OldWherewolf Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) Jarms48 is correct, I did this all wrong (my apologies gang!) I compared the GW App to Battlescribe, forgetting that Battlescribe auto-includes the points for some things, while the GW app does not. Looking at the GW app, it looks like we're actually getting a few points drops: Chimera now 65 from 75 Lord Commisar 35 from 40 Pask - 200 PPM from 220 LRBT: 140 from 155, hull & sponson weapons stayed the same Tank Commander 175 from 195, DC is still 5 points, for a total of 180, hull & sponson weapons stayed the same With 3 TCs, that's a 60 point drop to our list, 80 if you run Cadians with Pask. That's enough for a few sponson upgrades. The LRBT is still too over-costed (140 would be good with 2 sponsons and hull LC). So it's at least promising. If anything, it pays for an additional psyker for Psychic Barrier or Nightscroud. Edited January 23, 2022 by Brainpsyk Emperor Ming, Ldorte and 4CIN87 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 10pt drop for the russ is a joke and insulting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagramdude Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Where are you getting 10 pt drop? 155 to 140 is 15pt? Either way, tank commanders are the way to go and a 20pt decrease is wonderful news, esp w the updated 2+ save. And 65pt chimeras are attractive too, esp with access to Full Throttle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCC Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 This is great news! Anything on troop costs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 GW said 10pts on official website. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/20/four-of-the-biggest-points-changes-from-chapter-approved-2022/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 These changes don't feel like they'll do a great deal, but the option to add a few more things after point drops in is always nice. I think the Chimera change stands out the most, I will take a fresh look at them next list I'm crafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairence Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) I mean TCs down 20p instantly frees up 60p in most people's lists. That's not bad. I'm not sure 10p down will get the standard Russ there still...I think they're still more expensive than they used to be in 8th (was it 130p base?) and they were still a bit of a questionable choice then. Chimeras dropping further is nice, question is whether that's enough to compensate for giving up 2VP on Bring it Down again. If you brought a normal mechanised list with 3 TCs and 6 IS in Chimeras, you're up 120p now. Pask and LC...yeah okay, nice to have. Not sure it'll change much for their use. I find Pask to not offer enough for the extra cost. If he could take Gatekeeper he'd be in every tank list I bring. Guess you could give him a Demo for reliable damage, but then he's more of a pricey distraction unit. Wish the Exterminator/Vanquisher was worth taking...anyway, he's still only ranks behind normal TCs for me. The Lord Commissar is nice at the same price point as a CC, but he's too squishy to be a brawler so doesn't really have any synergy in most Guard lists. So a drop here is neat if you use him, but I don't see it convincing anyone to suddenly start taking him over other stuff. Edited January 21, 2022 by sairence Shamansky 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldWherewolf Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share Posted January 21, 2022 In the app, the Infantry Squads/Conscripts/Scions stayed the same points cost. The Tempestor Prime is unique, because we take them in separate patrols to get Scions buffs & orders. There's 2 problems with the Lord Commissar: Takes a slot away from a needed TC Does not have the ability to give orders The Lord Commissar is actually a cool model, and the leadership with Summary execution would give them a lot of play at 35PPM. But #1 is the same problem for the Primaris Psyker: as long as we're required to take TCs/Pask to compete, they're non-starters. This does open up The median damage for a LRBT (no orders) with a BC & HB is 2.5, mean of 3. That's 160 points to kill 1 model. Going to the DemoCannon, that's median/median 5.5 dmg, but still 2 2W models, but not enough to kill 1 T6 6W model on average. Plus, there's no orders for a normal LRBT, as the order is better spent on the TC. This does open up an option for an additional Scion squad or Astropath, which with the new Retrive Nachmund Data or EoaF it's cool, and it's a step in the right direction, but still not far enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) Very disappointing if that's all the changes Guard at 55 are too much, scions being same points as skittari isn't great I could rabble on about everything else that needs a drop but I cant be bothered Edited January 21, 2022 by Emperor Ming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pounder Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Any idea if Forgeworld stuff will have any changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Legionnare Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) Any idea if Forgeworld stuff will have any changes? Us Kriegy boys are likely still in the cold for a while on that front. Might not be unheard of them to modify them as part of the CA, but I would assume "no" given that the macharius vanquisher has had what I assume is the "new vanquisher" statline throughout 9th, and points to reflect that. (Too expensive, imo, but still.) I expect FW updates to guard goodies won't come until the guard dex itself, does. Hopefully I'm wrong! Edited January 21, 2022 by Dark Legionnare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagramdude Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 No more mixed regiments is a big nerf IMO. Tank commanders get cheaper but you can’t put them in a gunnery/spotter detachment unless you want your entire army in that regiment. Fortunately it looks like you can still ally in scions since they don’t use <REGIMENT> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairence Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 To be fair, the strats Cadians have access to now have largely made them the better if you want to talk competitively. And if it means a bit less DE nonsense, only GMNDK and less Ork-silliness I think it's an okay trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicMike0708 Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 To be fair, the strats Cadians have access to now have largely made them the better if you want to talk competitively. And if it means a bit less DE nonsense, only GMNDK and less Ork-silliness I think it's an okay trade. It’s still the tail wagging the dog. Because tournament players like to min/max and soup and find and exploit broken combos guard have lost: -Large thematic groups of massed <insert unit here> to the rule of 3 -The ability to take aircav thanks to an aircraft cap that degrades a fun and intended build -the ability to take multiple differing regiments that have been a feature of the guard since second edition While I am all for fairer play, and the eternal striving for balance, there were lots of fun, thematic and fluffy lists that are negatively impacted that weren’t top tier or game breaking. It seems that as 9th progresses guard builds will look more and more bland, which is silly for a force that is supposed to encompass all the disparate worlds of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarms48 Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 (edited) Pretty sure all of these are wrong. - The Chimera is 65 points but you have to pay 10 for a hull HB or HF. - Lord Commissar is 35 points, but you have to pay 5 for the mandatory power sword. - Pask is 200 currently. You have to pay 15 for a hull HB or HF, then 5 for a BC or DC. So no change there. - Pretty sure the Leman Russ and TC are the same as Pask. Gotta pay 15 for HB or HF. Edited January 22, 2022 by jarms48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagramdude Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 Are these all based on rumors and articles or is there a leaked points sheet somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldWherewolf Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 Jarms48 is correct, I did this all wrong (my apologies gang!) I compared the GW App to Battlescribe, forgetting that Battlescribe auto-includes the points for some things, while the GW app does not. -BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairence Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 No worries, it happens. And it gave us a moment of hope before we realised what was actually changed. TCC 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarms48 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 No worries, it happens. And it gave us a moment of hope before we realised what was actually changed. For the record Leman Russ -10p Manticore +10p Deathstrike -20 or 30p Nothing that is really going to make any notable difference whatsoever. Except having to find an extra 20p. Banewolf also went down 10 from memory. This whole MFM was a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Mor Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 That’s pathetic. Really goes to show that they just look at what units show up (nerf the manticore) and not address army strength, because guard are in the absolute toilet outside of Cadian gimmicks and to raise the cost on any units in an army in this state is just rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Honestly, I was expecting a raft of decreases for the guard Instead we got a increase on the manticore I guess the guard isn't struggling as much as necrons and will the guard even get a dex before the next CA Doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagramdude Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Deathstrike lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 This is one of the advantages of expecting nothing... :P Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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