big gold elephant in the room.... I did an article on my blog on how Grey Knights did at LVO 2022. It wasn't great, wasn't horrible but a few things became blatantly apparent:

 

- 4-6 Dreadknights made the army tick on a top competitive level.

- the point increases to GK are completely unnecessary. 

- other exceptionally unpopular units needed a real boost. (IE there is still zero reason to take Purgs, Termies, and a plethora of other units in the codex.)

- the golden elephant in the room that I saw repeatedly spank the faction was Custodes. It is not the be all , end all, but I saw this first hand a few times, and.... wait for it... this is before Custodes go DOWN in points and GK go UP in points. (and restrict Brotherhoods).

 

It's going to be interesting. This is why public outcry is something I despise GW reacting to. A change at a time is the way to go. Not this rug pull, which we know probably won't be revisited for a very long time if at all.

 

To add to the changes that are now in effect, this is all pre-Tau (which look to be a very hard match up for GK) and Eldar which are always very good at killing at marines.

 

It will be interesting to see the hardcore players adjusting to this. I think the army is still 'good' though, and it's not all downside. I just wish they would have held off on the nerfs, and helped some of those 'dead' dataslates.


Edited by Prot, 01 February 2022 - 03:44 PM.

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#17
Grand Master Asterius

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The balance slate in February offers a ray of hope, however thin that we get something interesting to help out the general nerfs.




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